In for the long haul.
Premium Member
2016 Tipping Competitor
Funny the comments about the vitriol. There is no doubt he is a polarising player. Some see him as a very well spoken hero while others see him as a bit of an overrated fake.
While I've cheered on his field goals and 40 20s, I've never warmed to him like I have to so many Manly players over the years.
For me this year has been the worst with him now completely ruining the attack and defence on his side of the field. Sure he's Queensland captain but I'm not sure that they have a whole lot of options for half and I think others in the team create all the opportunity.
He shouldn't be the highest paid player in the game, let alone our club, and sure I know that's not his fault , blah, blah blah.

This might seem like a minor point but he really sealed it for me when he didn't turn up to the fan training the day before the Tiger's game. Yes I know he had a cork, yada yada, but he is the club captain and surely representing the club to fans, kids in particular, is a part of the captain's job. You wouldn't have been able to keep Jake away.

I find it hard to believe that in 50 years of supporting the club that I've had to endure this headless chook for 20% of that time. I was hopeful that it was almost over but, yep, extended. Great.
 
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Bencher
I can't recall ever seeing as much anti-DCE vitriol as I have in the last few days, some of it (not yours Batty) is so over the top it is quite hilarious and not worth bothering with. As I say, not yours, your comment is reasonable and moderate. However, couple of quick questions for you:

  • If we've had such underwhelming results with a top 5 halfback, how bad would we have been if we had a 6th 8th or 10th ranked hafback? Or worse?
  • Alternatively, how much would we have had to pay to get a top 3 halfback (whoever you think that was at the time, or at any time)? (And please let's not pretend we could ever have signed Cronk or Thurston or Cleary for less than closer to 2 million per year).
  • And lastly ... why do you say our salary cap situation will improve after DCE is gone? It's the Manly club that has planned our cap strategy. Why would that suddenly change?


(and by the way! Although I'm probably seen as a DCE defender that is not the case, I defend him against some criticisms but by no means all of them)
I think the frustration (anti DCE vitriol) is warranted in most cases.

When you are the highest paid player in the NRL, on one of the longest contracts, the captain and experienced rep player and you drop the ball that leads to the game winning try after 73mins of brilliant footy - it’s inevitable it will be met with frustration.
He’s paid well enough to expect those mistakes will not happen - and especially at such a crucial game defining moment.
And with DCE, the inconsistencies happen far too often (in relation to his salary).

With respect, your questions are just all hypotheticals and I don’t really care to answer as it’s subjective and everyone’s opinions on “what could of been” will be different.

My post was simply to point out that DCE is overpaid for what he produces on the field. He’s too inconsistent to ever be worth the money he is on.

If you are suggesting a teams strategy for recruitment/retention never ever changes (and I don’t think you are, I just think you’re being cheeky) then that’s a ridiculous conclusion.

Those that decided DCEs 8yr 10million contract have left the club.
The decision was a panicked desperate contract (backflip) which is unlikely to happen again.
The situation of coming out of a decade of dominance is unlikely to happen again.
All which led to a recruitment decision that I genuinely believe the club will never make again.
 
Bencher
T

That's the thing - the difference between his floor and ceiling in terms of his Manly performances is just too wide.

To be great you have to be consistent. And we never know whether DCE will turn up with a 2/10 performance or a 9/10.

Guys like Cleary and Reynolds at least give you a 6 or 7 out of 10 at their worst.
Coincidence that this seems to be Manlys issue?…
We have seasons of brilliance and then seasons of just missing the spoon. That’s happened over the last decade.

I wonder if Manlys inconsistencies between best and worst are related to DCEs performances - or is DCE the victim of Manlys inconsistent performances.

My brain hurts.
 
Bencher
Good points.
Just on the option 'might have tried to develop one' (a top 3 half) - not very easy to do, they are scarce as hens teeth. Eg we had Hynes and didn't see his potential (and he's still not proven as a top 3 half), we had Cust. Elgey? In fact only one club has developed a top 3 half since Cleary debuted way back in 2016. Croft, Nikorima, Taylor, Flanagan, on it goes. The list of next-big-things-that-weren't is long and painful
Agree, mate. Good halves are hard to find and will always be valued higher than other players. It's why Ash Taylor, Anthony Milford and even Kane Elgey were given big contracts. It's also why clubs tend to hang onto their halves (with the possible exception of Souths) even though it'd be better for the player and the club to part ways (eg, Luke Brooks). And it's definitely why Manly became panic buyers for DCE's services once it became apparent that we could lose both our champion halves in Foran and DCE - especially after we'd lost Des and most of his staff to the Bulldogs. It made sense at the time, I guess. But it's made less sense as time has gone on.
 
Reserve Grader
I can't recall ever seeing as much anti-DCE vitriol as I have in the last few days, some of it (not yours Batty) is so over the top it is quite hilarious and not worth bothering with. As I say, not yours, your comment is reasonable and moderate. However, couple of quick questions for you:

  • If we've had such underwhelming results with a top 5 halfback, how bad would we have been if we had a 6th 8th or 10th ranked hafback? Or worse?
  • Alternatively, how much would we have had to pay to get a top 3 halfback (whoever you think that was at the time, or at any time)? (And please let's not pretend we could ever have signed Cronk or Thurston or Cleary for less than closer to 2 million per year).
  • And lastly ... why do you say our salary cap situation will improve after DCE is gone? It's the Manly club that has planned our cap strategy. Why would that suddenly change?


(and by the way! Although I'm probably seen as a DCE defender that is not the case, I defend him against some criticisms but by no means all of them)
I think the penny has finally dropped. For years we all excused his awful performances because he had no 5/8 remember? Literally the only point of attack, he was pressured and targeted so easily by oppositions that laying any sort of blame on him seemed unfair and unjustified. With Foran back, nothing has actually changed with DCE. With the exception of a great long kicking game (shame he can't get repeat sets with a non-existent short kicking game), the clutch field goal from right in front, and the 2 or 3 40/20s a season, it's the same crap we've seen for years. 0 composure, 0 game management, 0 leadership.

Extending Cherry, and letting go of Foz (even Walker) for mine is just unacceptable decision making in terms of value, culture, and straight up footy. Nothing personal against him, but unfortunately when I look at him these days, he is now become just a reminder, a symbol, of Manly's demise over the last decade
 
Bencher
Dce is deadset like a Koala- a protected species. Why I have no idea.
He’s outlasted Toovey
He’s outlasted Barrett
And will probably outlast Des.

Yet the media don’t mention it? WTF

First coach to drop him or boot him will win us a Premiership again, question is who will see through his smarmy suck up shiiiite. And overrated ability??
 
Reserve Grader
I think the penny has finally dropped. For years we all excused his awful performances because he had no 5/8 remember? Literally the only point of attack, he was pressured and targeted so easily by oppositions that laying any sort of blame on him seemed unfair and unjustified. With Foran back, nothing has actually changed with DCE. With the exception of a great long kicking game (shame he can't get repeat sets with a non-existent short kicking game), the clutch field goal from right in front, and the 2 or 3 40/20s a season, it's the same crap we've seen for years. 0 composure, 0 game management, 0 leadership.

Extending Cherry, and letting go of Foz (even Walker) for mine is just unacceptable decision making in terms of value, culture, and straight up footy. Nothing personal against him, but unfortunately when I look at him these days, he is now become just a reminder, a symbol, of Manly's demise over the last decade

Getting Foran back at his price has been the best Manly signing since Jamie Lyon... really shows us where the value is in the halves and where it isn't
 
Bencher
I wonder how Cleary is feeling ???

Maroons V NSW

Head to Head
DCE tackles 23 Cleary 20
DCE run metres 83 Cleary 49
DCE tackle busts 3 Cleary 2
DCE tries 1 Cleary Zero
DCE line breaks 1 Cleary Zero
Cleary and NSW losers DCE Hero
Hmmmm...
This needs to be revisited when the Australian team is named
 
Official NRL commentator of the UK Royal Family
Premium Member
ah **** it! let's just sign luke brooks and be done with it. He's only on 1.1million next year so a bargin compared to the most hated man on the planet!

History and fans' memories judge players sometimes in less than flattering lights.

My favorite manly player ever is Mic O'Connor. I grew up mesmerized by his ability and all-around skill. In their primes, it would be hard to separate both him and Jamie Lyon in my opinion. however, given his role in the superleague war, he's not very well-liked around these parts. I feel DCE gets the same treatment.

back on point thou. we have had some pretty rubbish years over the last 8 or 9 and I don't buy into the fact it's all one player's fault. The club dropped the ball when signing. just like they did with Des. They dropped the ball big time with twenty and we are only now recovering.
 
Tragic
Premium Member
Brooks like DCE is not a leader. IMO the problem is not with DCE's athletic ability, but rather it's what's going on in his head when he has ball in hand. His decision making and the points of a game when some are made is at times just awful. He needs to be reeled by the coach and to be required to provide early ball in space to those outside of him (Big O, Koula) and be banned from cutting back inside. If he doesn't follow instructions then bench him Des and use him a back up dummy half. Interestingly DCE does what he is told when he plays Origin where he plays a secondary role in attack and in game management. That is a good fit for him.
 
Bencher
ah **** it! let's just sign luke brooks and be done with it. He's only on 1.1million next year so a bargin compared to the most hated man on the planet!

History and fans' memories judge players sometimes in less than flattering lights.

My favorite manly player ever is Mic O'Connor. I grew up mesmerized by his ability and all-around skill. In their primes, it would be hard to separate both him and Jamie Lyon in my opinion. however, given his role in the superleague war, he's not very well-liked around these parts. I feel DCE gets the same treatment.

back on point thou. we have had some pretty rubbish years over the last 8 or 9 and I don't buy into the fact it's all one player's fault. The club dropped the ball when signing. just like they did with Des. They dropped the ball big time with twenty and we are only now recovering.
No one is suggesting DCE has done anything wrong (in re to his contract) - I would gladly do the same thing.
Absolutely the club screwed up big time.

And don’t get me wrong, it’s fine to pay players $1.25m —- if you get what you pay for. We haven’t.
The highest paid player in the game should provide something similar to what Smith did for the Storm. A legacy. A near faultless record.

In re to Brooks - The Tigers have realised that as Brooks contract increase has occurred, he’s now ceased to provide value for money, so will hopefully move him on. That’s smart business.

Always about value for money.

DCE being the highest paid player in the comp, hasn’t ever (in my opinion) been the best player in the comp over his time with the Eagles. That’s the issue. That’s not to say he isn’t a good player. It’s just not value for money - which flows into the 30 man squad.

Taupau’s backended contract means he doesn’t provide value for money.

If Turbo doesn’t get his body to a point where he can play consistently through a season, he will also begin to become a “poor value” contract.

It’s all about managing the cap and getting the best value for money. DCE doesn’t provide that and that’s why he draws so much criticism.
 
Reserve Grader
ah **** it! let's just sign luke brooks and be done with it. He's only on 1.1million next year so a bargin compared to the most hated man on the planet!

History and fans' memories judge players sometimes in less than flattering lights.

My favorite manly player ever is Mic O'Connor. I grew up mesmerized by his ability and all-around skill. In their primes, it would be hard to separate both him and Jamie Lyon in my opinion. however, given his role in the superleague war, he's not very well-liked around these parts. I feel DCE gets the same treatment.

back on point thou. we have had some pretty rubbish years over the last 8 or 9 and I don't buy into the fact it's all one player's fault. The club dropped the ball when signing. just like they did with Des. They dropped the ball big time with twenty and we are only now recovering.
Obviously it's not one player's fault. You are right in that it is the club who screwed up majorly... but to double down and extend his contract at the expense of Foz is mind boggling
 
I’m sure the club paid big money for dce in the hopes he would lead the club to success..so the club’s responsible for that mistake..dce either thinks he is worth the coin he is being paid or he laughs very loudly at home rolling around creating an angel shape on a bed full of $100 notes
 
Sea Eagle Lach
Staff member
Premium Member
No one is suggesting DCE has done anything wrong (in re to his contract) - I would gladly do the same thing.
Absolutely the club screwed up big time.

And don’t get me wrong, it’s fine to pay players $1.25m —- if you get what you pay for. We haven’t.
The highest paid player in the game should provide something similar to what Smith did for the Storm. A legacy. A near faultless record.

In re to Brooks - The Tigers have realised that as Brooks contract increase has occurred, he’s now ceased to provide value for money, so will hopefully move him on. That’s smart business.

Always about value for money.

DCE being the highest paid player in the comp, hasn’t ever (in my opinion) been the best player in the comp over his time with the Eagles. That’s the issue. That’s not to say he isn’t a good player. It’s just not value for money - which flows into the 30 man squad.

Taupau’s backended contract means he doesn’t provide value for money.

If Turbo doesn’t get his body to a point where he can play consistently through a season, he will also begin to become a “poor value” contract.

It’s all about managing the cap and getting the best value for money. DCE doesn’t provide that and that’s why he draws so much criticism.
No doubt like most clubs we'd have a few who could be considered overpaid, but - just curious - which of our players would you say are underpaid? And how happy do you think they are about that? @:D
 
Journey Man
No doubt like most clubs we'd have a few who could be considered overpaid, but - just curious - which of our players would you say are underpaid? And how happy do you think they are about that? @:D

I'd say if you base success from results, then 90% of our players are overpaid. You could also pay for potential (and in this area we are much better off).

In 2011, DCE had Foz, B. Stewart, G, Stewart, Lyon, Matai, Hopoate, Robertson, Ballin, Choc, Menzies, Kite, Rodney and so many others carrying him. As soon as those players left / retired, and DCE had to hold his own in a reduced quality roster, the results are there for everyone to see.

The start of last season (4 losses), and the back-half of the season before, we posted record breaking losses, stats, and loss streaks.
 
In for the long haul.
Premium Member
2016 Tipping Competitor
No doubt like most clubs we'd have a few who could be considered overpaid, but - just curious - which of our players would you say are underpaid? And how happy do you think they are about that? @:D
Funny you should say that. That was my first thought as our lesser paid players lay spent on the ground at full time last week while the game's highest paid player joked with his Maroon mates.
 
Bencher
No doubt like most clubs we'd have a few who could be considered overpaid, but - just curious - which of our players would you say are underpaid? And how happy do you think they are about that? @:D
With the benefit of the high profile players mentioned above having their contracts discussed amongst the media, it’s fair to assume there’s some truth to the estimates.

With guys like Tuipolotu, Saab, Garrick, Parker, Davey, Ola, Paseka etc not being high profile (some may turn out to be) it’s a bit harder to assume their salaries.

In re to your point regarding player happiness, I have zero doubt that the boys who are consistently performing would be comparing their pay packets to the leagues highest and it would be creating some unrest.
No different than any other workplace.
 
Team P W L PD Pts
15 14 1 298 28
14 11 3 209 24
15 11 4 181 22
14 9 5 68 20
14 9 5 57 20
14 9 5 36 20
14 7 7 21 16
14 7 7 -72 16
15 7 8 29 14
15 7 8 -4 14
15 7 8 -39 14
14 4 10 -178 10
15 4 11 -107 8
14 3 11 -168 8
15 4 11 -185 8
15 3 12 -146 6
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