Bencher
I'd say if you base success from results, then 90% of our players are overpaid. You could also pay for potential (and in this area we are much better off).

In 2011, DCE had Foz, B. Stewart, G, Stewart, Lyon, Matai, Hopoate, Robertson, Ballin, Choc, Menzies, Kite, Rodney and so many others carrying him. As soon as those players left / retired, and DCE had to hold his own in a reduced quality roster, the results are there for everyone to see.

The start of last season (4 losses), and the back-half of the season before, we posted record breaking losses, stats, and loss streaks.
What a superstar squad that was! Many taking unders to stay together and win premierships and play in grand finals. Something DCE has never understood.
 
Journey Man
What a superstar squad that was! Many taking unders to stay together and win premierships and play in grand finals. Something DCE has never understood.
Without DCEm Huamole was a beast this season. As soon as DCE returns, is as soon as Haumole gets the ball at a standstill, and the most inopportune times and we start losing again.
 
I'm not really Mal Cochrane...
History and fans' memories judge players sometimes in less than flattering lights.

My favorite manly player ever is Mic O'Connor. I grew up mesmerized by his ability and all-around skill. In their primes, it would be hard to separate both him and Jamie Lyon in my opinion. however, given his role in the superleague war, he's not very well-liked around these parts. I feel DCE gets the same treatment.
I don't understand your comparison with DCE and Michael OConner in regards to history and fans memories, as DCE is still playing and polarising fans currently, not long after his career finished
 
Bencher
I don't know why. But I have always pictured Luke Brooks one day wearing our sea Eagles jersey.
Yer, I don’t about that one, but on the news last night, it was stated that the Tig’s want him gone that badly they were considering carrying 500-600 of his pay cheque. Could put some cheap backup experience in the halves next year, (just in case DCE and shoe turn into a $hit show) no replacement for Foz, (perhaps a second 9 might not be that stupid) anyway someone will get a cheap half next year. I know highlight packages don’t mean much, but the news clip was a good advertisement for his services, I’m still thinking, no thanks, not sure on the financials, but I thought it said he was on their books at 1.3 next year, ouch, meaning, would still cost a club 700-800, no thanks.
 
Sea Eagle Lach
Staff member
Premium Member
In 2011, DCE had Foz, B. Stewart, G, Stewart, Lyon, Matai, Hopoate, Robertson, Ballin, Choc, Menzies, Kite, Rodney and so many others carrying him. As soon as those players left / retired, and DCE had to hold his own in a reduced quality roster, the results are there for everyone to see.
1. A bunch of champions leave/retire
2. Results then immediately go south
3. Therefore DCE is not a top halfback

Yes, the logic of that is there for everyone to see, but it doesn't look especially compelling logic.

(Actually many of those same champs struggled in 2009 and 2010, despite Manly having top halfbacks (2008 Dally M Player of the Year Orford in 2009, and 2010 Dally M Rookie of the Year Hodkinson in 2010). But as we know, Brett Stewart barely played ... so maybe the fullback is more important than the halfback!
 
Official NRL commentator of the UK Royal Family
Premium Member
1. A bunch of champions leave/retire
2. Results then immediately go south
3. Therefore DCE is not a top halfback

Yes, the logic of that is there for everyone to see, but it's not very compelling logic.

(Actually many of those same champs struggled in 2009 and 2010, despite Manly having top halfbacks (2008 Dally M Player of the Year Orford in 2009, and 2010 Dally M Rookie of the Year Hodkinson in 2010). But as we know, Brett Stewart barely played ... so maybe the fullback is more important than the halfback!
Great point.

Firstly should DCE be the games highest paid player. NO WAY.

Secondly did DCE demand to be the highest paid player when the contract negotiations were originally happening? NO

He signed with the GC for around 750k per season. So had he gone and recieved moderate upgrades he might now be considered a 900k player had all the blocks fallen into place.

Its old ground but the Club caused this situation.

In re to Brooks - The Tigers have realised that as Brooks contract increase has occurred, he’s now ceased to provide value for money, so will hopefully move him on. That’s smart business.
Yep. Smart business picking up to 800k of a contract so another side can use his services to beat you.
DCE being the highest paid player in the comp, hasn’t ever (in my opinion) been the best player in the comp over his time with the Eagles. That’s the issue. That’s not to say he isn’t a good player. It’s just not value for money - which flows into the 30 man squad.
Again not his fault. Club were in a bind after the Foran ****over. I will say there was a period of time back then when halfbacks were being signed to highly inflated contracts. DCE. Hunt. Milford. Brooks. The GC kid thats just retired.
I don't think its worked out for any of them has it.
Obviously it's not one player's fault. You are right in that it is the club who screwed up majorly... but to double down and extend his contract at the expense of Foz is mind boggling
Foz ****ed us for fun the first time and then when we resurrect his career he ****s us again. Although its more about the Shoe the second time round.
I’m sure the club paid big money for dce in the hopes he would lead the club to success..so the club’s responsible for that mistake..dce either thinks he is worth the coin he is being paid or he laughs very loudly at home rolling around creating an angel shape on a bed full of $100 notes
As you or any of us would do if your boss doubled your salary overnight for the next 10 years. Happy Times.
As soon as those players left / retired, and DCE had to hold his own in a reduced quality roster, the results are there for everyone to see.

The start of last season (4 losses), and the back-half of the season before, we posted record breaking losses, stats, and loss streaks.
Ah generational side anyone? Mark my word one day Nathan Cleary will also be left with a Mediocre side to lead around the park and it won't all be diamonds and gold.
It happens.

What can also happen is the club again ****es up and hires what has been proved to be one of the worst FG coaches in the history of the game. A coach everyone was in love with for some unknown reason. A coach that when he came here said one of his main jobs was taking DCE and moulding him into a JT type player that pops up all over the park and runs the attack. Well unfortunately DCE was never that guy and its badly affected his and our game.
What a superstar squad that was! Many taking unders to stay together and win premierships and play in grand finals. Something DCE has never understood.
Boss:
Hey Hozza. We want to increase your pay packet 2 fold for doing exactly the same job mate. You good..... oh and we will gaurentee it for 10 years

HOZZA: sounds good but no thanks. Just give me a small increase and pay gorge,John,ringo and Paul the rest as they deserve it. They don't like me but I'm happy to buy their friendship.

Boss: Ah 👌 🆗
 
Bencher
Great point.

Firstly should DCE be the games highest paid player. NO WAY.

Secondly did DCE demand to be the highest paid player when the contract negotiations were originally happening? NO

He signed with the GC for around 750k per season. So had he gone and recieved moderate upgrades he might now be considered a 900k player had all the blocks fallen into place.

Its old ground but the Club caused this situation.


Yep. Smart business picking up to 800k of a contract so another side can use his services to beat you.

Again not his fault. Club were in a bind after the Foran ****over. I will say there was a period of time back then when halfbacks were being signed to highly inflated contracts. DCE. Hunt. Milford. Brooks. The GC kid thats just retired.
I don't think its worked out for any of them has it.

Foz ****ed us for fun the first time and then when we resurrect his career he ****s us again. Although its more about the Shoe the second time round.

As you or any of us would do if your boss doubled your salary overnight for the next 10 years. Happy Times.

Ah generational side anyone? Mark my word one day Nathan Cleary will also be left with a Mediocre side to lead around the park and it won't all be diamonds and gold.
It happens.

What can also happen is the club again ****es up and hires what has been proved to be one of the worst FG coaches in the history of the game. A coach everyone was in love with for some unknown reason. A coach that when he came here said one of his main jobs was taking DCE and moulding him into a JT type player that pops up all over the park and runs the attack. Well unfortunately DCE was never that guy and its badly affected his and our game.

Boss:
Hey Hozza. We want to increase your pay packet 2 fold for doing exactly the same job mate. You good..... oh and we will gaurentee it for 10 years

HOZZA: sounds good but no thanks. Just give me a small increase and pay gorge,John,ringo and Paul the rest as they deserve it. They don't like me but I'm happy to buy their friendship.

Boss: Ah 👌 🆗
Before you blindly rush to the defence of DCE my point (if you slow down and read it) was that it’s good business for a club to recognise they aren’t getting value for money - oh wait, that’s right, they should sign him for 8yrs as the highest paid player and never once look to offload him. Thats better business 😂

And once again, if you read my post before beginning your DCE saving rant, at no point did I say it was DCEs fault. I actually said I would do the same thing as DCE and that it’s completely on the club

Before you rush in with your DCE goggles on, read posts. Might help with your replies.
 
Bencher
Premium Member
Guess that in essence it does simply comes down to value for money , Jake in practical terms would be in overs territory but still regularly puts in 8 out of 10 performances . And again we are talking about the Highest paid player in the game currently in D C E. who no way in any season with Manly has averaged regularly 8 out of 10 for instance . If D C E was on 750 k or so , sure that would still be some criticism based on this overall performance outcomes but probably a bit more restrained . Hasn "t happened much this season but have to admit he has managed some good clutch field goals over time but then a counter view could be if he had managed some of those games a bit better , it would not have been necessary . Really don "t think however that he has lacked commitment with his attitude , have seen him do some really good work with covering tackles and trying to get back recovering threating situations . Probably should have kept Luke Keary all those years ago when he was a Manly junior , to me he one of the best attacking halves going around and a real smart game manager , just like Foz .
 
Official NRL commentator of the UK Royal Family
Premium Member
Before you blindly rush to the defence of DCE my point (if you slow down and read it) was that it’s good business for a club to recognise they aren’t getting value for money - oh wait, that’s right, they should sign him for 8yrs as the highest paid player and never once look to offload him. Thats better business 😂

And once again, if you read my post before beginning your DCE saving rant, at no point did I say it was DCEs fault. I actually said I would do the same thing as DCE and that it’s completely on the club

Before you rush in with your DCE goggles on, read posts. Might help with your replies.
FFS. I was simply offering opinions to points made. I did indeed read each post but thanks for the insight into to intricacies of forum chat.

Trust me when I say IF there was a replacement that could do a better job at half the cost then do it. But there isn't.

Our young guys arnt ready.

Foz perhaps but Injury is always just around the corner.

There are probably only 3 in the NRL that Are week in week out better that you would 100% go for. Cleary, Hughes, and perhaps Moses( but jury still out there). Reynolds as good as he is is one match away from retirement too risky. Who replaces him.

I was livid at his stupid drop ball the other night. I was frustrated that Hamole was back to his quiet non used form after 2 barnstorming weeks. I don't think he's the messiah.

What I do think is that until there is a viable replacement all the cursing in the world won't change squat so I better just get on with supporting him and the team
 
Official NRL commentator of the UK Royal Family
Premium Member
they aren’t getting value for money - oh wait, that’s right, they should sign him for 8yrs as the highest paid player and never once look to offload him. Thats better business 😂
Its really not good business to be paying the freight on a player so one of your opposition gets a decent player for next to nothing. Might as well play him in reggies.
 
Bencher
FFS. I was simply offering opinions to points made. I did indeed read each post but thanks for the insight into to intricacies of forum chat.

Trust me when I say IF there was a replacement that could do a better job at half the cost then do it. But there isn't.

Our young guys arnt ready.

Foz perhaps but Injury is always just around the corner.

There are probably only 3 in the NRL that Are week in week out better that you would 100% go for. Cleary, Hughes, and perhaps Moses( but jury still out there). Reynolds as good as he is is one match away from retirement too risky. Who replaces him.

I was livid at his stupid drop ball the other night. I was frustrated that Hamole was back to his quiet non used form after 2 barnstorming weeks. I don't think he's the messiah.

What I do think is that until there is a viable replacement all the cursing in the world won't change squat so I better just get on with supporting him and the team
Agree with your post. In every aspect.

However, continuing to pay a top 4 halfback the highest and longest contract in the comp because there aren’t better options is silly for business in my opinion.

If it was my Dads team, I’d send him on his way, strengthen other areas and rebuild.

Persisting with the same setup for 8yrs hasn’t worked.

The cap is king. Having a mid range halfback is ok, if you can then share the money amongst other players and increase your overall value for money.

Offload DCEs contract, strengthen the 9 position or strengthen our outside backs with some stars.
There’s plenty of other ways to approach a premiership challenge than just sucking up 8yrs of a top 4 halfback in fear of having a top 10 halfback.
 
Bencher
Its really not good business to be paying the freight on a player so one of your opposition gets a decent player for next to nothing. Might as well play him in reggies.
If you play him in Reggie’s, you pay his freight and his first grades replacement.

If you pay a portion of his freight for him to play with someone else, you have more coin to rebuild/replace/strengthen other positions/extend contracts etc.

Agree to disagree.
 
Bencher
Premium Member
DCE under Des 2011 was awesome

DCE under Toovey 2012 - 2014 was awesome

DCE under Barrett 2015 - 2018 was average/awesome

DCE under Des 2020 - 2022 is average/awesome

Did the Barrett years hinder DCE? He seemed to be the best young half going round till Barrett
 
Official NRL commentator of the UK Royal Family
Premium Member
Agree with your post. In every aspect.

However, continuing to pay a top 4 halfback the highest and longest contract in the comp because there aren’t better options is silly for business in my opinion.

If it was my Dads team, I’d send him on his way, strengthen other areas and rebuild.

Persisting with the same setup for 8yrs hasn’t worked.

The cap is king. Having a mid range halfback is ok, if you can then share the money amongst other players and increase your overall value for money.

Offload DCEs contract, strengthen the 9 position or strengthen our outside backs with some stars.
There’s plenty of other ways to approach a premiership challenge than just sucking up 8yrs of a top 4 halfback in fear of having a top 10 halfback.
i would counter that its very rare to have a team win a comp without a top half. If you bin DCE and employ a 600k half you are only saving 600k. its not really enough for a full side upgrade. perhaps a centre or another prop? I would say the DCE contract, the double turbros contracts and marty's 800k are all contributing to the problem at hand.

In those 8 years, there have been some pretty big reasons why it hasn't worked.

Twenty Barret being one, rebuilding after the golden generation left. Losing Des because of the basket case board. Toovey getting thrown under bus. infighting. bad retention. DCE's massive contract. all of the above and more have contributed to where we are right now.
 
Bencher
i would counter that its very rare to have a team win a comp without a top half. If you bin DCE and employ a 600k half you are only saving 600k. its not really enough for a full side upgrade. perhaps a centre or another prop? I would say the DCE contract, the double turbros contracts and marty's 800k are all contributing to the problem at hand.

In those 8 years, there have been some pretty big reasons why it hasn't worked.

Twenty Barret being one, rebuilding after the golden generation left. Losing Des because of the basket case board. Toovey getting thrown under bus. infighting. bad retention. DCE's massive contract. all of the above and more have contributed to where we are right now.
Yep. I’m not trying to suggest that DCE is the ONLY issue with the Eagles. As you suggested, there’s a heap.

His contract and performance however does draw major criticism purely due to the value and length of his contract.

In re to your comment about requiring a top half, I probably haven’t explained myself well enough. Im suggesting that you get a top 10 half (in regards to the cap) and the clubs aim should always be value for money. It has to be a rotation of squad members to where they reach a point where they are no longer providing that value for money you require to win a premiership.
Look at the Panthers right now for example. Kikau no longer is value for his larger contract - offloaded. API has reached a point where they can replace him because they feel like they have the youth to replace and get better value for money. Both players arguably at the top of their game - but the club won’t continue their contracts because they can achieve better value elsewhere and reformulate the squad by increasing those that are providing value for money.
Would they ever trade Cleary - no way, the bloke provides absolute value for money on his $1m contract.

A Sammy Walker, Illias or Mam style to name a few - teamed with Foz would be the perfect foil - and honestly could probably afford all 4 players for less than DCEs annual contracted amount.

Understandably they get upgraded…at some point, then it’s all about rotation of roster and ensuring value for money.

Sticking with $1.25 a year for a top 4 halfback for 8yrs to me, is bad for business and hasn’t worked.

Anyway, good chatting. All interesting opinions.
 
Bencher
Great point.

Firstly should DCE be the games highest paid player. NO WAY.

Secondly did DCE demand to be the highest paid player when the contract negotiations were originally happening? NO

He signed with the GC for around 750k per season. So had he gone and recieved moderate upgrades he might now be considered a 900k player had all the blocks fallen into place.

Its old ground but the Club caused this situation.


Yep. Smart business picking up to 800k of a contract so another side can use his services to beat you.

Again not his fault. Club were in a bind after the Foran ****over. I will say there was a period of time back then when halfbacks were being signed to highly inflated contracts. DCE. Hunt. Milford. Brooks. The GC kid thats just retired.
I don't think its worked out for any of them has it.

Foz ****ed us for fun the first time and then when we resurrect his career he ****s us again. Although its more about the Shoe the second time round.

As you or any of us would do if your boss doubled your salary overnight for the next 10 years. Happy Times.

Ah generational side anyone? Mark my word one day Nathan Cleary will also be left with a Mediocre side to lead around the park and it won't all be diamonds and gold.
It happens.

What can also happen is the club again ****es up and hires what has been proved to be one of the worst FG coaches in the history of the game. A coach everyone was in love with for some unknown reason. A coach that when he came here said one of his main jobs was taking DCE and moulding him into a JT type player that pops up all over the park and runs the attack. Well unfortunately DCE was never that guy and its badly affected his and our game.

Boss:
Hey Hozza. We want to increase your pay packet 2 fold for doing exactly the same job mate. You good..... oh and we will gaurentee it for 10 years

HOZZA: sounds good but no thanks. Just give me a small increase and pay gorge,John,ringo and Paul the rest as they deserve it. They don't like me but I'm happy to buy their friendship.

Boss: Ah 👌 🆗
Haha love it when your in headless chook quote mode. So entertaining. You sure your not DCE? 😉
And yeah, your spot on mate. Id definitely make sure other workmates that do the same job as me get the same pay. It’s only fair. You obviously don’t agree but I think many would.

And there will ALWAYS ALWAYS be young players that step up and become superstars. They just need the chance. Look at all the Greats that have left Manly. Fulton, Toovey, Lyons, Beaver, all left/retired yet we survived. We will survive and thrive when dce leaves as well.
 
Bencher
Yep. I’m not trying to suggest that DCE is the ONLY issue with the Eagles. As you suggested, there’s a heap.

His contract and performance however does draw major criticism purely due to the value and length of his contract.

In re to your comment about requiring a top half, I probably haven’t explained myself well enough. Im suggesting that you get a top 10 half (in regards to the cap) and the clubs aim should always be value for money. It has to be a rotation of squad members to where they reach a point where they are no longer providing that value for money you require to win a premiership.
Look at the Panthers right now for example. Kikau no longer is value for his larger contract - offloaded. API has reached a point where they can replace him because they feel like they have the youth to replace and get better value for money. Both players arguably at the top of their game - but the club won’t continue their contracts because they can achieve better value elsewhere and reformulate the squad by increasing those that are providing value for money.
Would they ever trade Cleary - no way, the bloke provides absolute value for money on his $1m contract.

A Sammy Walker, Illias or Mam style to name a few - teamed with Foz would be the perfect foil - and honestly could probably afford all 4 players for less than DCEs annual contracted amount.

Understandably they get upgraded…at some point, then it’s all about rotation of roster and ensuring value for money.

Sticking with $1.25 a year for a top 4 halfback for 8yrs to me, is bad for business and hasn’t worked.

Anyway, good chatting. All interesting opinions.
Therefore, along with DCE, we should offload Jake Trbojevic coz he sure as hell isn't value for money & is on much more than Kikau. At the moment the only 'value for money' players at Manly are Garrick, Koula, Olakau'atu, Aloai, Tuipulotu, Davey, Croker, Parker.....the rest forget including Tom & Jake.
 
Bencher
Premium Member
Therefore, along with DCE, we should offload Jake Trbojevic coz he sure as hell isn't value for money & is on much more than Kikau. At the moment the only 'value for money' players at Manly are Garrick, Koula, Olakau'atu, Aloai, Tuipulotu, Davey, Croker, Parker.....the rest forget including Tom & Jake.
Yep Jake has not made one tackle break in 15 games for manly this season along with one offload, the attacking game of Jake has gone to a new low this season.
 

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