The 'General Off-Topic Discussion, Banter, Arguments & Hopefully Some Mediation' Thread

[NLSeaEagle]

We (including me) all make the basic assumption that we will spend all of our salary cap to gain the strongest squad possible and try and win football games.

Is that the way the owner thinks?

I sincerely doubt it. The owners are self serving f****.

Every dollar saved on players salaries is another dollar to their bottom line (and Penn has shown his hand previously that the bottom line is his main priority, not football success)

 

[Mitch]

We (including me) all make the basic assumption that we will spend all of our salary cap to gain the strongest squad possible and try and win football games.

Is that the way the owner thinks?

I sincerely doubt it. The owners are self serving f****.

Every dollar saved on players salaries is another dollar to their bottom line (and Penn has shown his hand previously that the bottom line is his main priority, not football success)

Wouldn’t a successful team lead to success off field which would consequently lead to a healthier bottom line?

No one on here knows just how close our club sits to the salary cap, but as a successful businessman (Which Penn is), I highly doubt he would spend less money on salaries which which would manifest into poor on field results and a lower level of revenue from associated income streams such as ticket sales, merchandise, sponsorship etc.

 

[NLSeaEagle]

Wouldn’t a successful team lead to success off field which would consequently lead to a healthier bottom line?

No one on here knows just how close our club sits to the salary cap, but as a successful businessman (Which Penn is), I highly doubt he would spend less money on salaries which which would manifest into poor on field results and a lower level of revenue from associated income streams such as ticket sales, merchandise, sponsorship etc.

Do you really believe that?
The fact that Penn is a successful businessman is exactly the reason I don think football success is a high priority.

Is there a significant difference to the bottom line finishing 8th or finishing 4th?

This is not a global sport, Manly has a supporter base, on field success is not going to significantly increase that!
Crowd levels (ticket sales) at Brookie are not going to explode.........and there is a low ceiling if they do.
Sponsorship doesn't change, sponsors are locked in to contracts.
Merchandising? Always limited by the supporter base.

This is not like say a premier league football club.
Thats a global game and on field success leads to massive revenue increases.

 

[Mitch]

Do you really believe that?
The fact that Penn is a successful businessman is exactly the reason I don think football success is a high priority.

Is there a significant difference to the bottom line finishing 8th or finishing 4th?

This is not a global sport, Manly has a supporter base, on field success is not going to significantly increase that!
Crowd levels (ticket sales) at Brookie are not going to explode.........and there is a low ceiling if they do.
Sponsorship doesn't change, sponsors are locked in to contracts.
Merchandising? Always limited by the supporter base.

This is not like say a premier league football club.
Thats a global game and on field success leads to massive revenue increases.

So success on field doesn’t open up increased opportunities for sponsorship of greater value? I don’t believe there is a limit to sponsors being associated with the club and you cannot argue that success wouldn’t lead to a greater level of attractiveness for potential sponsors.

Crowd numbers are certainly influenced by the success of our team and there can be a significant impact on revenue attached to this. A previous CFO of the club mentioned that the difference in gate takings and merchandise at a game attracting 15,000 to one attracting 6000 can be up to $100,000.

Even if that figure is increased to 9000-10,000 - you would still be looking at a significant difference in potential income. I would imagine a successful team would lead to greater crowd figures and across the season could have a hefty effect on the bottom line.

Happy to disagree but I don’t think the owners of the club would be intentionally spending below the salary cap threshold.

 

[NLSeaEagle]

So success on field doesn’t open up increased opportunities for sponsorship of greater value? I don’t believe there is a limit to sponsors being associated with the club and you cannot argue that success wouldn’t lead to a greater level of attractiveness for potential sponsors.

Crowd numbers are certainly influenced by the success of our team and there can be a significant impact on revenue attached to this. A previous CFO of the club mentioned that the difference in gate takings and merchandise at a game attracting 15,000 to one attracting 6000 can be up to $100,000.

Even if that figure is increased to 9000-10,000 - you would still be looking at a significant difference in potential income. I would imagine a successful team would lead to greater crowd figures and across the season could have a hefty effect on the bottom line.

Happy to disagree but I don’t think the owners of the club would be intentionally spending below the salary cap threshold.

I think there is an assessment being made .................where the level of spending is being moderated against the potential on field success that spending has.

I also have a theory that the Snake/Matai issue.................i.e. not being granted retirement exemptions by the NRL was not considered the worst result by the owners. Sure they publicly said the right things but let's be honest how does the NRL's ruling on Snake/Matia make any sense?

If they had been granted retirement exemptions, the fans would have demanded some replacement players ................which would have f***ed up the bottom line. (i.e. Snake/Matai + new players)

Best result possible, no new players and scrape into the 8 to keep the fans happy!

How is it that theoretically we have the best part of 1.5 million freed up next year and we are still shopping bargain basement?

 

[Mitch]

I think there is an assessment being made .................where the level of spending is being moderated against the potential on field success that spending has.

I also have a theory that the Snake/Matai issue.................i.e. not being granted retirement exemptions by the NRL was not considered the worst result by the owners. Sure they publicly said the right things but let's be honest how does the NRL's ruling on Snake/Matia make any sense?

If they had been granted retirement exemptions, the fans would have demanded some replacement players ................which would have f***ed up the bottom line. (i.e. Snake/Matai + new players)

Best result possible, no new players and scrape into the 8 to keep the fans happy!

How is it that theoretically we have the best part of 1.5 million freed up next year and we are still shopping bargain basement?

It’s an interesting one mate. Barrett was actually asked about this in a podcast earlier in this year (where would the money from Snake and Matai go).

His summation was while it is easy for fans etc to think that money will be free to use for 2018 both Turbos have been significantly upgraded along with the club wanting to upgrade young players like Walker and Api along with the fact players like Sironen and Uate were picked up as a bargain this year but will be at full freight in 2018.

 

[anthonyb1965]

I think there is an assessment being made .................where the level of spending is being moderated against the potential on field success that spending has.

I also have a theory that the Snake/Matai issue.................i.e. not being granted retirement exemptions by the NRL was not considered the worst result by the owners. Sure they publicly said the right things but let's be honest how does the NRL's ruling on Snake/Matia make any sense?

If they had been granted retirement exemptions, the fans would have demanded some replacement players ................which would have f***ed up the bottom line. (i.e. Snake/Matai + new players)

Best result possible, no new players and scrape into the 8 to keep the fans happy!

How is it that theoretically we have the best part of 1.5 million freed up next year and we are still shopping bargain basement?

 

[NLSeaEagle]

So success on field doesn’t open up increased opportunities for sponsorship of greater value? I don’t believe there is a limit to sponsors being associated with the club and you cannot argue that success wouldn’t lead to a greater level of attractiveness for potential sponsors.

Crowd numbers are certainly influenced by the success of our team and there can be a significant impact on revenue attached to this. A previous CFO of the club mentioned that the difference in gate takings and merchandise at a game attracting 15,000 to one attracting 6000 can be up to $100,000.

Even if that figure is increased to 9000-10,000 - you would still be looking at a significant difference in potential income. I would imagine a successful team would lead to greater crowd figures and across the season could have a hefty effect on the bottom line.

Happy to disagree but I don’t think the owners of the club would be intentionally spending below the salary cap threshold.

In 2011, we finished 2nd and were minor premiers..................average home crowd 13,121

In 2016, I cant remember ......................average home crowd 14,431
In 2017, 6th .......................average home crowd 13,640

So does this suggest on field success and crowd attendances don't have as much synergy as you think?

 

[Deleted member 26876]

In 2011, we finished 2nd and were minor premiers..................average home crowd 13,121

In 2016, I cant remember ......................average home crowd 14,431
In 2017, 6th .......................average home crowd 13,640

So does this suggest on field success and crowd attendances don't have as much synergy as you think?

What about sponsors. Major Sponsors join strong, and most importantly, successful clubs. Penn would have one intention only with manly, and that would be for them to succeed. Plus he wouldn't have pumped in all this money into our drama-bound club just for a financial return, there'd also be an emotional investment.

Penn isn't all about money, and even if he was he wouldn't want us to just be a satisfactory team. Good theory although there's no backbone

 

[NLSeaEagle]

What about sponsors. Major Sponsors join strong, and most importantly, successful clubs. Penn would have one intention only with manly, and that would be for them to succeed. Plus he wouldn't have pumped in all this money into our drama-bound club just for a financial return, there'd also be an emotional investment.

Penn isn't all about money, and even if he was he wouldn't want us to just be a satisfactory team. Good theory although there's no backbone

I would have hoped you are right but it doesn't appear that way...........

I guess you should take a look at the on field success of the team pre Penn and post Penn.

I also can't believe the issues the club had with Glenn, Watmough, Brett, Matai etc are those which a true Manly loving football fan would have. They gave Manly fans so much joy and success!
If Penn was about teh footie, how could the relationship with those guys have got that estranged!

 

[anthonyb1965]

What about sponsors. Major Sponsors join strong, and most importantly, successful clubs. Penn would have one intention only with manly, and that would be for them to succeed. Plus he wouldn't have pumped in all this money into our drama-bound club just for a financial return, there'd also be an emotional investment.

Penn isn't all about money, and even if he was he wouldn't want us to just be a satisfactory team. Good theory although there's no backbone

Successful Club = Corporate Sponsors lining up to part of it.

I know we were still trying to sell 2 spots halfway through this year; 1 x back of shorts and 2 back lower jersey. That's around $300k sold for half that mid season.

 

[NLSeaEagle]

Successful Club = Corporate Sponsors lining up to part of it.

I know we were still trying to sell 2 spots halfway through this year; 1 x back of shorts and 2 back lower jersey. That's around $300k sold for half that mid season.

The truth is we are not a club that will attract sponsors easily........

We have a small fan base and we are disliked by the fans from most other NRL clubs.
There is no global or international appeal for sponsors, so it is local area based sponsorship......or people with a previous affinity to the club.

I would bet money that Manly were not the first choice for Lottoland? I'm sure they would have preferred the Western suburbs.

 

[Deleted member 26876]

The truth is we are not a club that will attract sponsors easily........

We have a small fan base and we are disliked by the fans from most other NRL clubs.
There is no global or international appeal for sponsors, so it is local area based sponsorship......or people with a previous affinity to the club.

I would bet money that Manly were not the first choice for Lottoland? I'm sure they would have preferred the Western suburbs.

And of course there's all the drama at manly on top of that. However, i think that proves Penn is truthful and genuinely wants the best for the club. He is a part of manly and wants the best for manly

Average isn't good enough by our standards and by his

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

We (including me) all make the basic assumption that we will spend all of our salary cap to gain the strongest squad possible and try and win football games.

Is that the way the owner thinks?

I sincerely doubt it. The owners are self serving f****.

Every dollar saved on players salaries is another dollar to their bottom line (and Penn has shown his hand previously that the bottom line is his main priority, not football success)

Not correct at all, players are paid by the NRL, Penn doesn’t get any unders not spent !

 

[sheridanstand78]

In 2011, we finished 2nd and were minor premiers..................average home crowd 13,121

In 2016, I cant remember ......................average home crowd 14,431
In 2017, 6th .......................average home crowd 13,640

So does this suggest on field success and crowd attendances don't have as much synergy as you think?

The average home crowds you refer to in 2016 and 2017 include games at Suncorp Stadium so the average is higher as a result. We took a home game to Brisvegas in 2011 and the crowd for that double header was a lot lower.

 

[NLSeaEagle]

The average home crowds you refer to in 2016 and 2017 include games at Suncorp Stadium so the average is higher as a result. We took a home game to Brisvegas in 2011 and the crowd for that double header was a lot lower.

True............

 

[globaleagle]

I put that kind of accounting philosophy to a tax collector once.....I've been on the run under an assumed name ever since

Aagh don't tell me your real name is XR6 Turbo?

He does actually drive a Ford.

#atoisclosingin!

 

[Ralphie]

We (including me) all make the basic assumption that we will spend all of our salary cap to gain the strongest squad possible and try and win football games.

Is that the way the owner thinks?

I sincerely doubt it. The owners are self serving f****.

Every dollar saved on players salaries is another dollar to their bottom line (and Penn has shown his hand previously that the bottom line is his main priority, not football success)

What complete and utter rubbish. When you put your hands in your pocket for $ millions then feel free to criticise.

 

[NLSeaEagle]

When you put your hands in your pocket for $ millions then feel free to criticise.

Did he put his hand in his pocket out of benevolence ...................or was he just buying a business?
The fact that he has suffered losses previously would suggest to me he is even more intent on running the club as a business.

Such a childish retort! The right to critique is saved for the wealthy few is it! D***head!

 

[BOZO]

Did he put his hand in his pocket out of benevolence ...................or was he just buying a business?
The fact that he has suffered losses previously would suggest to me he is even more intent on running the club as a business.

Such a childish retort! The right to critique is saved for the wealthy few is it! D***head!

Did he put his hand in his pocket out of benevolence ...................or was he just buying a business?
If you know anything about profitable business you would also know that investing in an NRL club is not a great Investment .
The NRL is not a charity it is a business
Any one that does not run a club as a business is doomed to fail.
Did he put his hand in his pocket out of benevolence ? He put his hand in his pocket out of passion for the Sea eagles .