ASADA Going Shark Fishing

[Dan]

Guessing that there is no incriminating phone tap information and at best

Well if you both use blackberry phones you cannot be tapped. So if you are paranoid and don't want the Feds listening in just use these phones.

Not true blackberry have android phones and android phones are easy as piss to toy with. If you can get 5 mins alone with an android you can install all sorts of things that open it right up and do all through detective work for you

 

[Dan]

For that matter facebook is one of the better places to keep things away from prying eyes I am told

 

[swoop]

The poor old sharks;

It's been reported in news ltd that the sharks players were injected with a banned horse growth hormone. And in the smh there are accusations that players took under the table payments fron a previous sponsor.

 

[MWSE]

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/sharks-allege-coverup-20130309-2fsj7.html

^^^^^^^^^^
This is the most thorough article covering all the Sharks woes. Written by Roy Masters.

I really think we are seeing the end of the Cronulla-Sutherland Sharks here. More and more I feel like they are going to be forced to relocate.

 

[robbiea]

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/sharks-allege-coverup-20130309-2fsj7.html

^^^^^^^^^^
This is the most thorough article covering all the Sharks woes. Written by Roy Masters.

I really think we are seeing the end of the Cronulla-Sutherland Sharks here. More and more I feel like they are going to be forced to relocate.

Doesnt look good for Sharkies , Its really looking bad for everyone who had anything to do with Dank..This is a big worry.

 

[Brissie Kid]

Mal Meninga writes in Brisbane. He has got this 100% right. The game's leaders have to stand up to ASADA and the government not sit by while the code is bludgeoned to death.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/nrl/its-time-for-arlc-ceo-david-smith-to-stand-in-front-of-the-rugby-league-family-and-tell-them-whats-what/story-e6frepbf-1226593992265

Where were our leaders, taking charge and defending the reputation and image of the game?

 

[susan]

It may well get bigger lsz. But I'll keep coming back to the fact that there has yet to be a single criminal charge laid in relation to any of this. All I now see is ASADA putting massive pressure on the Sharks to force their players to stand down via self incrimination.
The Sharks are trying to make the players sign a waiver that they won't sue the club and in return, the players will still get paid and each have an additional year placed on their contracts with the club.

Why would the Sharks be willing to effectively extend the contracts of drug cheats?
Can't you see something smells terribly foul?

I you want to keep this ïts all a beat up line going(and that is your prerogative) at least get the basics right.

There will never be any "criminal charges" as you suggest against players unless they are revealed to be trafficking or distributing illegal drugs. The current issue re the use of these drugs are a matter for the sports and the drug codes they are signatories to and have no criminal component in relation to usage. The fact that athletes can currently refuse an interview with ASADA if they so desire is a clear example of the lack of the element of criminality.

The second piece of misinformation that both Magnay and Masters identified but has escaped the general public is that these drugs do not have to be on a banned list to be illegal. If they involve human growth hormone or have similar physiological effects they are covered in a broad section. This is a provision that logically covers compounds that have not been discovered by the authorities/are not for human use etc. It allows the authorities to keep pace without having to label each drug specifically.The drugs at the centre of this investigation at the Sharks do involve human growth hormones and are used to treat viscerally obese aids patients and horses. Ill let you make your own mind up on whether you would want players injecting those substances.

The third and most simple point is that ASADA do not investigate the use of legal substances at all.If the drugs were legal at the time there is no investigation. Simple point but lost on most.

The obvious answer to this is simply wait and see.ASADA will present it evidence,the players will forcefully present their defence which is their absolute right and we will get a better idea of what challenges the game face.

Setting aside the point as to the legality/illegality of these drugs for a moment people seem to be missing the bigger issue. As a parent and someone involved in the game, how has our great game come to the point where we have to use substances that are used for animals, aids patients etc to gain advantage.Even if these compounds are legal should we not be worried about where we are heading.All this can be traced back to the search for athletes over footballers,power over precision and rotation over fatigue.

Weekly needles to prepare for Sunday seems almost acceptable.Do we want that?

 

[Brissie Kid]

The obvious answer to this is simply wait and see.ASADA will present it evidence,the players will forcefully present their defence which is their absolute right and we will get a better idea of what challenges the game face.

Except that as best as anyone can tell from the media reports, and ASADA saying it is not in a position to issue breach notices to the NRL in regard to any player, how much 'evidence' ASADA has opposed to theory and speculation is questionable.

If the ex ASADA boss' claim yesterday that ASADA's methods at Cronulla will be a blueprint for investigations at other NRL & AFL clubs then what are to make of that?

All I see is that ASADA visits clubs and shakes the tree so hard hoping that someone panics and gives up something worth investigating.

 

[susan]

All I see is that ASADA visits clubs and shakes the tree so hard hoping that someone panics and gives up something worth investigating.
[/quote]

Which is exactly how they caught Armstrong and most other offenders.Positive drug tests are a very small part of the puzzle these days due to the sophistication of the cheats. As a fan, I,like you,find it frustrating but if this stuff is going on it is a small price to pay to get rid of it in my opinion.

What I find more worrying is there seems to be this idea that its not a problem unless someone gets caught with a needle in his arm and a bottle of horse hormone behind him.Otherwise its business as usual.These things are notoriously difficult to prosecute.Cycling tried that.It didn't work.

To be honest I am more interested in the procedures,controls and personel they put in to deal with this in the NRL going forward than what has happened in the past.That will come out in the wash,players will be found to be both guilty and not guilty and there will be short term pain.its the future that matters more.

 

[mickqld]

Weekly needles to prepare for Sunday seems almost acceptable.Do we want that?

Choc's ribs need it. Whats the difference ? He couldn't possibly play without painkillers.

 

[susan]

Im obviously not talking about painkillers Mick,which have been in general use in our game for years and given the physicality of the game,are probably essential.And they do not change a players strength or power over time which is the very reason they are legal in our game.

I might be old fashioned but getting intravenous injections of horse or greyhound hormones on a regular basis is something I would rather not become a legal and common practise in our game.

 

[mickqld]

Im obviously not talking about painkillers Mick,which have been in general use in our game for years and given the physicality of the game,are probably essential.And they do not change a players strength or power over time which is the very reason they are legal in our game.

I might be old fashioned but getting intravenous injections of horse or greyhound hormones on a regular basis is something I would rather not become a legal and common practise in our game.

I agree with you totally BUT in the literal sense if we talk about a single performance enhancing drug then the painkiller injection that Choc took on Fri allowed him to play at near peak performance compared to him sitting on the bench if he didn't. Just saying.

 

[susan]

see your point too Mick.I suppose I think our game is simply too physical to not allow them. Most teams would be hard pressed to get three grades on the field each week without them, such is the punishment they get.

 

[Brissie Kid]

There's no evidence the drugs supposedly taken by the Sharks are performance enhancing. They are seemingly used to aid injury repair and recovery. How is that different to a headache tablet or painkiller injection that lets you play through the pain barrier? Take premierships off teams that used painkillers now?

Say nothing: lawyers advice to Essendon

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/16091014/say-nothing-lawyers-advice-to-essendon/

The lawyer who represented suspended Swan Districts premiership player Travis Casserly during his drugs hearing has urged Essendon players to remain silent and force the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority to prove they took drugs that were performance-enhancing.

Perth lawyer Simon Watters defended Casserly after he tested positive to pseudoephedrine following the 2010 WAFL grand final.

Casserly received a two-year ban after taking Sudafed. Bombers players risk being suspended for the same amount of time if found guilty. Essendon asked the AFL and ASADA to investigate the club when doubts were raised about the legality of supplements given to players last season. No player has tested positive to illegal drugs and the Bombers are confident they've done nothing wrong.

They have guaranteed the full co-operation of everyone at the club, but Watters said players should avoid answering questions.

"If I was defending a player, my advice would be to exercise your right to silence," Watters said.

"On the one hand you're saying co-operate and say 'I took the supplement', but there's no actual test. There's no samples that have been obtained, there's no blood or urine samples to say you were positive on this day. There's nothing like that.

"How are ASADA ever going to establish that a particular player took it on a particular day or it was in their system on a particular day?

"It may well be that Essendon have got all these medical records that show on the 5th of June, we gave all our senior squad X or Y.

"Even that wouldn't be enough to pin a player.

"A player could say 'no, that's not right. That's wrong. That didn't happen'. So my advice would be to remain silent."

Sacked employee Stephen Dank has denied giving the players banned substances. Yesterday it emerged that Bombers coach James Hird received dietary advice from convicted drug trafficker Shane Charter - the man who allegedly supplied Dank with supplements - during the early 2000s.

Another sports lawyer said Essendon players could throw themselves at the mercy of ASADA.

The lawyer, who did not want to be named, said players could reduce any bans from two years to six months by co-operating in a club-triggered investigation because the anti-doping code had a special assistance clause.

Former Bomber Mark McVeigh is adamant the supplements were approved by doctors after checking the WADA code. Watters said McVeigh's revelation that players signed consent forms after being guaranteed the supplements were not illegal meant they could take legal action against the club if ASADA found the supplements were banned.

"If I was defending a player, my advice would be to exercise your right to silence."" Perth lawyer *Simon Watters *

 

[Ron E. Gibbs]

To be honest I am more interested in the procedures,controls and personel they put in to deal with this in the NRL going forward than what has happened in the past

This would obviously be the sensible approach. Unfortunately, given the way this has been handled and the grandstanding involved, there needs to be a scapegoat or two. Even more unfortunately, it appears that scapegoat is going to be rugby league, and specifically the Sharks. How the AFL manages to escape genuine scrutiny - its ridiculous recreational drugs policy and now this - is beyond me.

 

[manlyfan76]

Guessing that there is no incriminating phone tap information and at best

Well if you both use blackberry phones you cannot be tapped. So if you are paranoid and don't want the Feds listening in just use these phones.

Not true blackberry have android phones and android phones are easy as piss to toy with. If you can get 5 mins alone with an android you can install all sorts of things that open it right up and do all through detective work for you

I know you can install taps but not line taps.

 

[Brissie Kid]

Just to remind the rumour mongers.

Manly say they have nothing to hide
By Ian McCullough and Joe Barton
20:21 AEST Thu Feb 7 2013

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8606521

Manly's head of strength and conditioning Donny Singe is adamant nothing untoward has taken place in the NRL club's sports science department.

The well-respected Singe, a former lower-grade player with the club, was recruited by former coach Des Hasler in 2003.

Sport scientist Stephen Dank worked under Singe at Manly from 2006 until 2010, before joining AFL club Essendon, who this week became the subject of an anti-doping probe over possible misuse of supplements.

Dank has denied any wrongdoing and Singe said his department, which was investigated by independent auditors Deloitte on Thursday, had done nothing wrong.

The probe followed the findings from the Australian Crime Commission investigation on Thursday that's engulfed professional sport in this country.

"What we are dealing with here is a couple of individuals who are being investigated for a process they have followed," Singe said on Thursday.

"I wouldn't want to comment on what that process is. But from my point of view at this club, we've always followed the rules to the letter with ASADA.

"I was Des' right-hand man and I am very confident we have done nothing wrong under my watch."

Manly have been at the cutting edge of sports science in the NRL, including using calves' blood to treat soft tissue injuries.

Singe said he's proud of the club's recent achievements, which culminated in two premierships in the past six years, and the right protocols have always followed.

"I've had the privilege of working with some very experienced and capable players and we have a strong trust relationship," he said.

"I'm involved in all our processes. As for supplementation, every club uses them. Ours is BSC.

"In terms of the medical aspects, our former doctor Dr Paul Bloomfield and the physio worked very closely to ensure everything was above board.

"We all know about the calves' blood and we all know it was legal.

"But we don't use it any more as there was not enough merit in it."

Singe said it would be almost impossible for players to have drugs or injections administered outside of their clubs without raising suspicion.

"If you were injecting outside of your medical team and outside of the club's guidelines, then I would be very surprised," he said.

"Players talk all the time - it's a network. It comes down to a very commonsense attitude. It's a duty of care.

"At my club, the head coach I had at the time and the head coach I have now, they are very particular people. We are always safeguarding our players."

Current coach Geoff Toovey welcomed the investigation and said his club has nothing to hide.

"It was a decision from the NRL and we're fully participating and cooperating," Toovey told AAP on Thursday.

"We'll do whatever necessary to ensure the sport in general is as clean as possible. We believe that is a must in our sport.

"As far as we're concerned, we've never had a problem here and we follow all procedures and protocols that have been put in place by the league."

 

[captaincarpo]

This was posted on NRL banter the other day. I commented that they could be in trouble for posting names, I got abused for suggesting that. Thought I would share it.

---

They then changed it to this. So they obviously took my advice, then banned me!

 

[Matabele]

If that rumour were true its worth noting Smith was with the Storm too.

 

[captaincarpo]

Personally I think it is a rubbish rumour. The whole thing at the sharks has a Spanish Inquisition feel to it! If you confess you're damned and if you don't confess we will ban you anyway, even though we can't find enough evidence and you never failed a drugs test!