The Kieran Forum

[HK_Eagle]

The only thing sadder than tonight’s loss is remembering that the best competitor we have at the club, will be moving on at the end of the year.

But as long as we can keep those once a year golden point field goals and a pretty well-presented face to the media, everyone’s fooled happy.

 

[MW66]

Foran's effort last night in both attack and defence last night was 100%. everything he did was with effort and passion. What you also see at the game is he is in players ears constantly after a good effort or mistake willing them along. Our halves next year are DCE and Schuster. I am worried.

 

[Technical Coach]

Just in case it wasn't obvious, my comment above about how your credibilty on this topic couldn't be harmed by anything further you add - was because you have none, lol.

Because absolutely no-one who was actually following Manly back then would say Foran left Manly because he was chasing more money. It was an open secret he was unhappy with Gift leaving, the 'old crew' being split up, Des had gone, Brad Arthur was promising a new dawn at the Eels. Yes he signed for a motza but that is not why he left Manly.

DCE wasn't in that old crew, he was given an offer he later said he was proposing to accept (although you know he was lying because you are an accredited expert on the psychology of neck tattoos), but that offer was withdrawn when Perry was sacked and an inferior offer put to him. So yes he did 'want more money' from Manly that they were now offering, he wanted what they initially offered before they decided that they needed Foran more and wanted that money to give to Foran. The 2 negotiations were very much tied up together, DCE was rightly or wrongly miffed and slighted to be told he was no longer such a priority, cafe-gate (thanks to Ryan) showed how wrong the club had got it, the horse they backed had already bolted but they were too blind to notice. The club then pulled DCE's offer completely when didn't accept the lower deal, then he signed with Titans (with a long cooling off period) and then (and only then) did Foran say actually i'm off too, to Brad and the Eels.

Anyhow none of this matters much, I simply find your assertion that DCE was clearly lying about proposing to accept the 1st Manly deal to be foolish enough to warrant a response. I confess I like some of your technical insights, your pop psychology though really sucks.

I'm fully aware of Forans other reasons for leaving but i very much doubt he would leave for less either. Why do you think Foran and DCE prolonged the negotiation process and drag it out, it was to use Manly as a bargaining chip "for more money" which is fine, this is what i am saying.

I remember reading reports that both players were offered the same deal under the previous managament so there was no "priority" initially under the previous regime that supposedly offered the higher amount.

DCE already had the runs on the board with his original upgrade request issues after his first year and the way it left a bad impression on him and his manager along with the senior players being miffed.

Fine if DCE was "proposing to accept" did he mention anything about a "letter of intent" to back up his statement or do we "have to take him for his word", the onus is on him to back that statement up since he is the one that made it.(words mean nothing when it is done after signing what was probably a bigger deal than the original "proposing to sign" happy one)

Money wasn't the only reason but to drag the process on means money was one of the main reasons.

To head off to the Titans, of all clubs that was a basket case when Cronulla was in the chase also suggests Money was a major factor in his decision. You don't make a huge lifestyle pack up and go decision like that for a basketcase club if the contract was only competitive with Cronulla and Manly's offerings, the living "closer to family" reason that could be given obviously wasn't really a huge tug at the heart strings factor since Manly offering more changed his heart again.

When you make a handshake deal that the Titans believed was pretty much a done deal means you no longer can use the "proposing to sign" soften the blow excuse in the aftermath because your words and actions mean nothing after that.

I don't have a problem with what DCE did(some of his actions i admire for not caring what others think and doing the best for his family and future---that he was willing to take the media blows for improving the life for his family) but for fans to continously say "DCE never wanted to leave" is stretching it big time.

Fans want the feel good headlines but it mostly boils down to money, if anything Foran was less about the money than DCE but money was still the major factor in drawing out the process and placing Manly in a dire predicament second guessing themselves.

Also when DCE was interviewed he mentioned something along the lines of "the revised lower offer under the new management narrowed down his decision making from 3 clubs to 2", so the "never wanted to leave" fans view doesn't fall in line with that either.

Yes i know most contract negotiations will have competing offers on the table but that is also why i would never say a player "never wanted to leave" because entertaining other deals is one sign of wanting to explore.(yeah yeah we all have to see our "market value" reasoning also)

 

[Technical Coach]

Hmm speculation upon speculation……I guess we believe what we want to believe…

Ok fine prove to me the fans view of "never wanting to leave" feel good headline holds up.
1)A letter of intent(yes they are weak as piss but it shows some proof of wanting to stay)
2)That DCE never entertained other offers even during the "proposing to sign deal" period
3)That DCE returned to the club on the same amount and offer that he was originally happy to sign on for.
4)That DCE in some form made the Titans aware that if Manly comes back with an offer that is competitive that he will return to his old club during this cooling down period.

My issues have nothing to do with how DCE acted, DCE was more than willing to take the obvious future blows from the media and fans all for the betterment of his family, something a wife and family will always admire.(in other words do what is best for your family above all else)

I'm also not entirely against DCE fighting for an upgrade in his first season, takes balls to do that,the average years of an NRL player are not very long so you have to make the most of your limited time and look after yourself.

At the same time the senior players were trying to keep a team together and taking less already for continued success which is the good side, the bad side is it is also unfair of the senior players to pressure a young player to hold off looking after yourself financially and "your time will come" mentality knowing full well the NRL average playing span is only a few years.

 

[Snake]

Foran's effort last night in both attack and defence last night was 100%. everything he did was with effort and passion. What you also see at the game is he is in players ears constantly after a good effort or mistake willing them along. Our halves next year are DCE and Schuster. I am worried.

Absolute legend. The chase on Holmes was all heart. I’d trade anyone in the roster to just keep him for one more year. Even Turbo. I don’t care about flashy and talented...I love effort and competitiveness. You can tell he is the last remaining member of the close knit group from the decade of dominance...he plays like Gifty, Matai, Snake, Choc and co.

 

[ricardo]

Keiran, so good. Thanks for the memories!

 

[BOZO]

The only thing sadder than tonight’s loss is remembering that the best competitor we have at the club, will be moving on at the end of the year.

The best competitor perspective

Foz has recently been competing very well and I hope his good form and his injury free run continues

But player form and performance changes week to week and so does the Silvertails MVP best competitor .

If we go back to silvertails posts earlier on this season Forans reviews on here were not that flattering

 

[Technical Coach]

Just in case it wasn't obvious, my comment above about how your credibilty on this topic couldn't be harmed by anything further you add - was because you have none, lol.

Because absolutely no-one who was actually following Manly back then would say Foran left Manly because he was chasing more money. It was an open secret he was unhappy with Gift leaving, the 'old crew' being split up, Des had gone, Brad Arthur was promising a new dawn at the Eels. Yes he signed for a motza but that is not why he left Manly.

DCE wasn't in that old crew, he was given an offer he later said he was proposing to accept (although you know he was lying because you are an accredited expert on the psychology of neck tattoos), but that offer was withdrawn when Perry was sacked and an inferior offer put to him. So yes he did 'want more money' from Manly that they were now offering, he wanted what they initially offered before they decided that they needed Foran more and wanted that money to give to Foran. The 2 negotiations were very much tied up together, DCE was rightly or wrongly miffed and slighted to be told he was no longer such a priority, cafe-gate (thanks to Ryan) showed how wrong the club had got it, the horse they backed had already bolted but they were too blind to notice. The club then pulled DCE's offer completely when didn't accept the lower deal, then he signed with Titans (with a long cooling off period) and then (and only then) did Foran say actually i'm off too, to Brad and the Eels.

Anyhow none of this matters much, I simply find your assertion that DCE was clearly lying about proposing to accept the 1st Manly deal to be foolish enough to warrant a response. I confess I like some of your technical insights, your pop psychology though really sucks.

Why do you think i care about credibility in your eyes, you are placing yourself on way too high a pedestal that is for sure.

Psychology has served me very well so far in my life, mind you tattoos makes it much easier to filter people also this day and age.

 

[Snake]

The best competitor perspective

Foz has recently been competing very well and I hope his good form and his injury free run continues

But player form and performance changes week to week and so does the Silvertails MVP best competitor .

If we go back to silvertails posts earlier on this season Forans reviews on here were not that flattering

You know when you talk about what a great club we are and the passion for Manly and everything we stand for? Its physical embodiment is Kieran Foran.

 

[BOZO]

You know when you talk about what a great club we are and the passion for Manly and everything we stand for? It’s physical embodiment is Kieran Foran.

All our players last night played with that Manly great passion

We did not lose last nights game through lack of passion

 

[Budgie]

Foran's effort last night in both attack and defence last night was 100%. everything he did was with effort and passion. What you also see at the game is he is in players ears constantly

That includes DCE's ear, though he may be a little deaf.

 

[Budgie]

The best competitor perspective

Foz has recently been competing very well and I hope his good form and his injury free run continues

But player form and performance changes week to week and so does the Silvertails MVP best competitor .

If we go back to silvertails posts earlier on this season Forans reviews on here were not that flattering

Perspective time.
You promised us last night you were taking a week away from here

 

[BOZO]

Perspective time.
You promised us last night you were taking a week away from here

I never promised
I never used the word promise
I posted how I felt after that devastating loss
I am still devastated .... Have a great day

 

[ricardo]

I never promised
I never used the word promise
I posted how I felt after that devastating loss
I am still devastated .... Have a great day

Good to have you back mate.

 

[BOZO]

Good to have you back mate.

Better to celebrate a win with feathered friends

and better to cry with them after a loss

 

[Pittwater Legend]

Perspective time.
You promised us last night you were taking a week away from here

Haha too good

 

[Red Pill]

Ok fine prove to me the fans view of "never wanting to leave" feel good headline holds up.
1)A letter of intent(yes they are weak as piss but it shows some proof of wanting to stay)
2)That DCE never entertained other offers even during the "proposing to sign deal" period
3)That DCE returned to the club on the same amount and offer that he was originally happy to sign on for.
4)That DCE in some form made the Titans aware that if Manly comes back with an offer that is competitive that he will return to his old club during this cooling down period.

My issues have nothing to do with how DCE acted, DCE was more than willing to take the obvious future blows from the media and fans all for the betterment of his family, something a wife and family will always admire.(in other words do what is best for your family above all else)

I'm also not entirely against DCE fighting for an upgrade in his first season, takes balls to do that,the average years of an NRL player are not very long so you have to make the most of your limited time and look after yourself.

At the same time the senior players were trying to keep a team together and taking less already for continued success which is the good side, the bad side is it is also unfair of the senior players to pressure a young player to hold off looking after yourself financially and "your time will come" mentality knowing full well the NRL average playing span is only a few years.

Appreciate your passion here but at the end of the day neither of us know 100% what went down. I can’t prove to you anything and vice versa. At the end of the day we are speculating/ extrapolating from bits and pieces of information from the media etc. if however you are involved with the club and have primary evidence please accept my apologies mate but if not please realise your view like mine is based upon speculation or at best an educated guess.
My educated guess is that DCE wanted to stay with the club….and I believe he genuinely wanted to sign the initial contract offered like it is openly reported. I can not however proof this to you or anyone ….not that I have any interest in doing so. It’s just my view. Your view is seemingly different and good for you…

 

[Technical Coach]

Appreciate your passion here but at the end of the day neither of us know 100% what went down. I can’t prove to you anything and vice versa. At the end of the day we are speculating/ extrapolating from bits and pieces of information from the media etc. if however you are involved with the club and have primary evidence please accept my apologies mate but if not please realise your view like mine is based upon speculation or at best an educated guess.
My educated guess is that DCE wanted to stay with the club….and I believe he genuinely wanted to sign the initial contract offered like it is openly reported. I can not however proof this to you or anyone ….not that I have any interest in doing so. It’s just my view. Your view is seemingly different and good for you…

My replies are "obviously" my opinions so i share them, nothing more nothing less.

A certain poster says i am "wrong" and goes on some tangent that twists the topic, stating i am wrong is suggesting he thinks he is correct.

Until anyone can directly answer the 4 points i have made to the contrary they too are speculating and not "correct", i state my views as my own not as "right or wrong" this is the difference here.

 

[Technical Coach]

Absolute legend. The chase on Holmes was all heart. I’d trade anyone in the roster to just keep him for one more year. Even Turbo. I don’t care about flashy and talented...I love effort and competitiveness. You can tell he is the last remaining member of the close knit group from the decade of dominance...he plays like Gifty, Matai, Snake, Choc and co.

Substance ahead of flair, technically correct and direct when it counts. Leads with actions, has the right amount to say when it is required and players want to perform to be seen in a better light in his eyes.

Great observation that Foran plays like our previous tough tight group, a competitiveness and drive that has been lacking in this squad for a long long time.

The team is starting to show signs of being able to compete and play at an intensity that gives as much as it takes against higher opposition, it would be great if Foran played another year so that this attitude is not just a passing fad that is limited to a few games but becomes a baseline of performance.

The Cowboys defensively did impress me, yes they made some defensive errors against Manly but around this time of year the grind and fatigue can really kick in so tired defensive efforts and attack can show up---which it did against Manly.

To come over the top of Manly and dig deep shows the Cowboys have instilled a tough disciplined approach with fitness levels deserving of a top 4 position. Their attack is not top 4 quality when it counts but they are playing in a hardened simple to replicate manner going off that performance and will always be tough to beat if they can sustain that into the semis.

Great to see Manly not lose the yardage battle in the first 25mins and maintain a high intensity, it set the game up well to remain in the grind, easily holding their own in the go forward stakes which allowed a fresher defensive attitude in dominant field positions. No lazy inside the 10 penaltes, strong contact in the tackles, composed dominance when holding the tackled player down and choosing the right times to do so which was rewarded with a little latitude in this area of the game.

Manly have to play with this level of effort from the start of the season to generate a buffer of wins to allow for the flat period in the middle of the year, then a gradual build up into semi final time with a 3 week tapering off period where we can rest some players.

Manly will burn out within a month having to play at such a high level to dig ourselves out of the bottom 8 for an extended period. If this effort and drive was evident from the start Manly could have a real dig semi final time with a fresh Foran, DCE, Schuster, Walker creating attack all over the place behind a group of hardened consistent performing players who are not as reliant on Tom to look good.

 

[Tragic Eagle]

All our players last night played with that Manly great passion

We did not lose last nights game through lack of passion

We lost the game as a result of the lack of football smarts on the field.