The No-Look News (Schuster Chronicles)

[Woodsie]

Ask this question though. How would Foran perform as a second rower? How would he have performed as a second rower ten years ago? Sure Schuster is a bigger unit, but he was brought through the juniors in the last years as a 5/8. Suddenly he's expected to be a second rower because he played there early in his junior years. That's a big ask for a young player. I doubt Foran would have coped.

Probably not ... but what would have been evident is his 100% effort and desire ... there would never be any debate about whether he had "it" ... "it" would have stood out like a donkey's dick on a sausage dog ..

 

[40 nil]

I think with both Walker & Foran gone, Schuster's ball playing skills will be almost indispensable for the team.

 

[DaveLP]

Probably not ... but what would have been evident is his 100% effort and desire ... there would never be any debate about whether he had "it" ... "it" would have stood out like a donkey's dick on a sausage dog ..

People need to understand that every first graders mental health are not equal. Shoe is young live and learn. We have all seen what he can do when he's healthy and firing. Can't wait for next year with him running the show from 6 and turbo fit we might actually see something different in attack.
Too much ball playing and no actual threat has mainly been our problem under DCE foran walker and to a lesser extent Garrick Croker Jake. Surely with shoe there we won't end up any worse then we did this year...

 

[Bearfax]

Probably not ... but what would have been evident is his 100% effort and desire ... there would never be any debate about whether he had "it" ... "it" would have stood out like a donkey's dick on a sausage dog ..

Conjecture Woodsie. Dont misunderstand me. I have high regard for your comments as being easily among the most astute on this site and I dont say that to patronize. However I dont believe Foran would have survived in that position. He almost burn't himself out playing the way he did for Manly back in 2011 as 5/8 and many of us remarked about his kamikaze style that even then many thought would burn him out. In the second row he would most likely to have disappeared. Certain players have a style specifically suited to certain positions. Take them out of those positions and they suddenly lose their potency . I believe this has happened to Schuster and it also I believe would have happened to Foran in a different position. I remember it with Cliff Lyons playing for Norths. Looked talented at centre but I remember just how clever he was yet not noticed, except by a clever Manly recruiter. Change of position and suddenly he was a champion. We're like components in a machine. Put us in the wrong spot and we may function, but not to our optimum. Its a clever coach he recognises where those components fit. Maybe in the end Schuster doesnt fit as we hope. But its senseless to fit a square peg in a round hole

 

[Seagles68]

Conjecture Woodsie. Dont misunderstand me. I have high regard for your comments as being easily among the most astute on this site and I dont say that to patronize. However I dont believe Foran would have survived in that position. He almost burn't himself out playing the way he did for Manly back in 2011 as 5/8 and many of us remarked about his kamikaze style that even then many thought would burn him out. In the second row he would most likely to have disappeared. Certain players have a style specifically suited to certain positions. Take them out of those positions and they suddenly lose their potency . I believe this has happened to Schuster and it also I believe would have happened to Foran in a different position. I remember it with Cliff Lyons playing for Norths. Looked talented at centre but I remember just how clever he was yet not noticed, except by a clever Manly recruiter. Change of position and suddenly he was a champion. We're like components in a machine. Put us in the wrong spot and we may function, but not to our optimum. Its a clever coach he recognises where those components fit. Maybe in the end Schuster doesnt fit as we hope. But its senseless to fit a square peg in a round hole

Interested in your view Bearfax on your point about players having a specific style to certain positions and if that's part of our problem at the moment. I know it's a little of your post but I'm thinking about players like Schu (that I think is still potentially a very good 5/8 for us) but other players as well. Think Jake - he doesn;t quite fit a lock role and he's not quite a front rower type, Croker - not quite a 9 but not going to be in the halves, Parks - love his courage with his straight lines but not quite the centre game breaker we could use. And then the young blokes like Koula - playing him in the centres until Garrick's injury but now a question over whether he's a winger or a fullback (I still think he's a centre but that's just me). Anyway, what I'm wondering is - are we a bit all over the shop at the moment coz we just can't get all players married up to their best positions. Or am I just clutching?

 

[eagleron]

Schuster should star at 12.

Just like last year.

He did seem to go well there I thought, if he doesn't succeed at 6 he should be offered the 12 or an early exit, the ball is in his court

 

[Seagles68]

He did seem to go well there I thought, if he doesn't succeed at 6 he should be offered the 12 or an early exit, the ball is in his court

It's certainly a big year for him. And a lot of pressure, I reckon.

 

[Bearfax]

Interested in your view Bearfax on your point about players having a specific style to certain positions and if that's part of our problem at the moment. I know it's a little of your post but I'm thinking about players like Schu (that I think is still potentially a very good 5/8 for us) but other players as well. Think Jake - he doesn;t quite fit a lock role and he's not quite a front rower type, Croker - not quite a 9 but not going to be in the halves, Parks - love his courage with his straight lines but not quite the centre game breaker we could use. And then the young blokes like Koula - playing him in the centres until Garrick's injury but now a question over whether he's a winger or a fullback (I still think he's a centre but that's just me). Anyway, what I'm wondering is - are we a bit all over the shop at the moment coz we just can't get all players married up to their best positions. Or am I just clutching?

Your argument is quite valid SE8 but it doesnt alter the fact that some players are best suited to certain positions and really its up to good coaches to fit them in as best he or she can. Sometimes you've got to do the best you can. But if you have someone with exceptional talents best suited to a certain position, is it logical not to put him in that position if you can? Much depends on the stable of players you have of course. Obviously you place your best players in the positions best suited to them and then the lesser talented players in positions that are maybe second options, but still effective. But some players like your Turbos, DCE Jake etc should be in the position that best suits them, otherwise its a waste of talent. I think this has happened to Schuster. Think of Chess and the value you place on the pieces. You dont treat a rook like a pawn, or a knight like a Queen. You protect your best pieces so they have cause the greatest havoc.

 

[Seagles68]

Your argument is quite valid SE8 but it doesnt alter the fact that some players are best suited to certain positions and really its up to good coaches to fit them in as best he or she can. Sometimes you've got to do the best you can. But if you have someone with exceptional talents best suited to a certain position, is it logical not to put him in that position if you can? Much depends on the stable of players you have of course. Obviously you place your best players in the positions best suited to them and then the lesser talented players in positions that are maybe second options, but still effective. But some players like your Turbos, DCE Jake etc should be in the position that best suits them, otherwise its a waste of talent. I think this has happened to Schuster. Think of Chess and the value you place on the pieces. You dont treat a rook like a pawn, or a knight like a Queen. You protect your best pieces so they have cause the greatest havoc.

Yeah, I'm with you. Just wondering how we fix that. Is it Dessie is doing the best with an unbalanced squad or is it Dessie?

 

[Bearfax]

Yeah, I'm with you. Just wondering how we fix that. Is it Dessie is doing the best with an unbalanced squad or is it Dessie?

One of the important ingredients, I would think, is that you dont waste a talented ball players skill tackling. The Storm realised this with Smith who did little tackling. Check out Munster's tackling per match. He's kept out of the heavy stuff so he's got the energy to play the big attacking plays. Same with Turbo. DCE does a lot of tackling which I think stunts his performance at times. Schuster as a second rower was averaging 28 tackles a game last year. That amount of energy stunts a players attacking ability. You cant have it both ways. Bellamy keeps his main attackers out of the tackling firing line far better than Hasler, so they are energy laden. You want the best of Schuster. Reduce his tackling responsibilities so he has the energy to make the big attacking plays. Hasler obviously thinks he can do both. Not wise in my opinion. You save your attacking players from heavy tackling so they have the energy and drive in attack.

 

[Technical Coach]

Ask this question though. How would Foran perform as a second rower? How would he have performed as a second rower ten years ago? Sure Schuster is a bigger unit, but he was brought through the juniors in the last years as a 5/8. Suddenly he's expected to be a second rower because he played there early in his junior years. That's a big ask for a young player. I doubt Foran would have coped.

Foran could easily have played a roving mobile backrower lock role in his early years if it was required, from the outset Foran played with intensity and had all round involvement from kick chasers to leadership style tackles, taking the line on with strong runs and ball playing.

Now his body holding up is a different story, what we do know is at Manly under Des injuries have been well managed and under control.

I've actually been surprised of the commitment levels Foran has displayed on his return to Manly, i was expecting a more choose his moments and protect himself level of involvement style and not taking the line on as much, Foran has been very impressive in a squad lacking many leaders.

I would say Foran has played like a man wanting to pay his respects to the club that gave him his start and had the confidence to resign him again when everyone else thought he was finished physically.

2022 would of been a boring ass year without Foran showing his playing class.

 

[Technical Coach]

One of the important ingredients, I would think, is that you dont waste a talented ball players skill tackling. The Storm realised this with Smith who did little tackling. Check out Munster's tackling per match. He's kept out of the heavy stuff so he's got the energy to play the big attacking plays. Same with Turbo. DCE does a lot of tackling which I think stunts his performance at times. Schuster as a second rower was averaging 28 tackles a game last year. That amount of energy stunts a players attacking ability. You cant have it both ways. Bellamy keeps his main attackers out of the tackling firing line far better than Hasler, so they are energy laden. You want the best of Schuster. Reduce his tackling responsibilities so he has the energy to make the big attacking plays. Hasler obviously thinks he can do both. Not wise in my opinion. You save your attacking players from heavy tackling so they have the energy and drive in attack.

Improve the go forward and overall sharpness in our sets and it takes the load off defensively plus wins field position.

What Schuster showed in attack last year as a back rower was fine for a first year player, no-one here is really on his back about the flaws in his game he showed last year, it's about whether he will ever be sharp enough in an all round sense to be a good 5/8 attacking wise and defensively in the form of kick chasers etc.

Planting yourself on the left working off shape and showing the odd bit of ball playing class is not going to be enough moving forward in a squad lacking ball playing options all over the park.

Foran was able to plant himself on the left having J.Lyon and G.Stewart on the right Schuster doesn't have this same luxury so needs to rove a little more which requires fitness and sharpness.

 

[Seagles68]

Improve the go forward and overall sharpness in our sets and it takes the load off defensively plus wins field position.

What Schuster showed in attack last year as a back rower was fine for a first year player, no-one here is really on his back about the flaws in his game he showed last year, it's about whether he will ever be sharp enough in an all round sense to be a good 5/8 attacking wise and defensively in the form of kick chasers etc.

Planting yourself on the left working off shape and showing the odd bit of ball playing class is not going to be enough moving forward in a squad lacking ball playing options all over the park.

Foran was able to plant himself on the left having J.Lyon and G.Stewart on the right Schuster doesn't have this same luxury so needs to rove a little more which requires fitness and sharpness.

Yep, without that go forward from our big boys, it won't matter how good the halves are. And I'm a bit dull in my posts about Schu but I really want this kid to succeed at 5/8. My biggest concern for next year is that he will try too hard due to the pressure of expectation and overplay the flashy stuff. That's up to Dessie to manage. I hope he can. But anyway ....

 

[alafua siaosi]

More than happy for him to get every opportunity at 6 ... but my criticism and opinion of him to date after watching over 30 1st grade appearances has nothing to to with what position he has played ..

Effort, workrate, defense, 1%er's, kick chase, option taking, fitness, football smarts have nothing to do with his position and are all parts of attitude ...

As I said, I wish him well ... but his success will start inside his own head .. not with coaches or what position he plays ...

You watch geriatric Foran .. 9/10 times he is first man up to make the tackle, or funnel the returner from a kick chase .. until the Shu gets that level of commitment I will continue to have my concerns.

Agreed with all you have mentioned but at the end of the day Manly needs to be in the finals next year as this year is done .I cannot blame what happened this year on Schuster as he hardly played , and is the reason I would like to see him at 6 in 2023 .Just want to find out what he can do with ball in hand inside the opposition's 20 meter zone as we need points when we are in there .Bring on 2023 and let's go Manly .

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

Conjecture Woodsie. Dont misunderstand me. I have high regard for your comments as being easily among the most astute on this site and I dont say that to patronize. However I dont believe Foran would have survived in that position. He almost burn't himself out playing the way he did for Manly back in 2011 as 5/8 and many of us remarked about his kamikaze style that even then many thought would burn him out. In the second row he would most likely to have disappeared. Certain players have a style specifically suited to certain positions. Take them out of those positions and they suddenly lose their potency . I believe this has happened to Schuster and it also I believe would have happened to Foran in a different position. I remember it with Cliff Lyons playing for Norths. Looked talented at centre but I remember just how clever he was yet not noticed, except by a clever Manly recruiter. Change of position and suddenly he was a champion. We're like components in a machine. Put us in the wrong spot and we may function, but not to our optimum. Its a clever coach he recognises where those components fit. Maybe in the end Schuster doesnt fit as we hope. But its senseless to fit a square peg in a round hole

Let's all be real here.... he wasn't playing like an old fashioned second row in 2021... he wasn't being asked to play in the middle, trying to get always be around the play the ball on every defensive set and constantly shuffling in and having a huge defensive workload or slamming the ball into the middle of the ruck in attack. These days they play on an edge and they stay there... so essentially Schu was playing the link role at times but more outside the half/5/8 in attack and therefore really playing almost like a second pivot. Schuster was playing a wider version of Gifty. So to me the difference ion playing 5/8 to second row really was pretty minimal. He played really well out there but he is lazy... he is living on ego and past deeds. I certainly have no faith in him turning it around. He will need a massive attitude change over the off season. He has all the skills - amazing skills but his effort, desire and commitment this year have been zero out of 10. He is a huge huge question mark.

 

[BOZO]

.Bring on 2023 and let's go Manly .

Happy New 2023 feathered friend !

 

[Bearfax]

Foran could easily have played a roving mobile backrower lock role in his early years if it was required, from the outset Foran played with intensity and had all round involvement from kick chasers to leadership style tackles, taking the line on with strong runs and ball playing.

Now his body holding up is a different story, what we do know is at Manly under Des injuries have been well managed and under control.

I've actually been surprised of the commitment levels Foran has displayed on his return to Manly, i was expecting a more choose his moments and protect himself level of involvement style and not taking the line on as much, Foran has been very impressive in a squad lacking many leaders.

I would say Foran has played like a man wanting to pay his respects to the club that gave him his start and had the confidence to resign him again when everyone else thought he was finished physically.

2022 would of been a boring ass year without Foran showing his playing class.

I'm far from convinced about that claim TC. I remember Foran at 5/8 in 2010-11 and he was often exhausted by games end because of the energy he was putting into his game and I suspect it contributed to his injury problems over the following 6-7 years. And that's playing in a position that didnt require the grunt work of a forward. Personally with that extra energy of the grunt work, his effectiveness i my opinion would have been severely stunted. Lewis and Lyons managed it for periods of time but they were never as effective as when playing 5/8. They arent robots and they dont have unlimited energy. Certainly last year Schuster played well in both attack and defense, but even back then supporters here were questioning his fitness and fatness.

 

[Bearfax]

Let's all be real here.... he wasn't playing like an old fashioned second row in 2021... he wasn't being asked to play in the middle, trying to get always be around the play the ball on every defensive set and constantly shuffling in and having a huge defensive workload or slamming the ball into the middle of the ruck in attack. These days they play on an edge and they stay there... so essentially Schu was playing the link role at times but more outside the half/5/8 in attack and therefore really playing almost like a second pivot. Schuster was playing a wider version of Gifty. So to me the difference ion playing 5/8 to second row really was pretty minimal. He played really well out there but he is lazy... he is living on ego and past deeds. I certainly have no faith in him turning it around. He will need a massive attitude change over the off season. He has all the skills - amazing skills but his effort, desire and commitment this year have been zero out of 10. He is a huge huge question mark.

Check the figures TC. He average 27-28 tackles a match which was only exceeded by Jake and Croker, though Taupau was about equal. He was also only one of three forwards on the field for the full 80 minutes each game, the others being Jake and Croker. And then he was expected to be involved in most of the attacking raids. The other forwards I would say had it easy in comparison (except Jake and Croker that is)

 

[Woodsie]

Conjecture Woodsie. Dont misunderstand me. I have high regard for your comments as being easily among the most astute on this site and I dont say that to patronize. However I dont believe Foran would have survived in that position. He almost burn't himself out playing the way he did for Manly back in 2011 as 5/8 and many of us remarked about his kamikaze style that even then many thought would burn him out. In the second row he would most likely to have disappeared. Certain players have a style specifically suited to certain positions. Take them out of those positions and they suddenly lose their potency . I believe this has happened to Schuster and it also I believe would have happened to Foran in a different position. I remember it with Cliff Lyons playing for Norths. Looked talented at centre but I remember just how clever he was yet not noticed, except by a clever Manly recruiter. Change of position and suddenly he was a champion. We're like components in a machine. Put us in the wrong spot and we may function, but not to our optimum. Its a clever coach he recognises where those components fit. Maybe in the end Schuster doesnt fit as we hope. But its senseless to fit a square peg in a round hole

I agree with a lot of what you say ... however, the personal traits I have my doubts about ... are generally evident regardless of postion played, or even performance ... even if Foran was running the bucket and sponge, you would immediately see that he wanted to be the best sponge and bucket runner ever .. people would marvel at the speed in which he got to an injured player, the competency in which he wiped the wet sponge across their face, applaud him when he yells "get up! it's only a broken leg"

cheers mate ...

 

[Woodsie]

Interested in your view Bearfax on your point about players having a specific style to certain positions and if that's part of our problem at the moment. I know it's a little of your post but I'm thinking about players like Schu (that I think is still potentially a very good 5/8 for us) but other players as well. Think Jake - he doesn;t quite fit a lock role and he's not quite a front rower type, Croker - not quite a 9 but not going to be in the halves, Parks - love his courage with his straight lines but not quite the centre game breaker we could use. And then the young blokes like Koula - playing him in the centres until Garrick's injury but now a question over whether he's a winger or a fullback (I still think he's a centre but that's just me). Anyway, what I'm wondering is - are we a bit all over the shop at the moment coz we just can't get all players married up to their best positions. Or am I just clutching?

Add to that the fact that Tommy Turbo will be the best 2nd rower in history if we ever play him there ...