Cody Walker has refused to sing the Australian anthem

[Shoe1]

Shoe1 I understand your problems with the anthem. I'm not all that enamoured by it myself. But lets get it in context. Though an original version was written way back in 1878, it was the amended version that was used in the inauguration of Australia as a nation state January 1 1901. Therefore the words are meant to relate to Australia as a nation state from 1901, which it wasn't before that either for Europeans or Indigenous Australians. Before 1901 the Australian continent was initially a large collection of Indigenous societies linked only by trade and passing on of information and then when Europeans arrived it was a number of separate colonies under British authority.

Therefore discussing our convict past in relation to the Independent state of Australia is like calling the separate states on the Italian peninsula, Italy before 1861, or calling the Germanic states, Germany before 1871. Sure our heritage relates to pre 1901, but Australia as a nation did now exist before 1901 and the words relate to that nation that was formed at that time. This is why I think our national day should be January 1, relating to Federation, not the arrival of a ragtag bunch of ships carrying convicts. Convict transportation ended in 1868 and most were free by the 1870s. The last transported convict died in 1938, a free man

So land that is 'young and free' relates to post 1901, not 1788. Mind you with the White Australia Policy immediately being instituted some were freer than others and as you well know the Indigenous population were not recognised until 1967 (a quite shameful situation but consistent with the attitudes of the time)

Thanks for that thoughtful response bearfax.

I agree the song was written in the context of a new beginning as a nation, written in the lead up to that moment in 1901. For that reason I see it as an aspirational lyric, maybe bordering on propaganda.

Being free or bond (ie convict) was a very big deal up until 1842 in NSW and even though transportation stopped then in NSW it continued elsewhere. And not every NSW convict was free until well after 1860. You rightly mention WA and the last transported convicts living into the 20th century.

The next few generations covered up this heritage, with many families claiming they were descended from free settlers. So “free” was a laden term in 1878, eagerly adopted by those with a past to hide.

To be young and free in 1901 was a statement - a young nation trying to smooth over the convict past, and paying no heed to the 40,000 year old culture that also inhabited the land.

 

[StuBoot]

It's an amazing feeling to be in truly united crowed singing passionately about something.
I doubt anyone is singing like that for Advance Australia Fair though. In many ways it is a shame that the only thing that truly unites people seems to be a common enemy.

And that is exactly the problem and where the debate should be.
When do say, enough is enough - this is our f&^king flag, this is our f%$king anthem - they have been for well over a 100 years.
There will always be something in the song, flag, constitution that isn't relevant to all and will be less so in the future but for the good of the country moving forward we can't keep having this debate
stirred up by agitators in the media..

Do we change our flag and anthem every 50 years to appease different groups/cultures? Will that make them happy?
That's why we'll never be like Scotland singing Flower of Scotland because we'll never be allowed to maintain our history.
We always seem to be defending our right to be who we are as Australians.

 

[MuzztheEagle]

And that is exactly the problem and where the debate should be.
When do say, enough is enough - this is our f&^king flag, this is our f%$king anthem - they have been for well over a 100 years.
There will always be something in the song, flag, constitution that isn't relevant to all and will be less so in the future but for the good of the country moving forward we can't keep having this debate
stirred up by agitators in the media..

Do we change our flag and anthem every 50 years to appease different groups/cultures? Will that make them happy?
That's why we'll never be like Scotland singing Flower of Scotland because we'll never be allowed to maintain our history.
We always seem to be defending our right to be who we are as Australians.

Nah mate,
There are plenty of unionists in Scotland who would refuse to sing that song...and would attempt to punch the lights out of anyone who told them they had to.
I doubt there is a country out there that pleases even 99% of its population. This is not an Australian problem and it's one reason why there are several countries in the world that simply don't have words for their anthems.
If you want to get to the heart of the Australian debate then you need to understand that the issue is far bigger than a simple change of anthems and flags. For generations the indigenous population has felt excluded from the general population of Australia and has suffered greatly from the rule of British colonialists.
Sure you can claim that those born today have the same opportunities as everybody else and that we cannot undo the crimes of the past but statistically, to be born into an indigenous family in Australia puts you at a disadvantage to the majority of the population. Until this gap is filled this animosity to the traditions of the past will always continue for those that continue to suffer from them. And, even then it will still take generations to heal the wounds of the past.
Cody Walker is not calling for things to change but is simply expressing where he comes from and that he has less respect for some of the countries traditions (as many of us do for different reasons). Yes there will always be agitators - it sells papers and gets clicks, but if you want to fight that then stop reacting - stop pushing back against an argument that wasn't really there in the first place. There are more important discussions to be had; like how do we close the gap in a respectful and effective way and what does a working Australia that is truly inclusive and respectful really look like.

 

[Bearfax]

Thanks for that thoughtful response bearfax.

I agree the song was written in the context of a new beginning as a nation, written in the lead up to that moment in 1901. For that reason I see it as an aspirational lyric, maybe bordering on propaganda.

Being free or bond (ie convict) was a very big deal up until 1842 in NSW and even though transportation stopped then in NSW it continued elsewhere. And not every NSW convict was free until well after 1860. You rightly mention WA and the last transported convicts living into the 20th century.

The next few generations covered up this heritage, with many families claiming they were descended from free settlers. So “free” was a laden term in 1878, eagerly adopted by those with a past to hide.

To be young and free in 1901 was a statement - a young nation trying to smooth over the convict past, and paying no heed to the 40,000 year old culture that also inhabited the land.

I agree that it was propaganda, as all anthems are, and that we have much in our history that is shameful. Certainly our treatment of Indigenous Australians was shameful, as was our treatment of Chinese living here and the Kanakas. But in the context of the attitudes of the time it was quite consistent with the racial attitudes world wide. We see it as shameful because we've been raised in a different age and a different world view, and thanks to certain degree of scientific study a recognition that despite the claims of the nineteenth century, there is very little difference genetically throughout the human species as a whole.

The differences affecting us today are primarily cultural, though there remains a lot of racial suspicion among many (the fear of the tribe over the hill). Today we are horrified by the Lindt café incident and of course 7/11. We have little to say of the tens of thousands killed in Iraq and Syria, partly as a result of Western and Russian chess games. Humans in general can be very nasty pieces of work but they can also be the opposite. All seems to relate to vested interests

 

[ricardo]

My Chinese friend says an athlete would probably "disappear" for a while if he tried to do that in China.

 

[grassy]

Those that stand for nothing ... fall for anything ..

Yea anything but politics.I can live with that if everyone else can. The last thing I would do mate is sing praises for the very organisation that kicks me in the guts. That’s not to mention the rest of society that votes them in then complains when something don’t go their way. I will choose freewill. I know a song about that. Nothing worse than an aimless dance.

 

[Ranga]

Interesting that Kurtley Beale says he has no problem with singing the anthem and sees other initiatives helping towards reconciliation.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/...t/news-story/1c9fc0bf423b6dce1b0bd7ba976a045f

 

[grassy]

This ones for you Cody.

 

[HappilyManly]

https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/05/29/arlc-pledges-support-for-uluru-statement/

 

[Narrabeen Laker]

I agree that it was propaganda, as all anthems are, and that we have much in our history that is shameful. Certainly our treatment of Indigenous Australians was shameful, as was our treatment of Chinese living here and the Kanakas. But in the context of the attitudes of the time it was quite consistent with the racial attitudes world wide. We see it as shameful because we've been raised in a different age and a different world view, and thanks to certain degree of scientific study a recognition that despite the claims of the nineteenth century, there is very little difference genetically throughout the human species as a whole.

The differences affecting us today are primarily cultural, though there remains a lot of racial suspicion among many (the fear of the tribe over the hill). Today we are horrified by the Lindt café incident and of course 7/11. We have little to say of the tens of thousands killed in Iraq and Syria, partly as a result of Western and Russian chess games. Humans in general can be very nasty pieces of work but they can also be the opposite. All seems to relate to vested interests

You keep saying ‘our’ treatment of aborigines etc . As far as I can see aborigines today are treated in a lot of ways better than non indigenous people . My mates child goes to a $30000 a year school for nothing simply because he is aboriginal . He also enjoys a home loan that is cheaper than mine .

 

[Bring back the.... Biff?]

Our country is relatively young and free.

It’s not like we live in an communist country or under sharia law.

We live in a great free country

Exactly we are free! Free to do whatever we like. Walkers kids are free hes free whats his problem ?

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

Yes,

And that is exactly the problem and where the debate should be.
When do say, enough is enough - this is our f&^king flag, this is our f%$king anthem - they have been for well over a 100 years.
There will always be something in the song, flag, constitution that isn't relevant to all and will be less so in the future but for the good of the country moving forward we can't keep having this debate
stirred up by agitators in the media..

Do we change our flag and anthem every 50 years to appease different groups/cultures? Will that make them happy?
That's why we'll never be like Scotland singing Flower of Scotland because we'll never be allowed to maintain our history.
We always seem to be defending our right to be who we are as Australians.

it has only been the anthem since the 1980s referendum. As for the ‘Britain by night’ flag, well each to their own.

Perfectly understandable that an indigenous Australian would not like to sing it. If I was in his shoes, I wouldn’t either. It’s a forgettable dirge anyway.

But really this whole thread is ‘mountain out of a molehill’ stuff. The sort of confected outrage (from some forum members) one might hear from intellectual peasants like Jones, Hadley or Smith on 2GB or its affiliates. Who cares if in a free country, someone doesn’t want to sing the anthem? They have a perfect right not to.

 

[StuBoot]

We should all be like Primal Scream, Come Together and be (young ) and free

://youtu.be/Y3ixEzKA4k0

 

[Woodsie]

Yea anything but politics.I can live with that if everyone else can. The last thing I would do mate is sing praises for the very organisation that kicks me in the guts. That’s not to mention the rest of society that votes them in then complains when something don’t go their way. I will choose freewill. I know a song about that. Nothing worse than an aimless dance.

Goodness gracious ... that brought back memories of sitting on the floor in my kaftan. sporting my afro, drinking plastic cups of free flagon muscat at the communist front bookshop at the bottom of Harbord road in the late 60's during the Vietnam war .... and listening to the same dribble sprouted by the disaffected and unwashed psuedo intellectual art students ...

But at 16 I outgrew it ....

 

[bob dylan]

When I attend Cold Chisel shows I refuse to sing Khe Sahn.

 

[Woodsie]

Being free

My guess is the young and free is a reference in to Australia as a Nation ... and not the status of Individuals upon arrival generations earlier ....

 

[R3]

I think it is tome to change the anthem.

Lots of it grate on quite a few Australians.

Especially “young and free”, which was aspirational propaganda at the time it was written.

This is an ancient culture, and many indigenous people don’t feel free.

And many white ancestors came here in chains.

The reason I prefer the New Zealand anthem over Australia’s is because it has a verse in English and a verse in Maori.

It would be nice if Australia’s anthem had a verse in English and a verse in native Indigenous.

I realise one problem with that idea is there’s over 200 versions of aboriginal language (all tribes have their own dialect)

But I can’t give a toss if Cody doesn’t wanna sing the anthem. He is ‘young and free’ to sing when he wants. Won’t be the first or last player to do so. Just the first in a while to announce that beforehand.

I’ve got white and indigenous heritage and they were all in chains when they first met up in Australia.

In America they brought boat loads of Africans to their shores in chains.
In Australia they brought boat loads of Brits to the shores in chains, but the oppressive nature only lasted on the ones that were innocent of any wrong doing.

If Cody dropped to a knee during the anthem like Colin Kaepernick did in the NFL, I could almost see a real story there, but this is nothing..

Now over to Anthony Mundine.. then Game 2.. then the next ‘controversy’


Go the Blues

Go Manly!

 

[Bring back the.... Biff?]

**** Cody Walker, hope he enjoys his 15 minutes of fame.
Whether the stupid prick sings it or not is irrelevant. The fact he says he won’t identifies him as a divisive fool.

I agree just don't sing it dont come out and make a fuss about it. Now chambers has come out saying this and that its pay walled D.T but same rubbish. Wah wah wah doesnt represent me fmd i think the anthem is nice and represents the values of Australia. If they dont want to sing good luck to them no one would care but them making a fuss is just pathetic what do they want the nrl to change the anthem

 

[pt73]

Evidently Will Chambers has joined in and will also not sing the national anthem.

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

Chambers just trying to cover up the fact that he will be whimpering during the anthem knowing that he will be made Mitchell’s bitch in a big game yet again