The Kieran Forum

[SeaEagleRock8]

We can forget , and we should , but as to forgiving well that’s another story.

Actually it's easier to forgive than to forget! Or so they say, and in my experience that's right.

 

[Eagles4Life]

We can forget , and we should , but as to forgiving well that’s another story.

I feel the same in regards to Des , he’s our coach and I’ll support him on that but I’ll never forgive him for what he did 24 hours after winning a GF in 2011

Amen to that @Mark from Brisbane

 

[Sheikheagle]

Foz is going to be on Benji’s show tonight.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Actually it's easier to forgive than to forget! Or so they say, and in my experience that's right.

Yeah well maybe I'm a bit of both , I have moved on but I'll never forget either.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Yeah well maybe I'm a bit of both , I have moved on but I'll never forget either.

Me too, I actually forgot that I forgave him

 

[bob dylan]

We can forget , and we should , but as to forgiving well that’s another story.

I feel the same in regards to Des , he’s our coach and I’ll support him on that but I’ll never forgive him for what he did 24 hours after winning a GF in 2011

I look forward to the day they punt him - but in the mean time i will support him and hope he is still here in 5 years time.

 

[Technical Coach]

No. You've got the story upside down.

It is quite well documented that an offer was made to DCE in late 2014 which he has stated publicly he was proposing to accept, and that he wanted to stay, but in the wake of a change in ownership structure dave Perry was sacked and the offer was withdrawn by the incoming (and now infamous) Joe Kelly. An inferior offer was then put to DCE. That is when the negotiations began to break down, and eventually DCE as you say was 'shipping himself around'.
Not the other way round.

The original offer was tabled for a long time before Joe Kelly arrived, if the original offer was so good and he was happy with it why the delay?(yeah yeah i know negotiations take time and a normal part of the process, i don't have an issue with that)

"Proposing to accept" yeah right, more like leading the club on at the time Foran as well, which they have ever right to do "obviously" but in the aftermath don't promote yourself as a "i always wanted to stay" type.

The old "i never really considered leaving" feel good headline for the press after signing a new deal that was months or even a year in the making.

 

[Technical Coach]

Mate technically you appear to be wrong on this one not that it really matters. The link below should prompt your memory.

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

All but signed nonsense reply, just a convenient reply at the time.

I would have more respect for all players if they just said "i'm testing the market and i want to see my value before signing on" but don't reply "i always wanted to stay" or " never really considered leaving" or "all but signed"

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

The original offer was tabled for a long time before Joe Kelly arrived, if the original offer was so good and he was happy with it why the delay?(yeah yeah i know negotiations take time and a normal part of the process, i don't have an issue with that)

Now you are really reaching. Perry was sacked on 26 October, Kelly started on 24 November, you think big signings would be happening without a CEO? Yes that is right, even at the most exemplary organisation you could imagine ('the Melbourne Storm' ) do you expect anyone to believe that the club tables a contract (or 2) and the player says sure Boss where do I sign? Of course it takes time to work out the details even when the fundamental agreement is reached, you and everyone else here knows this.

But keep hammering away, it can't actually hurt your credibility on this issue.

 

[Technical Coach]

100% wrong

As detailed by the other responses, Manly pulled their offer to DCE because Foran wanted more $$.
But Foran was just fkucking Manly and had already committed to the Eels.

Only one guy totally in the wrong with this FORAN. Club legend, my arse!!

No player is in the wrong is my point, they both wanted to leave for more money, how they went about it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

What i have an issue with is when players promote themselves as "never wanted to leave" or "the deal was all but done" token gesture lines.

 

[Technical Coach]

Now you are really reaching. Perry was sacked on 26 October, Kelly started on 24 November, you think big signings would be happening without a CEO? Yes that is right, even at the most exemplary organisation you could imagine ('the Melbourne Storm' ) do you expect anyone to believe that the club tables a contract (or 2) and the player says sure Boss where do I sign? Of course it takes time to work out the details even when the fundamental agreement is reached, you and everyone else here knows this.

But keep hammering away, it can't actually hurt your credibility on this issue.

I'm not reaching for anything, the delays were going on way before Kelly, do you not think that maybe the deal was changed out of "frustration of the delays", that it was a response not so much in terms of "cheapening out" but that the original offer was so good and there was still delays so to get some "hand" you start making a reduced offer to speed up the process, to draw a line in the sand moment.

The point is there was an offer that DCE was more than happy with and he did not take it, when you are happy with a deal you don't delay unless you have reason to delay.(major reasons)

What were the reasons for not signing the orignal deal, i'de like to know that, i bet the reply will go along the lines of "oh just some minor things that needed tweaking" yeah right

 

[Red Pill]

All but signed nonsense reply, just a convenient reply at the time.

I would have more respect for all players if they just said "i'm testing the market and i want to see my value before signing on" but don't reply "i always wanted to stay" or " never really considered leaving" or "all but signed"

Hmm speculation upon speculation……I guess we believe what we want to believe…

 

[MadMarcus]

I'm not reaching for anything, the delays were going on way before Kelly, do you not think that maybe the deal was changed out of "frustration of the delays", that it was a response not so much in terms of "cheapening out" but that the original offer was so good and there was still delays so to get some "hand" you start making a reduced offer to speed up the process, to draw a line in the sand moment.

The point is there was an offer that DCE was more than happy with and he did not take it, when you are happy with a deal you don't delay unless you have reason to delay.(major reasons)

What were the reasons for not signing the orignal deal, i'de like to know that, i bet the reply will go along the lines of "oh just some minor things that needed tweaking" yeah right

Maybe the club couldn’t find a pen. It’s been known to happen.

 

[The Bandit]

Clubs perspective , great roster that played for a spot in the GF last year.2 good aging halves one sound and current test player, the other has had soundness issues.
Players perspective, knows the above, understands his value and where he can maximize it. End result both have made the right decisions for the future of both parties.

 

[manly al]

Probably will always be a sliding doors scenario with the D C E and Foz retention saga . Whether Foz would have experienced his disruptive injury run if he had stayed at Manly or the requirement to find a suitable replacement for D C E. Think that that initial offer for D C E was only for 3 years at 850 k and then he would have been on the market again and in some demand again no doubt and who knows what contract range then . Trent Hodkinson , Kane Elgey hardly ideal replacements for D C E if he had left . Blake Green went O K but Walker to me was also a good 6 and foil for D C E in the main . Of course in hindsight better to have stuck with D C E , at 1 . 3 mil per season will always be in question but just really good again also that they are re united and that it can continue to be an excellent combo for the rest of this season .

 

[HoldenV8]

Kieran Foran's form for Manly has earned him a New Zealand Kiwi's recall.

Well done Foz!!!

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

No player is in the wrong is my point, they both wanted to leave for more money,

Just in case it wasn't obvious, my comment above about how your credibilty on this topic couldn't be harmed by anything further you add - was because you have none, lol.

Because absolutely no-one who was actually following Manly back then would say Foran left Manly because he was chasing more money. It was an open secret he was unhappy with Gift leaving, the 'old crew' being split up, Des had gone, Brad Arthur was promising a new dawn at the Eels. Yes he signed for a motza but that is not why he left Manly.

DCE wasn't in that old crew, he was given an offer he later said he was proposing to accept (although you know he was lying because you are an accredited expert on the psychology of neck tattoos), but that offer was withdrawn when Perry was sacked and an inferior offer put to him. So yes he did 'want more money' from Manly that they were now offering, he wanted what they initially offered before they decided that they needed Foran more and wanted that money to give to Foran. The 2 negotiations were very much tied up together, DCE was rightly or wrongly miffed and slighted to be told he was no longer such a priority, cafe-gate (thanks to Ryan) showed how wrong the club had got it, the horse they backed had already bolted but they were too blind to notice. The club then pulled DCE's offer completely when didn't accept the lower deal, then he signed with Titans (with a long cooling off period) and then (and only then) did Foran say actually i'm off too, to Brad and the Eels.

Anyhow none of this matters much, I simply find your assertion that DCE was clearly lying about proposing to accept the 1st Manly deal to be foolish enough to warrant a response. I confess I like some of your technical insights, your pop psychology though really sucks.

 

[Snake]

The only thing sadder than tonight’s loss is remembering that the best competitor we have at the club, will be moving on at the end of the year.

 

[winnyason]

The only thing sadder than tonight’s loss is remembering that the best competitor we have at the club, will be moving on at the end of the year.

Agree simply crazy imo

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

Just in case it wasn't obvious, my comment above about how your credibilty on this topic couldn't be harmed by anything further you add - was because you have none, lol.

Because absolutely no-one who was actually following Manly back then would say Foran left Manly because he was chasing more money. It was an open secret he was unhappy with Gift leaving, the 'old crew' being split up, Des had gone, Brad Arthur was promising a new dawn at the Eels. Yes he signed for a motza but that is not why he left Manly.

DCE wasn't in that old crew, he was given an offer he later said he was proposing to accept (although you know he was lying because you are an accredited expert on the psychology of neck tattoos), but that offer was withdrawn when Perry was sacked and an inferior offer put to him. So yes he did 'want more money' from Manly that they were now offering, he wanted what they initially offered before they decided that they needed Foran more and wanted that money to give to Foran. The 2 negotiations were very much tied up together, DCE was rightly or wrongly miffed and slighted to be told he was no longer such a priority, cafe-gate (thanks to Ryan) showed how wrong the club had got it, the horse they backed had already bolted but they were too blind to notice. The club then pulled DCE's offer completely when didn't accept the lower deal, then he signed with Titans (with a long cooling off period) and then (and only then) did Foran say actually i'm off too, to Brad and the Eels.

Anyhow none of this matters much, I simply find your assertion that DCE was clearly lying about proposing to accept the 1st Manly deal to be foolish enough to warrant a response. I confess I like some of your technical insights, your pop psychology though really sucks.

I think that we can all agree that the off-field ructions of 2014/15, which led to certain recruitment and retention decisions, are still having an impact. It will be a few more years before those decisions have finally played out.