Suli being circled?
- Thread starter The better Robbo
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40 nil
It's only a game ...
If we have cap space from letting players go, our major need is a competent fullback replacement. This is the real weakness in our roster. Due to insufficient second tier games, Weekes & Koula haven't had a chance to develop this year. Thus, chasing a centre-fullback would be ideal, e.g. Nui, Lomax or even Will Hopoate (2 years only - won't happen as he'd demand too much money).
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manlyfan76
There is no A.I. Just better computers
Walker in 2021:
12 games
6 starts
689 mins Avg 57
3 try
2 try assist
8 try caused (against)
3 line break
6 line break caused (against)
124 tackles
23 missed
9 errors
2 kick errors
Not sure what people see in walks in 2021
Lets give him a few full games under his belt at centre so we can see .
Snake
Snake's Alive!
When we play St George and run multiple tries down his edge, you'll change your tune!
Ryan
Journey Man
A premiership player
An Australian player
A NSW Origin player
A City Origin player
An All Star (All and Other)
26 years old (playing out of position) - hard to use those numbers for that reason
His attacking game is second to none
Let him build defensive chemistry with Garrick, Foz and Schuster, then see
I think the reason a lot are harder on him is the behavioral stuff (just opinion).
40 years an eagle
Bencher
I'd rather we win games.
manlyfan76
There is no A.I. Just better computers
Ryan you are a stats guy (normally) so I thought you of all people would appreciate the data.
He has let in 8 trys and scored/ assisted in 5. That's one scored on him every 86 minsbut only scores one every 200 mins +
For every line break he allows two!
He said himself he was a 5/8 until souffs put him on at centre.
Yes add his off field to his poor stats. It's the whole picture.
Last four years how many rep games?
This year's all stars he has horrid at centre.
manlyfan76
There is no A.I. Just better computers
He would have to come so,so cheap.
40 years an eagle
Bencher
These are all facts (albeit mostly 5 years ago) except the last one, which is opinion.
Then why doesn't anyone else want him? Even Suli, who is horrible, reportedly has interest from other clubs.
If nobody wants a player it means they are not worth signing.
Why would we want to buy or keep a player that nobody else wants?
The Who
Journey Man
Ryan, you are living in the past. He has never lived up to his reputation since he came to Manly. I wish he had. I wish he'd prove me and many other Silvertails wrong. I've given him the benefit of the doubt for the past four seasons. He is not worthy of being in our top 17.
Ryan
Journey Man
Fair enough. I know I stick up for him a lot. Guess we'll have to respectfully disagree. I take yours (and others @The Who ) point(s) by the way. I just think, give him some "conSISTENT time" at centre to build chemistry both in attack and more so like you say "defense", I really think he'd shock people.
His form literally dropped when he started getting shifted around from position to position. Yes, he's very occasionally thrown back in at centre for a few games, but again, he needs time to build back into the position, before he's moved again.
Look at Croker. Everyone literally wanted him out at one point, blaming all the losses on him. We all glad we stuck with him there? Consistency, chemistry, combination...that's the key imo for the stats to turn around.
Feels like I'm alone in that way of thinking though haha. Same as I was with Froggy.
manlyfan76
There is no A.I. Just better computers
I wish he was better, I would of thought his defence would improve as he matured, but players like Lawton have set the benchmark re playing out of position. I think Walker would be best suited to be playing 5/8 but with Foz, shoe ahead of him he won't at Manly
I wouldn't be signing Walker next year. We looked after him and really haven't received bang for our buck over a long period of time. Time for some new blood.
Ryan
Journey Man
Yup, and despite my opinion, Des appears to prefer Parker / Harper, so how I feel is a moot point. The reason I say that, is at full strength, Des will want Fainu starting / Lawton as the utility (which also leaves out Froggy). There won't be a spot available for him, so I'm already amping up for the disappointment of him potentially signing elsewhere.
Our bench is so strong at:
14. Karl Lawton (ability to play halves, hooker and backrow now)
15. Josh Aloiai (has to be there)
16. Toafofoa Sipley (you couldn't drop this guy - he's a 100 miles an hour)
17. Andrew Davey OR Sean Keppie (Keppie could play middle too)
To me, that's the best bench in the league. On top of the best backrow (Olakau'atu, Schuster, Jake). Just beastly.
I'm just saying unfortunately my boy may be the odd one out
The better Robbo
Bencher
And that's coming off the bench. Imagaine he was out there for the full 80 minutes. Those stats read really bad!
manly al
First Grader
We are all entitled to our assumptions , the Manly edges improved significantly once Schuster and Olokau - atu have had main responsibility there apart from some general team improvement and Tom no doubt offering some more helpful direction from the back . Suli has not had the benefit of playing much with these improved defensive arrangements , Don 't think that he is nearly as bad as some make out in defence or has had the benefit of playing much footy with Tom at one to to assist his attack either . Maybe the club is prepared to let him go on full freight for another club to outlay but hasn "t seemed any indication of that yet . Do you know if Walker is likely to stay , again no confirmation there . Hope that Koula can be a long termer for Manly and excel as an outside back - one but that could be a bit into the future also . Just saying letting him go in the present circumstances may be not the smartest move ., and he is still 18 th man so presumably , next in line for a direct promotion into the game day squad
AlxFromNthNarra
Rarely does big posts worth reading....maybe
I feel that when we re-signed Suli, it made sense at the time. He had certainly showed glimpses of potential, and Des is normally a master of releasing a player's potential. He was looking like a world-beater against Souths in 2019, and sadly that was a pinnacle he has been unable to re-scale. His place has technically been taken in the starting lineup by Harper, so I feel that is the comparison that matters.
When Harper got his chance he really took it - but Harper is a crafty player with good footy instincts and a better footy brain than Moses. He has made it impossible to justify dropping him. His Def has been stellar, but his ability to setup Saab in Attk is also huge - he has a bit of Jamie Lyon about him in the ability to draw 2 players and flick the cheeky pass out the back to Saab, who is generally well positioned for the take - great synergy between those 2. He also runs great lines and is always sniffing around doing support play, and he's a bit mouthy too which doesn't hurt if you can back it up (which he has shown he can)
Suli's glaring weakness compared to Harper is his inability to read defence - he tackles well with, surprisingly (for me anyway), a fairly high efficiency. But its those plays where the opposition backline executes their shifts, and he is caught out of position. It doesn't count as a missed tackle, it's almost like an invisible stat. He also doesn't see the next play coming or sense the ball movement like Harper does. Also on attack, he can bludgeon the line better than most and win a line-break or setup an offload, but he doesn't expose an overlap otherwise, or link up as well with his support players.
Suli is - at this stage - a fairly 1-dimensional player with huge upside when at his best, but with other detrimental qualities that don't show up on the stats sheet as glaringly - bad reads, positional play, less effective support, poor synergy with players around him. I'd almost put a lot of it down to a lack of confidence - which might be a part of it. He's only 23 and has had a couple of pretty serious injuries in the last couple of years, maybe its taking its toll more than people credit? Regardless, his rare showings of potential are exciting, but the modern game demands disciplined, defensive consistency.
Conclusion: Currently earning the coin his potential promises, but not reaching it makes it an over-investment. If he is going to succeed anywhere it is going to be at Manly though, so I hope Des has a plan for him, else regrettably he should be moved on.
When Harper got his chance he really took it - but Harper is a crafty player with good footy instincts and a better footy brain than Moses. He has made it impossible to justify dropping him. His Def has been stellar, but his ability to setup Saab in Attk is also huge - he has a bit of Jamie Lyon about him in the ability to draw 2 players and flick the cheeky pass out the back to Saab, who is generally well positioned for the take - great synergy between those 2. He also runs great lines and is always sniffing around doing support play, and he's a bit mouthy too which doesn't hurt if you can back it up (which he has shown he can)
Suli's glaring weakness compared to Harper is his inability to read defence - he tackles well with, surprisingly (for me anyway), a fairly high efficiency. But its those plays where the opposition backline executes their shifts, and he is caught out of position. It doesn't count as a missed tackle, it's almost like an invisible stat. He also doesn't see the next play coming or sense the ball movement like Harper does. Also on attack, he can bludgeon the line better than most and win a line-break or setup an offload, but he doesn't expose an overlap otherwise, or link up as well with his support players.
Suli is - at this stage - a fairly 1-dimensional player with huge upside when at his best, but with other detrimental qualities that don't show up on the stats sheet as glaringly - bad reads, positional play, less effective support, poor synergy with players around him. I'd almost put a lot of it down to a lack of confidence - which might be a part of it. He's only 23 and has had a couple of pretty serious injuries in the last couple of years, maybe its taking its toll more than people credit? Regardless, his rare showings of potential are exciting, but the modern game demands disciplined, defensive consistency.
Conclusion: Currently earning the coin his potential promises, but not reaching it makes it an over-investment. If he is going to succeed anywhere it is going to be at Manly though, so I hope Des has a plan for him, else regrettably he should be moved on.
If Suli is on $550k ( well reported that this is the $$$), then I think we can do better utilising that money in other ways.
Walker is a bit “ Ho Hum” but to be fair he hasn’t played many games and has been selected at times out of position.
If he was say $350k then I’d keep him for his utility value and use the $$$ from Suli to upgrade Harper and bring on some youngsters.
Walker is a bit “ Ho Hum” but to be fair he hasn’t played many games and has been selected at times out of position.
If he was say $350k then I’d keep him for his utility value and use the $$$ from Suli to upgrade Harper and bring on some youngsters.
47MVEagle
Bencher
I kind of get the feeling Suli is still quite immature, like a big kid.
I don't know why, perhaps it's a combination of his babyish face combined with the issues he's had (sleeping in the car at training at the Bulldogs, forgetting his passport when Manly were flying to NZ a few seasons ago, his weight battle, etc) but I get the feeling he might be the favoured son in the family & is a bit soft because of it?
I could be completely wrong & have formed my opinion on incorrect data & assumptions, but he just doesn't seem to have any determination or hard edge about him...no mongrel.
Most people can find that edge within themselves if they're hungry/motivated enough, but it doesnt look like Suli has it in him?
It's a shame because I had great hopes for him when he first came to us - I remembered his debut at Wests Tigers & back then he looked, lean, mean & ruthless to me.
Maybe his father's death really knocked it out of him & he's never quite recovered?
I don't know why, perhaps it's a combination of his babyish face combined with the issues he's had (sleeping in the car at training at the Bulldogs, forgetting his passport when Manly were flying to NZ a few seasons ago, his weight battle, etc) but I get the feeling he might be the favoured son in the family & is a bit soft because of it?
I could be completely wrong & have formed my opinion on incorrect data & assumptions, but he just doesn't seem to have any determination or hard edge about him...no mongrel.
Most people can find that edge within themselves if they're hungry/motivated enough, but it doesnt look like Suli has it in him?
It's a shame because I had great hopes for him when he first came to us - I remembered his debut at Wests Tigers & back then he looked, lean, mean & ruthless to me.
Maybe his father's death really knocked it out of him & he's never quite recovered?
| Team | P | W | L | PD | Pts |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
5 | 4 | 1 | 23 | 10 |
|
5 | 4 | 1 | 14 | 10 |
|
6 | 4 | 2 | 48 | 8 |
|
6 | 4 | 2 | 28 | 8 |
|
5 | 3 | 2 | 25 | 8 |
|
5 | 3 | 2 | 14 | 8 |
|
6 | 3 | 2 | 38 | 7 |
|
6 | 3 | 2 | 21 | 7 |
|
6 | 3 | 3 | 37 | 6 |
|
6 | 3 | 3 | 16 | 6 |
|
6 | 3 | 3 | -13 | 6 |
|
5 | 2 | 3 | -15 | 6 |
|
6 | 3 | 3 | -36 | 6 |
|
6 | 2 | 4 | -5 | 4 |
|
6 | 2 | 4 | -7 | 4 |
|
5 | 0 | 5 | -86 | 2 |
|
6 | 1 | 5 | -102 | 2 |
