The Kieran Forum

[SeaEagleRock8]

 

[47MVEagle]

That's the one!

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Every time something happens it reminds me of that old TV commercial from the 80s "OH MY GOODNESS THE CHIPS!!!"

Do I detect the birth of a new Silvertails meme?

 

[Snake]

I don't get the point you guys are trying to make? You've listed rosters much more talented than ours (and balanced), that can probably afford to weaken one position to strengthen another?

We don't have that luxury. I'm hard on Des, but one of his endearing qualities as a coach, is getting those lower to middle tier quality players to play above expectations (guys like Rose, Bryant, Hall spring to mind - hoping he can do that with Harper, Saab, Bullemor, Keppie etc). For that reason, it's hard to eek out more quality again given we are already over stretched with so MANY players playing out of their preferred positions.

And I'm still to be convinced, even after the evidence you both have given me, that we can beat a top 4 team (footnote: meaning where they end up at seasons end, or project to be at seasons end).

But next year, assuming full (FULL) strength, how is this roster pushed against a cap?

01. Tom Trbojevic
02. Jason Saab
03. Tolu Koula
04. Christian Tuipulotu
05. Reuben Garrick
06. Josh Schuster
07. Daly Cherry-Evans
08. Josh Aloiai
09. Manase Fainu
10. Taniela Paseka
11. Haumole Olakau'atu
12. Kelma Tuilagi
13. Jake Trbojevic

14. Karl Lawton
15. Sean Keppie
16. Ethan Bullemor
17. Ben Trbojevic

Assume: Marty Taupau, Dylan Walker, Jorge Taufua, Morgan Boyle, Andrew Davey (possibly), Kieran Foran are gone. The cap goes up. Who are these other rookies we've given huge upgrades too?

Saab, Garrick, Schuster, Paseka, Olakau’atu and Keppie are all on more money than they were originally signed for - they had their deals upgraded after the seasons they had last year.

Throw in the massive coin DCE is on for next year, the Tom/Jake deals and you can see why we are full. With this, the upgrades, the signing of Bullemor for this year and Tualagi for next (although they aren’t on huge coin, they’re still on reasonable deals), you can see why it’s gotten hairy.

 

[Ryan]

Well for starters you've named 17 players when we have to name 30 within the cap so add another 13 names & you'll see why the ~$10m is stretched.

Secondly, Turbo, Garrick, Schuster, DCE, Aloiai, Olakau'atu & Jake are/would all be on good wedges.

But I get it, you're not happy with our squad & don't think it can compete with a top 4 team.

As they say, a week is a long time in rugby league & all it takes is for one player to come (or go) & the dynamic of the squad can change drastically for the better (or the worse).

Who's to say Fainu doesn't get cleared & comes storming back, immediately solving our hooker issue?

All of a sudden everything else falls into place OR Fainu doesn't get cleared or has been out of the game for too long so we let him go & groom GCKT or buy a hooker, also solving our hooker issue.

Either way, there's light at the end of the tunnel so I don't see the point in continually doom-mongering & deathriding our squad, coach, club, there's just no point in it IMO.

Nor does continuously looking at the inadequacies, and pretending they aren't there in the view of short-sighted positivity?

Once AGAIN, wanting the team to be better, wanting the team to compete with the top 4 teams in the league isn't doom-mongering & deathriding. Honestly trying to explain this to some of you is like herding cats. Either you don't want to hear it, or your too ignorant to listen? If I was an athlete (and this is just my opinion), I'd much rather the type of fan that would say mate, that was a poor performance for someone of your quality, than the fan that watches me have a blunderbus of a performance, and stands there jumping up and down and cheering.

Think about Nathan Brown doing that after The Sharks. His positivity was so ridiculous given the circumstances, it brought into question among many groups his coaching ability. Yet you want to do that as a fan. Then rip the people who demand something better ? hahaha.

But that's just me, I like to win, and I expect performance / improvement. There are MANY like me on this site (whom you / others also niggle constantly for their views) who get completely frustrated, annoyed, angry with the performances / efforts / systems / coaching / teams etc. And they vocalize that. And why not? It's only healthy ! To suggest that's negative is plain moronic in my opinion. What outcome do they WANT? Let me spell it for you 47 (W-I-N-S). You get it? That's NOT doom-mongering & deathriding our squad, coach, club as you put it.

So before you bleat that crap again to me or anyone else, we all "WANT THE SAME THING". I'm at a point of thinking that possibly there ARE some fans that "want" us to struggle, so they can come here just to rip people who complaint about it, because that's what brings them contentment, rather than amazing performances & wins.

 

[47MVEagle]

Nor does continuously looking at the inadequacies, and pretending they aren't there in the view of short-sighted positivity?

Once AGAIN, wanting the team to be better, wanting the team to compete with the top 4 teams in the league isn't doom-mongering & deathriding. Honestly trying to explain this to some of you is like herding cats. Either you don't want to hear it, or your too ignorant to listen? If I was an athlete (and this is just my opinion), I'd much rather the type of fan that would say mate, that was a poor performance for someone of your quality, than the fan that watches me have a blunderbus of a performance, and stands there jumping up and down and cheering.

Think about Nathan Brown doing that after The Sharks. His positivity was so ridiculous given the circumstances, it brought into question among many groups his coaching ability. Yet you want to do that as a fan. Then rip the people who demand something better ? hahaha.

But that's just me, I like to win, and I expect performance / improvement. There are MANY like me on this site (whom you / others also niggle constantly for their views) who get completely frustrated, annoyed, angry with the performances / efforts / systems / coaching / teams etc. And they vocalize that. And why not? It's only healthy ! To suggest that's negative is plain moronic in my opinion. What outcome do they WANT? Let me spell it for you 47 (W-I-N-S). You get it? That's NOT doom-mongering & deathriding our squad, coach, club as you put it.

So before you bleat that crap again to me or anyone else, we all "WANT THE SAME THING". I'm at a point of thinking that possibly there ARE some fans that "want" us to struggle, so they can come here just to rip people who complaint about it, because that's what brings them contentment, rather than amazing performances & wins.

If anyone's ripping anyone here, it's you ripping me with this post.

You're complaining that I'm ripping you & saying you're negative but you're ripping me for being positive.

Ironic really, it's almost like you want me to either completely disengage from conversing with you or only engage if I'm in full agreement with you.

 

[Ryan]

If anyone's ripping anyone here, it's you ripping me with this post.

You're complaining that I'm ripping you & saying you're negative but you're ripping me for being positive.

Ironic really, it's almost like you want me to either completely disengage from conversing with you or only engage if I'm in full agreement with you.

It's because the positive / negative debate has been hashed, rehashed, then rehashed again. It's old news. Every person here (apart from Parra trolls like The Chief for example) want us to win games (and a premiership), and for our players to excel at all levels. For that reason, I don't think ONE forum poster is negative. Not one.

The people / fans we need to worry about, are the one's not ironed on like all of us, who get sick of crap performances and lose interest.

You DO get that every person that posts here, wants us to win, right? Every single person. They want us to excel. And you're calling them "doom-mongering & deathriding our squad, coach, club".

Is that really what they are doing? like REALLY?

 

[Rocky]

Nor does continuously looking at the inadequacies, and pretending they aren't there in the view of short-sighted positivity?

Once AGAIN, wanting the team to be better, wanting the team to compete with the top 4 teams in the league isn't doom-mongering & deathriding. Honestly trying to explain this to some of you is like herding cats. Either you don't want to hear it, or your too ignorant to listen? If I was an athlete (and this is just my opinion), I'd much rather the type of fan that would say mate, that was a poor performance for someone of your quality, than the fan that watches me have a blunderbus of a performance, and stands there jumping up and down and cheering.

Think about Nathan Brown doing that after The Sharks. His positivity was so ridiculous given the circumstances, it brought into question among many groups his coaching ability. Yet you want to do that as a fan. Then rip the people who demand something better ? hahaha.

But that's just me, I like to win, and I expect performance / improvement. There are MANY like me on this site (whom you / others also niggle constantly for their views) who get completely frustrated, annoyed, angry with the performances / efforts / systems / coaching / teams etc. And they vocalize that. And why not? It's only healthy ! To suggest that's negative is plain moronic in my opinion. What outcome do they WANT? Let me spell it for you 47 (W-I-N-S). You get it? That's NOT doom-mongering & deathriding our squad, coach, club as you put it.

So before you bleat that crap again to me or anyone else, we all "WANT THE SAME THING". I'm at a point of thinking that possibly there ARE some fans that "want" us to struggle, so they can come here just to rip people who complaint about it, because that's what brings them contentment, rather than amazing performances & wins.

Manly have an above average squad in the NRL. Yes we all agree a little unbalanced in places. But Manly is somewhere between the 3rd best and 7th best team this year, just like they were last year. If you don't believe me take a look at the the betting odds to win the premiership. It's really crazy that you think we are 14th or whatever it is.

Spoiler alert -it's really hard to win the premiership. The best teams manage their cap the best. Hard to believe really isn't it? Penrith have developed their youngsters on cheaper deals and have astutely let go players that they can replace with much cheaper options. Melbourne are Melbourne. Bellamy is the best and players will take below market to play there. Their retention and recruitment has been a masterclass over the last 15 or so years.

Manly haven't done as good a job as those two teams obviously. But not everyone can be the best. I don't see that acknowledging that fact is accepting mediocrity. Its just the reality of the situation.

 

[47MVEagle]

It's because the positive / negative debate has been hashed, rehashed, then rehashed again. It's old news. Every person here (apart from Parra trolls like The Chief for example) want us to win games (and a premiership), and for our players to excel at all levels. For that reason, I don't think ONE forum poster is negative. Not one.

The people / fans we need to worry about, are the one's not ironed on like all of us, who get sick of crap performances and lose interest.

You DO get that every person that posts here, wants us to win, right? Every single person. They want us to excel. And you're calling them "doom-mongering & deathriding our squad, coach, club".

Is that really what they are doing? like REALLY?

So if I dont agree with your posts, don't comment on them because in your opinion the positive/negative debate has been done to death?

Cool mate, you only want people who agree with you to reply to you, otherwise you want to spew your bile unchecked, gotcha.

 

[manly al]

Manly have an above average squad in the NRL. Yes we all agree a little unbalanced in places. But Manly is somewhere between the 3rd best and 7th best team this year, just like they were last year. If you don't believe me take a look at the the betting odds to win the premiership. It's really crazy that you think we are 14th or whatever it is.

Spoiler alert -it's really hard to win the premiership. The best teams manage their cap the best. Hard to believe really isn't it? Penrith have developed their youngsters on cheaper deals and have astutely let go players that they can replace with much cheaper options. Melbourne are Melbourne. Bellamy is the best and players will take below market to play there. Their retention and recruitment has been a masterclass over the last 15 or so years.

Manly haven't done as good a job as those two teams obviously. But not everyone can be the best. I don't see that acknowledging that fact is accepting mediocrity. Its just the reality of the situation.

Sides like the Panthers and Storm and a couple of others in recent times have that high level of intensity and sense of urgency as well . Something that Manly can show or are capable of showing with the best team available but not as consistent as the current top tier sides . Ideally if the likes of Alioia , Haumole , Jake , Paseka Walker , even Croker can all be available on a regular basis and Foz driving the backs , could be an entirely different proposition .

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

It amazes me how quickly narratives develop here.

I'm sure only a week or 2 ago everyone was looking forward to Schuster coming back from injury as he is our future at 5/8th.

Then the story about his manager agitating for him to get the #6 jersey appears, then news that Foran has taken up a 2 year deal at the Titans & suddenly Schuster is "always out injured" & "should shut up & just play football" & is public enemy number 1 & being blamed for Foz not being re-signed & the club being criticised for not managing the cap because a gutter journo claimed so.

I get that people are passionate & have their favourite players but does that mean you can deathride our club every time that player doesn't get re-signed or played in their supposed favourite/best position?

It’s Silvertails , so the answer to that is YES.

 

[Ryan]

So if I dont agree with your posts, don't comment on them because in your opinion the positive/negative debate has been done to death?

Cool mate, you only want people who agree with you to reply to you, otherwise you want to spew your bile unchecked, gotcha.

Disagree , sure. But I've been talking about playing players in their specialist positions. I'm talking about having a balanced roster. You somehow made that about me being doom-and-gloom, or me deathriding something. What does that have to do with team balance , salary cap or positional play ? How is wanting these aspects improved negative ? Hahaha.

But you can't seem to comprehend the difference between the topic and the poster (hence the herding cats comment).

I've seen Mick make na comment about Des, and your response was a direct comment about him..

On a footy forum, I thought your focus would be on footy. You (and others) are obsessed with telling people what types of.people they are ?? We all get it, you think people are pessemistic and negative (I don't). But we've heard it, we've taken it in board. You've been heard.

Do you have to repeat it after every post, now ?

 

[47MVEagle]

Disagree , sure. But I've been talking about playing players in their specialist positions. I'm talking about having a balanced roster. You somehow made that about me being doom-and-gloom, or me deathriding something. What does that have to do with team balance , salary cap or positional play ? How is wanting these aspects improved negative ? Hahaha.

But you can't seem to comprehend the difference between the topic and the poster (hence the herding cats comment).

I've seen Mick make na comment about Des, and your response was a direct comment about him..

On a footy forum, I thought your focus would be on footy. You (and others) are obsessed with telling people what types of.people they are ?? We all get it, you think people are pessemistic and negative (I don't). But we've heard it, we've taken it in board. You've been heard.

Do you have to repeat it after every post, now ?

You're intent on trying to make more out of this than is necessary.

I'll leave you with it, seems you want to be able to say your piece without anyone disagreeing with you constructively then try to spark an argument while hiding behind the personal insults excuse.

Too much hard work, all the best to you.

 

[Red Baron]

I honestly can’t believe this is the most popular thread in the history of Silvertails. What is it about Foz that makes him stand out of the crowd amongst hundreds of players that have come and gone?

 

[XV-1]

I honestly can’t believe this is the most popular thread in the history of Silvertails. What is it about Foz that makes him stand out of the crowd amongst hundreds of players that have come and gone?

There have been many related threads added to this by the mods.

500 odd pages are probably related how he screwed Manly when going to Parra.

 

[lsz]

It is well worth a read (well some of it!)

 

[Snake]

I honestly can’t believe this is the most popular thread in the history of Silvertails. What is it about Foz that makes him stand out of the crowd amongst hundreds of players that have come and gone?

Most of it is from before left. He was basically God from 2009-2014

 

[Disco]

Nor does continuously looking at the inadequacies, and pretending they aren't there in the view of short-sighted positivity?

Once AGAIN, wanting the team to be better, wanting the team to compete with the top 4 teams in the league isn't doom-mongering & deathriding. Honestly trying to explain this to some of you is like herding cats. Either you don't want to hear it, or your too ignorant to listen? If I was an athlete (and this is just my opinion), I'd much rather the type of fan that would say mate, that was a poor performance for someone of your quality, than the fan that watches me have a blunderbus of a performance, and stands there jumping up and down and cheering.

Think about Nathan Brown doing that after The Sharks. His positivity was so ridiculous given the circumstances, it brought into question among many groups his coaching ability. Yet you want to do that as a fan. Then rip the people who demand something better ? hahaha.

But that's just me, I like to win, and I expect performance / improvement. There are MANY like me on this site (whom you / others also niggle constantly for their views) who get completely frustrated, annoyed, angry with the performances / efforts / systems / coaching / teams etc. And they vocalize that. And why not? It's only healthy ! To suggest that's negative is plain moronic in my opinion. What outcome do they WANT? Let me spell it for you 47 (W-I-N-S). You get it? That's NOT doom-mongering & deathriding our squad, coach, club as you put it.

So before you bleat that crap again to me or anyone else, we all "WANT THE SAME THING". I'm at a point of thinking that possibly there ARE some fans that "want" us to struggle, so they can come here just to rip people who complaint about it, because that's what brings them contentment, rather than amazing performances & wins.

Ooooft, thats a good crack

Just differences of opnion, some obviously disagree with your views on the strength of our roster or the extent of inadequacies etc.

And thats what we are here for, to debate and discuss.

Its not about positivity for positivities sake or 'pretending' its about how you view the team.

You view the roster as 9th to 14th in the league. I personally see it as 3rd to 6th.

Simply differences in opinion

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Most of it is from before left. He was basically God from 2009-2014

Hmm, not exactly ...

This comment from Larry is post #2292, on 16 March 2015 - the day Foran announced he had signed with the Eels.

This thread should be retired, not allowed to grow any larger.

The guy is yesterday's news...

If only we'd listened to Larry! Since then there has been a further 9,500 posts (475 pages) and no, I can't account for it either!

(Hope Larry is going ok)

 

[AlxFromNthNarra]

Bummed to hear Foz is heading off, but all the best to him.

Kinda completes his redemption arc imo - he scuttled back home a couple of years back on the verge of being unemployable, and now he has thrived and is ready to once again leave the nest and hopefully get a couple more seasons at least.

Be great to have him back in a club-affiliated position after retirement.

Hope he brings the Titans a little bit of what they have been missing - and what they have been unable to simply pay for with audacious signings (like Fifita/Taylor). Good price for a great player.

So what happens now?

Obv Schuster to 5/8, contracted to end of '24.

Makes our cap a little bit interesting next year with the 3 big expected movers (Marty/Foz/Dylan) likely freeing up 1.5mil (800/300/400ish)

Add to that we may move Boyle on, and Sione is gone already. So arguably somewhere in the realms of 1.7-2mil. Jorge to retirement too I imagine?

We need to upgrade a few youngsters I imagine - those finishing up at the end of '23 mainly, to stop the Nov deadline scalpers. And work out what to do with Davey (i'd def give him another contract personally)

How much does that leave us to spend on the open market and what do we target (Realistically and given whats available that is)?