A clean out is not the answer

[Kez]

It’s not a stretch at all. They are under performing because they are playing off the back of nothing.
Too much sideways is because there is nothing to play with in front so it is dish off to the guy next to you.
There is a reason why the best teams have good 9s.

according to stats, Croker has run 5 times this year for 35 metres. If you don’t think that puts pressure on the rest of the team, you need your head checked.
Not only that, when he isn’t running, it’s not as if he is engaging markers, he is literally passing the ball off the ground. There is no shape to anything he is doing.

I have also seen a play book, as in ‘set plays’ and pretty much everything and I mean everything is about holding up defenders to create space somewhere else. The entire modern game relies on it.
You watch all teams, even when they ruck it out one off deep in their own end, they’ll use a decoy runner before passing deep to a winger to take a hit up. Point is, if we aren’t engaging defenders in the middle of the field, you can bet we aren’t causing the edges any concerns.

Then isnt it des's job to come up with a solution better than croker..he had all last season and off season to prepare for this yr..i was saying for ages sign daryl clarke..oh and guess what titans are signing him..what did des do to prepare for the fainu problem..absolutely nothing..thats failure

 

[Kez]

What we need to do Chip is select players in their correct positions where they play to their strengths. Walker is our best centre & thats where he should be. We don’t have a winger or centre that can play FB so Koula should be there. Croker & Cust are not hookers so Birt should be there. Instead of disrupting team cohesion by selecting players out of position all we needed to do was select the above players. It couldn’t be any worse to what we have now. Yes injuries can play havoc but again we have the cattle to select players in the positions they belong in. Due to injury / stood down:
Koula
Saab
Walker
Suli
Garrick
Foran
DCE
Paseka
Birt
Marty
Gosiewski
Jake
Schuster
Res: Cust, Aloiai, Keppie, Sipley

I honestly believe this team would have / could have won the first 3 games & would give the Panthers a good run for their money....if not beat them.

Maybe without jetski he is useless

 

[Franko]

We have no backup fullback or backup nine what the fmhqve we been doing.

if these positions are so important why the f haven’t we recruited a solid backup...

the top teams have reliable backups to key positions

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Croker looked very pedestrian at five eight a fair while back and seemed to have no vision beyond the end of his nose but shortly before he was injured , I noticed he gained confidence and looked pretty handy. As a hooker he once again looks to lack any sort of vision and is playing very pedestrian footy. Hopefully he can shake off the shackles and show why Des is sticking by him but I won't be holding my breath.

Why we extended him AND why we didn’t sign a recognised number 9 for this year is beyond my ability to calculate.

 

[KaZa]

Also why didn't we ship taupau out and keep AFB? Pay him the extra. We've lost alot going forward. Yet we keep the older one who's on the decline.

 

[Kevinward777]

Also why didn't we ship taupau out and keep AFB? Pay him the extra. We've lost alot going forward. Yet we keep the older one who's on the decline.

Because he didn't want to be here. We freed some cap space and signed a good player as a replacement. Prop is not a problem for us right now anyway. It's not where we are losing the game.

 

[anthonyb1965]

Why we extended him AND why we didn’t sign a recognised number 9 for this year is beyond by ability to calculate.

Isn’t Des not allowed near the hiring/retention books?

 

[robbiea]

Maybe without jetski he is useless

Go to the www.seaeagles.com.au/teams and take a look at our second rower stocks in the 30.Out of our four second rowers ,He is the only one available .Sironen,Davey,Olakatau all out. He also is playing injured ,but we have our hands tied .
I dont want to list him in my 17 sides either ,but he is all we have unfortunately.

 

[Wombat64]

Phil "the buzz" Ratfield

LOWLIGHT

Canterbury and Manly. Seriously, how can these two outfits be spending a combined $18 million on their salary caps with the rubbish they are producing. Both clubs are paying the penalty for appalling list management in recent years.

 

[Wombat64]

Scott Penn in SMH today ....

“We’ve definitely got the squad to be competitive. There’s no doubting we have the talent. We’ve got some phenomenal juniors coming through the system too. We couldn’t be prouder of how they’re playing at the moment.

Someone is smoking the crack pipe....

 

[wombatgc]

Scott Penn in SMH today ....

“We’ve definitely got the squad to be competitive. There’s no doubting we have the talent. We’ve got some phenomenal juniors coming through the system too. We couldn’t be prouder of how they’re playing at the moment.

Someone is smoking the crack pipe....

I’m hoping he’s talking about our SGBall squad.

 

[Disco]

Lol some outrageous comments. Your obviously extremely close to the playing group and staff( staff member? Or volunteer). I get your trying to protect them but your actually doing the opposite. There MUST be accountability, and at the moment there is none. The moment everyone admits there is a problem is the moment you will start to fix it!!

DCE has never been and never will be worth anywhere near 1.2 fuking mil. And just to be clear, no one gives a fuk how he plays for Qld. Reynolds gets 500 to 600k from south and destroys Moneyevans in every aspect of rugby league.

JetSki is going nowhere near Soo.Ever

Lol Parker best defensive centre in the comp? Wow, only in under 16s

To be fair, I do like Aloiai and Tent has potential.

And we don’t need “A Win”, we need a winning season. 12-15 wins in the season. Only then will the pressure be off..

Seriously wake the fuk up

Firstly, Snake was giving outrageous examples of the type of nonsense that can get sprouted on this forum at times. Not claiming those things himself so take a deep breath.

Secondly he is right, this forum is kneejerk and it makes sense, often those who spend a lot of time on team forums are your most obsessed fans who take losses the hardest.

People don't seem to see beyond the immediate present.

Your Reynolds comment is case in point. His reported salary is above 800k and whilst he is a good player his peak form does not surpass DCE's peak form.....and there is the rub. We are talking form yet so often here people talk in broad sweeping statements like "destroys Moneyevans in every aspect of rugby league"

Plonk Reynolds into this team with Walker, Foran and Croker and place DCE next to Mitchell, Walker and Cook and I suggest we would see a swing in form in both players.

And this is not to be sympathetic to DCE, his form is awful this season and whilst there are mitigating factors he still should be guiding us around the park and providing a cool head and he is not.....so he needs to pick it up.

But there is still a player there that when in form....I repeat, in form is the the top 2 halfbacks in the league.

 

[Kez]

Firstly, Snake was giving outrageous examples of the type of nonsense that can get sprouted on this forum at times. Not claiming those things himself so take a deep breath.

Secondly he is right, this forum is kneejerk and it makes sense, often those who spend a lot of time on team forums are your most obsessed fans who take losses the hardest.

People don't seem to see beyond the immediate present.

Your Reynolds comment is case in point. His reported salary is above 800k and whilst he is a good player his peak form does not surpass DCE's peak form.....and there is the rub. We are talking form yet so often here people talk in broad sweeping statements like "destroys Moneyevans in every aspect of rugby league"

Plonk Reynolds into this team with Walker, Foran and Croker and place DCE next to Mitchell, Walker and Cook and I suggest we would see a swing in form in both players.

And this is not to be sympathetic to DCE, his form is awful this season and whilst there are mitigating factors he still should be guiding us around the park and providing a cool head and he is not.....so he needs to pick it up.

But there is still a player there that when in form....I repeat, in form is the the top 2 halfbacks in the league.

Dce is over rated over paid and apart from his rookie yr with all the greats around him he has done stuff all for our club apart from create divide

 

[Kez]

And even if he kicks the winning field goal on thursday i wont change my mind about him..we need a leader who is consistent

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

I've watched enough RL to know that clean outs don't work. Neither does sacking a coach.

Trench Robinson coached his side full of stars to a 15th place finish in 2016. He has won 3 premierships. Shane Flanagan has won spoons and a premiership. Brad Arthur keeps making the finals in spite of winning a spoon with the Eels. The Dogs have gone on a signing spree and haven't fired a shot with the alleged 'attacking genius' behind Penrith's GF appearance last year. There is enough anecdotal evidence to suggest that a 'black and white' approach to running a club does not guarantee success, nor does it mean failure. There are too many shades of grey to simply approach things from a 'we are failing' so lets sack everyone and everything will be better tomorrow.

Blooding rookies, moving players into different positions, getting rid of stock, etc. is not going to change things. The problems we are having concern so many variables that one solution is not going to change overnight. This same squad can turn it around. Des can turn it around. This sort of thing happens in RL all the time.

Take a guy like DCE for example. He hasn't suddenly forgotten how to play RL. He captained QLD to a series win last year and played really well. The reason he is struggling and the reason our attack is faltering is because we have no 9. There is absolutely nothing for DCE or Foz to play off the back of at the moment, hence they look ordinary. We need deception around the ruck to hold up markers and generate quick play-the-balls, then you'll see DCE and Foz run into some form. Backrowers are also going to look pretty ordinary because they too require ruck speed to punch into holes off the halves on the edges. At the moment, there are no holes. The flow on effect is the errors and forced passes and desperate plays because things just aren't clicking in the middle. Then the confidence crisis kicks in and you just keep finding ways to shoot yourself in the foot.

To compound things, we have no Tom. He will be back though. If we had Manase, we'd be doing better in the middle. Maybe Lawton will help improve things around the ruck. There is hope. I've even seen Parker play well when things are going our way. He is no world beater but he can hold his own on a good day. Those good days will come again. We are just a team down on confidence and down on players in key positions and the flow on effect of that is evident in the first three weeks of our season.

Keep the faith.

agree totally and the people wanting a cleanout are basing their "want" on the right players being available at the right prices. I see people saying they want Gutherson and Radley and bla bla bla....... well we are not any hope of getting those players because they are happy where they are... and we would have to pay overs to get them.... because everyone will want them. Those also saying we get rid of DCE/Turbo/Jurbo because of their contracts are also seriously deluded.... just where are they getting the high quality replacements that lead us to a Premiership and get them on small contracts. Look at the teams without a great spine - struggling.... And you people want to get rid of two more of the spine. No idea! Just like last year when we lost 3 of our spine - this year we don't have 50% of that spine. Sure I think Des can wear some criticism for not replacing Fainu - that was a fatal mistake but where do you find a great replacement for Turbo - cheap as chips? You all moaned and complained about Elliott. I always said he was a very very serviceable backup which he is and I bet we would all love to have him now and Walker back at Centre. Some of you need to stop dreaming. There is a salary cap in play. This is just the second year of the new rules and I am guessing that contracts signed before the new rules are hamstringing us. You cant just get out of those contracts without losing salary cap and without someone else being available and again at the right price. Some clubs with Sombrero Salary caps are ok - we are not one of those. Now do we have to make changes and get faster - absolutely. Do we need to groom a replacement for DCE - absolutely. We have a million youngsters coming through and it might... I say might be a great platform to build off if they all realise their talent against men instead of boys. Has Des made some mistakes in my view with selections - yes... but that is why I am sitting here on my keyboard like the rest of you...... I just have this feeling Des knows a bit more than I do! You can't just wave a magic wand and Des' loyalty I think has also stung him in the arse. He will dig us out might not be this year but I have faith.

 

[Pete W]

agree totally and the people wanting a cleanout are basing their "want" on the right players being available at the right prices. I see people saying they want Gutherson and Radley and bla bla bla....... well we are not any hope of getting those players because they are happy where they are... and we would have to pay overs to get them.... because everyone will want them. Those also saying we get rid of DCE/Turbo/Jurbo because of their contracts are also seriously deluded.... just where are they getting the high quality replacements that lead us to a Premiership and get them on small contracts. Look at the teams without a great spine - struggling.... And you people want to get rid of two more of the spine. No idea! Just like last year when we lost 3 of our spine - this year we don't have 50% of that spine. Sure I think Des can wear some criticism for not replacing Fainu - that was a fatal mistake but where do you find a great replacement for Turbo - cheap as chips? You all moaned and complained about Elliott. I always said he was a very very serviceable backup which he is and I bet we would all love to have him now and Walker back at fullback. Some of you need to stop dreaming. There is a salary cap in play. This is just the second year of the new rules and I am guessing that contracts signed before the new rules are hamstringing us. You cant just get out of those contracts without losing salary cap and without someone else being available and again at the right price. Some clubs with Sombrero Salary caps are ok - we not one of those. Now do we have to make changes and get faster - absolutely. Do we need to groom a replacement for DCE - absolutely. We have a million youngsters coming through and it might... I say might be a great platform to build off if they all realise their talent against men instead of boys. Has Des made some mistakes in my view with selections - yes... but that is why I am sitting here on my keyboard like the rest of you...... I just have this feeling Des knows a bit more than I do! You can't just wave a magic wand and Des' loyalty I think has also stung him in the arse. He will dig us out might not be this year but I have faith.

Having said that, a more balanced and dynamic roster is very achievable. At the end of this year, if we, for example, didn't re-sign Walker, Sironen, Gosiewski, Parker, Funa, Garrick, Croker, Boyle, Taufua (who are all off-contract) - we already have 2.5M to spend. Players off-contract at other clubs include Hynes, Aekins, Su'A, Finucane, Brown, Braiden Burns, Billy Smith, Ikuvalu, Hutchison, Talakei, etc - players that could be easily recruited. And this is not considering the possibility of an early release of someone like Taupau. So, not really "deluded" for Manly members in wanting an upgrade in skill and athletic ability

 

[Tragic Eagle]

Frankly it been a long long wait and we can’t afford another 2 years of this garbage.

 

[Pete W]

I've watched enough RL to know that clean outs don't work. Neither does sacking a coach.

Trench Robinson coached his side full of stars to a 15th place finish in 2016. He has won 3 premierships. Shane Flanagan has won spoons and a premiership. Brad Arthur keeps making the finals in spite of winning a spoon with the Eels. The Dogs have gone on a signing spree and haven't fired a shot with the alleged 'attacking genius' behind Penrith's GF appearance last year. There is enough anecdotal evidence to suggest that a 'black and white' approach to running a club does not guarantee success, nor does it mean failure. There are too many shades of grey to simply approach things from a 'we are failing' so lets sack everyone and everything will be better tomorrow.

Blooding rookies, moving players into different positions, getting rid of stock, etc. is not going to change things. The problems we are having concern so many variables that one solution is not going to change overnight. This same squad can turn it around. Des can turn it around. This sort of thing happens in RL all the time.

Take a guy like DCE for example. He hasn't suddenly forgotten how to play RL. He captained QLD to a series win last year and played really well. The reason he is struggling and the reason our attack is faltering is because we have no 9. There is absolutely nothing for DCE or Foz to play off the back of at the moment, hence they look ordinary. We need deception around the ruck to hold up markers and generate quick play-the-balls, then you'll see DCE and Foz run into some form. Backrowers are also going to look pretty ordinary because they too require ruck speed to punch into holes off the halves on the edges. At the moment, there are no holes. The flow on effect is the errors and forced passes and desperate plays because things just aren't clicking in the middle. Then the confidence crisis kicks in and you just keep finding ways to shoot yourself in the foot.

To compound things, we have no Tom. He will be back though. If we had Manase, we'd be doing better in the middle. Maybe Lawton will help improve things around the ruck. There is hope. I've even seen Parker play well when things are going our way. He is no world beater but he can hold his own on a good day. Those good days will come again. We are just a team down on confidence and down on players in key positions and the flow on effect of that is evident in the first three weeks of our season.

Keep the faith.

Ask the Roosters if cleanouts work? If done astutely, and by 'cleanout', we are essentially talking about the recruitment of 4-5 top tier players who walk into your starting 17, then I really don't see how this is not the solution for the next 2-3 seasons

 

[Pete W]

You'd have Fainu on the bench behind Lawton?

Lawton to tackle his backside off for first 20.. Fainu to come on and tear open their line. I like it

 

[Disco]

Dce is over rated over paid and apart from his rookie yr with all the greats around him he has done stuff all for our club apart from create divide

Overpaid, yes, but that is our fault as a club......we had him agreed for 850k...ish. Then stuffed around with internal bickering and chasing an obviously leaving Foran and let him sign with the Titans.

Then we had to return with our tail in between our legs and we overpaid.

An absolute cl*ster**** but 6 years ago so not sure what complaining about it every week will achieve.

We screwed the pooch with that whole process.

Overrated, well overrated and underrated are subjective terms based on on what you "perceive" them to be rated as.

I wont squabble on that front, what I will say is I do believe when on song DCE is in the top 2 halfbacks in the league in a league that is currently quite weak for playmaking talent.

He is still in terrible form though