Yes and the Slave was for ever freed . His faith freed him
omnipotent beings discussion
- Thread starter mozgrame
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Kevinward777
First Grader
Oh well feathered friend . At least we can enjoy heaven on earth together as Sea eagle supportersCold comfort I'm afraid.
Oh well I'll leave you (along with all the Muslims, and all the rest) to enjoy your afterlife together.
Hope it's not too crowded up there.
By the way, have you thought about what you might do for eternity? Do they play footy up there? Probably won't have foxtel. I suppose you could have games of chess, or do crosswords or something.
Anyway enjoy, knock yourselves out!
mozgrame
Engorged member
Who likes maths...or gambling lol???
Here are some odds that point towards a creator (IMO). They began writing the old testament around the mid 14th century BC and continued through until the late 1st century AD. So....we have a book that has 40 different authors. 66 books as I said earlier (in another post)...39 in the OT and 27 in the NT. Now this is important...don't miss this....all scripture written by those men was ispired by God.
2 Timmothy 3:16 says...."all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is useful for teaching the truth, rebuking error,correcting faults and giving instruction for right living".". Now...if you look at the greek (you understand why i'm sure)..."given by inspiration" is one word. That word is theopneustos. Theo in greek is God. Pneustos means breathed. The root of breathe would be air. We still use "pneu" in english, like pneumatic tools....they run on air. Is that all clear? OK...let me press on....
So all scripture is God breathed.
2 Peter 1:20 says, "Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit". So God spoke and men wrote.
I bet some of you are thinking...."what a heap of crap this is". Well this is where it gets interesting and very hard to explain...unless you take into account that there just might be a God that is in control of everything....as the evidence points to.
In the OT, there are over 50 prophecies about things to come. Some say 54 some say 300. I've found 44 so far. You can do the same....it's not rocket science.
Isaiah wrote about 700 years before Jesus was born about the virgin birth. Micah named the city in which he'd be born 700 years before his birth. David wrote about crucifixion 1000 years before he was crucified....and that was 500 years before anyone had been crucified! (The first crucifxion historians know of was in 497BC) David describes it and Isaiah speaks of it as well.
Here's a ripper! Daniel writes 500 years BC about this great empire that dominates the world and then is suddenly cut off. It's then divided into 4 empires...then those 4 become 2 empires....then those 2 become 1. Sound familiar?? It should if you know your history lol.....
In 300BC, Alexander the Great ruled it all...then he was killed at the age of 32. (suddenly cut off!) His empire was divided amongst his 4 generals (4 empires). Those 4 empires became 2 empires....the Selucid and the Ptolemaic. Those 2 empires combined and formed the Roman Empire. Then Jesus arrived. Historians are baffled and amazed at the accuracy of Daniels prophecy....500 years before Jesus was born. (And the bible is full of these prophecies...please don't take my word for that....check it out yourselves! It's easy!)
So now...hopefully you've come from thinking, "What crap" and are at least thinking..."Big deal, coincidences happen all the time". Well...lets bring in some maths!!
Dr Peter Scoffard, emeritus professor of science at Edmonton University decided to do a study. The study involved 12 classes of students totalling 600 students and they wanted to find the mathematical odds of the messianic prophecies. They decided on one...that Jesus would be born in Bethlehem. So by taking the population of Bethlehem and the population of the world at that time, it came out that Jesus had a 1 in 300 000 chance of being born in Bethlehem. Not great odds. After they did that, they realised that they hadn't even figured that correctly, because they didn't factor in that Jesus's family didn't live in Bethlehem. So what would the odds be that a census would go out right at that time...and Mary would have to travel to Bethlehem, 9 months pregnant and give birth there....just as Micah said, 700 years earlier. The odds of that would have been terrible, surely.
They were so amazed at those results that they decided to take it a little further. They decided that 50 odd prophecies that came to pass was too big of an order...so they worked on just 8. Just 8 of the 50 odd that Jesus fulfilled. By the way.....the 8 prophecies they chose were ones that historical documents confirm...where he was born, how he died etc....then they submitted their findings to the American Scientific Affiliation. On the results, the ASA said..."These calculations are dependable and accurate in regards to science".
So what were the results???? Well......are you ready for this???/ The mathematical odds of Jesus fulfilling 8 (not 50 odd, even though he did.......just 8) were one in ten to the seventeenth power. How amazing is that? He had 1 chance in 1000 000 000 000 000 000. And that's just the figures for 8 fulfilled prophecies.
Now....I'd imagine the mathematical odds of 66 books written by 40 different authors over 1500 years being so consistent would be gargantuan. But they are congruent...
Do you seriously think that this came about by chance?
A massive thanks to Robert Morris for exposing me to these truths.
Next time...I'll prove to you that the NT is true, accurate and correct.
Here are some odds that point towards a creator (IMO). They began writing the old testament around the mid 14th century BC and continued through until the late 1st century AD. So....we have a book that has 40 different authors. 66 books as I said earlier (in another post)...39 in the OT and 27 in the NT. Now this is important...don't miss this....all scripture written by those men was ispired by God.
2 Timmothy 3:16 says...."all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is useful for teaching the truth, rebuking error,correcting faults and giving instruction for right living".". Now...if you look at the greek (you understand why i'm sure)..."given by inspiration" is one word. That word is theopneustos. Theo in greek is God. Pneustos means breathed. The root of breathe would be air. We still use "pneu" in english, like pneumatic tools....they run on air. Is that all clear? OK...let me press on....
So all scripture is God breathed.
2 Peter 1:20 says, "Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit". So God spoke and men wrote.
I bet some of you are thinking...."what a heap of crap this is". Well this is where it gets interesting and very hard to explain...unless you take into account that there just might be a God that is in control of everything....as the evidence points to.
In the OT, there are over 50 prophecies about things to come. Some say 54 some say 300. I've found 44 so far. You can do the same....it's not rocket science.
Isaiah wrote about 700 years before Jesus was born about the virgin birth. Micah named the city in which he'd be born 700 years before his birth. David wrote about crucifixion 1000 years before he was crucified....and that was 500 years before anyone had been crucified! (The first crucifxion historians know of was in 497BC) David describes it and Isaiah speaks of it as well.
Here's a ripper! Daniel writes 500 years BC about this great empire that dominates the world and then is suddenly cut off. It's then divided into 4 empires...then those 4 become 2 empires....then those 2 become 1. Sound familiar?? It should if you know your history lol.....
In 300BC, Alexander the Great ruled it all...then he was killed at the age of 32. (suddenly cut off!) His empire was divided amongst his 4 generals (4 empires). Those 4 empires became 2 empires....the Selucid and the Ptolemaic. Those 2 empires combined and formed the Roman Empire. Then Jesus arrived. Historians are baffled and amazed at the accuracy of Daniels prophecy....500 years before Jesus was born. (And the bible is full of these prophecies...please don't take my word for that....check it out yourselves! It's easy!)
So now...hopefully you've come from thinking, "What crap" and are at least thinking..."Big deal, coincidences happen all the time". Well...lets bring in some maths!!
Dr Peter Scoffard, emeritus professor of science at Edmonton University decided to do a study. The study involved 12 classes of students totalling 600 students and they wanted to find the mathematical odds of the messianic prophecies. They decided on one...that Jesus would be born in Bethlehem. So by taking the population of Bethlehem and the population of the world at that time, it came out that Jesus had a 1 in 300 000 chance of being born in Bethlehem. Not great odds. After they did that, they realised that they hadn't even figured that correctly, because they didn't factor in that Jesus's family didn't live in Bethlehem. So what would the odds be that a census would go out right at that time...and Mary would have to travel to Bethlehem, 9 months pregnant and give birth there....just as Micah said, 700 years earlier. The odds of that would have been terrible, surely.
They were so amazed at those results that they decided to take it a little further. They decided that 50 odd prophecies that came to pass was too big of an order...so they worked on just 8. Just 8 of the 50 odd that Jesus fulfilled. By the way.....the 8 prophecies they chose were ones that historical documents confirm...where he was born, how he died etc....then they submitted their findings to the American Scientific Affiliation. On the results, the ASA said..."These calculations are dependable and accurate in regards to science".
So what were the results???? Well......are you ready for this???/ The mathematical odds of Jesus fulfilling 8 (not 50 odd, even though he did.......just 8) were one in ten to the seventeenth power. How amazing is that? He had 1 chance in 1000 000 000 000 000 000. And that's just the figures for 8 fulfilled prophecies.
Now....I'd imagine the mathematical odds of 66 books written by 40 different authors over 1500 years being so consistent would be gargantuan. But they are congruent...
Do you seriously think that this came about by chance?
A massive thanks to Robert Morris for exposing me to these truths.
Next time...I'll prove to you that the NT is true, accurate and correct.
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Yes you got me there. I clearly don't deserve any answers from you. (Maybe I should count my blessings!)
However feel free to continue to pipe up and belittle my comments to Bozo. You have shown grace and generosity of spirit (although only in quite small measures).
Wow, I guess that settles it!!
We have a creator folks!
This is exciting news. And the significance of this is... er... let me see. Everything in the Bible must be true! (Even the bits that contradict each other, because God moves in mysterious ways).
C'mon everyone, let's judge the **** out of all the sinners!
Now, where were we. Oh yes,
Except I don't have a soul! It doesn't bother me at all, apparently my dog doesn't either.
Yes, we are on the same page here!
mozgrame
Engorged member
mozgrame
Engorged member
Then why do you ask questions and want answers??
LOL!!! I'm not sure if you're confused or just wanting to try and prove you're right and other people are wrong. I reckon you perceive religious folk to be of somewhat lesser intelligence than yourself. That would make them easy targets, hey?
Just so you are completely and fully aware of my stance.....I am the same old Moz. I am not baptized....I don't belong to any church or attend any religious festivities. I love a dirty joke, swear like a trooper and enjoy a few beers with the footy. I also believe Jesus was not lying when he said what he said and did what he did.
By the way....you miss the point of Grace if you think people have to mirror Christ to receive it.
If it truly doesn't bother you...why do you feel the need to ask questions and then belittle responses? You may think yourself clever...but in the eyes of people that actually have a clue...you are making yourself look rather silly. And for pity's sake...can you please, pleeaasse learn the difference between Jesus and the church?
Ps - Your dog looks pretty lethargic...are you sure it agrees with you? It looks like it maybe having second thoughts... LOL!!
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MuzztheEagle
Bencher
Yet millions Jews refuse to believe this incontrovertible evidence from their own text about their own Messiah....what fools!!!
But hang on, maybe I can debunk some of your "facts":
I believe the scholar you are referring to is Peter Stoner (not Scoffard). He wrote his book (Science Speaks) in 1950 and since then it has been heavily criticized. Primarily because of his selection items which support his idea along with the interpretation of those items in a manner which, again, supported his hypothesis.
Here is an example - Isaiah 7:14s: "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call his name Immanuel.". However, if you take the original Hebrew verse the word virgin is represented as "almah" which many would argue would be more accurately translated to "young woman". Also: Micah: "But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you one will go forth for me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, from the days of eternity." More likely refers to a descendant of Bethlehem, Jesus was born here but not descended, however David was and it was most likely one of his decedents that the prophesy was referring to.
The Daniel prophesy you mention is incredibly vague: "You looked, O king, and there before you stood a large statue—an enormous, dazzling statue, awesome in appearance. The head of the statue was made of pure gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and thighs of bronze, its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of baked clay.". Furthermore, the partition of Babylon led to the creation of many more than 4 kingdoms and empires and the Roman empire (not directly created by this partition) never conquered or reached the boundaries of the original empire.
But hey I guess interpretation is a type of science
and there wouldn't be any issue with the fact that these texts have been translated and reinterpreted by those who already believed in the writings. 
mozgrame
Engorged member
Yet millions Jews refuse to believe this incontrovertible evidence from their own text about their own Messiah....what fools!!!
But hang on, maybe I can debunk some of your "facts":
I believe the scholar you are referring to is Peter Stoner (not Scoffard). He wrote his book (Science Speaks) in 1950 and since then it has been heavily criticized. Primarily because of his selection items which support his idea along with the interpretation of those items in a manner which, again, supported his hypothesis.
Here is an example - Isaiah 7:14s: "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call his name Immanuel.". However, if you take the original Hebrew verse the word virgin is represented as "almah" which many would argue would be more accurately translated to "young woman". Also: Micah: "But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you one will go forth for me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, from the days of eternity." More likely refers to a descendant of Bethlehem, Jesus was born here but not descended, however David was and it was most likely one of his decedents that the prophesy was referring to. The Daniel prophesy you mention is incredibly vague: "You looked, O king, and there before you stood a large statue—an enormous, dazzling statue, awesome in appearance. The head of the statue was made of pure gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and thighs of bronze, its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of baked clay.". Furthermore, the partition of Babylon led to the creation of many more than 4 kingdoms and empires and the Roman empire (not directly created by this partition) never conquered or reached the boundaries of the original empire.
But hey I guess interpretation is a type of science
Hey Muzz...this might take a while, lol.
The fact that people don't accept evidence is hardly brow raising. Who wanted Jesus on the cross the most? The word almah is confusing isn't it? Semetics scholar Dr Dr. Cyrus Gordon, provides additional insight on the matter: The commonly held view that “virgin” is Christian, whereas “young woman” is Jewish is not quite true. The fact is that the Septuagint, which is the Jewish translation made in pre-Christian Alexandria, takes almah to mean “virgin” here. Accordingly, the New Testament follows Jewish interpretation in Isaiah 7:14. Therefore, the New Testament rendering of almah as “virgin” for Isaiah 7:14 rests on the older Jewish interpretation, which in turn is now borne out for precisely this annunciation formula by a text that is not only pre-Isaianic but is pre-Mosaic in the form that we now have it on a clay tablet. For more...https://jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/issues-v09-n01/almah-virgin-or-young-maiden/
On Micah... 5:2 “But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, who are too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel, whose coming forth is from of old, from ancient days.” The verse clearly speaks of a coming king in Israel, but does it predict the coming of the Messiah?
It makes a couple of predictions. First, the birthplace of this future “ruler of Israel” would be Bethlehem Ephrathah. Since there were two locations known as Bethlehem at the time of Micah’s writing, the addition of Ephrathah is significant. It specifies the Bethlehem in Judah, the portion of Israel in which the capital, Jerusalem, was located. Bethlehem was considered “little,” or insignificant, among the cities of Judah, yet would serve as the birthplace of this future ruler.
Second, the coming ruler of Jewish background was one “whose coming forth is from old, from ancient days.” What else could this refer to other than the Messiah? Only the Messiah fits the description of a ruler in Israel whose origin was from times past. In fact, “from ancient days” is sometimes synonymous with “eternal". Only the Jewish Messiah could be a ruler in Israel from eternity past.
This interpretation is strengthened by the fact that the Jewish religious leaders in the first century identified Micah 5:2 as a Messianic prophecy. In Mathew 2 wise men from the East visited King Herod in Jerusalem and asked where the king of the Jews had been born. Herod assembled all the chief priests and scribes, and “he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born. They told him, ‘In Bethlehem of Judea,’” basing their answer on Micah 5:2
Only Jesus Christ fits the Messianic claims of Micah. He was born in Bethlehem Ephrathah. Jesus claimed to be the Messiah, the ruler of Israel. He also fits the description as being “from ancient times” or eternal. No other ruler in Israel fits these requirements. Dozens of other direct prophecies in the Old Testament (some scholars cite hundreds) fit Jesus’ birth, ministry, and death.
Jesus told the Jews that the Law and the Prophets provided a clear witness that He was who He claimed to be. “These are the Scriptures that testify about me,” He said. Still today, those who investigate the prophecy of Micah and other Messianic passages find compelling evidence that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God.
The Daniel prophecy 2:31-33... You, O king, saw, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before you; and the form thereof was terrible. This image’s head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
Daniel told Nebuchadnezzar that his Babylonian Empire was represented by the head of gold.
This interpretation provided an astounding preview of history. Nebuchadnezzar’s dream occurred and was interpreted by Daniel about 600 B.C. The image represented, in symbolic form, the sequence of great empires that would dominate the region’s political scene for centuries.
The silver empire was to be Medo-Persia, which began with Cyrus the Great, who conquered Babylon in 539 … This silver empire was supreme in the Near and Middle East for about two centuries.
The bronze empire was the Greco-Macedonian Empire established by Alexander the Great … The bronze kingdom lasted for about 260 or 300 years before it was supplanted by the fourth kingdom.
Iron connotes toughness and ruthlessness and describes the Roman Empire that reached its widest extent under the reign of Trajan. Trajan reigned as emperor A.D. 98-117, and the Roman Empire itself ruled for many centuries. The fourth empire was depicted as having 10 toes. The feet and toes were composed partly of iron and partly of clay, as verse 41 explains. Verse 41 deals with a later phase or outgrowth of this fourth empire, symbolized by the feet and ten toes—made up of iron and earthenware, a fragile base for the huge monument. The text clearly implies that this final phase will be marked by some sort of federation rather than by a powerful single realm.
The 4 generals that initially inherited Alexander the greats empire were Ptolemy, Antipater, Seleucus and Antigonus. (I'm pretty sure lol) With the death of Alexander the army was no longer under central control and these generals quickly began to fight civil wars to gain more control of the spoils. The empire fell astonishingly quickly after that. As far as dominating empires go...who was left? It's not about conquering.
Of course...those that don't believe will always dismiss things they don't want to see.
Looks like you have had this dog for a while . How old is it .
If only us humans had the loyalty quality of a dog
The best dog I ever had was a German Sherpered . Loyal to the very end .
Daisy is 10, she is the pup I kept from a litter produced by our last dog, Lola the Labrador. Animals are lower life forms [no opposable thumbs, not very good at maths or grammar) yet its easy to see they think and feel and have characteristics such as you mention, like loyalty. Just like humans, I guess they operate largely from instinct, but in a social context.
MuzztheEagle
Bencher
Belief does not turn opinion into fact or interpretation into evidence.Of course...those that don't believe will always dismiss things they don't want to see.
Regardless of what you choose to believe you will not be able to produce real evidence. This is the flaw in all religious debate and, because no evidence exists the argument always then relies on belief to fill in the blanks. Those that cannot see the missing details simply lack the belief to do so and are dismissed by those who choose not to look at things critically and logically.
I'm not saying that these things weren't predicted or did not happen - because I can't, the evidence does not exist either way it's all interpretation, as you can not state that your interpretation and belief is evidence to support your claim.
These threads always turn silvertails against each other.
I hate to see it.
No I don't. Keep it coming.
Didn't think I'd be much entertained by this thread but I am...
I hate to see it.
No I don't. Keep it coming.
Didn't think I'd be much entertained by this thread but I am...
MuzztheEagle
Bencher
I don't have a lot of time for this but let's consider this line. specifically; Michah 5:2: "But you Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are little among the thousands of Judah." There were and still aren't thousands of towns in this regions, thus to deduct that the Bethlehem Ephrathah mentioned is a town a flawed assumption it would make more sence that this line references the thousands of people of Judah and Bethlehem Ephrathah a clan within the region - of which Jesus did not belong.
Her name was Lola ..
she was a showdog
with feathers in her fur
and a dress cut down to there ...
SHE IS GOING STRAIGHT TO FUKKEN HELL!!!!!!!! ..
Muzz, one side of the argument ... prior to the invention of the printing press, has had almost 2000 years of almost total control of all literature and the copying of all ancient texts if you thing for one minute the monks in Abbey #6 went out of their way to reproduce conflicting testaments or didn't use poetic license to gild the lily ... or heaven forbid, back date prophecy ...... then there is always that bridge that is up for sale ....
Or you could belive the gospels have been faithfully reproduced ... from the originals ... without any adjustment from the clerical censors ...
| Team | P | W | L | PD | Pts |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
7 | 6 | 1 | 54 | 14 |
|
6 | 5 | 1 | 59 | 12 |
|
6 | 4 | 2 | 53 | 10 |
|
6 | 4 | 2 | 30 | 10 |
|
7 | 4 | 2 | 25 | 9 |
|
8 | 4 | 4 | 73 | 8 |
|
7 | 4 | 3 | 40 | 8 |
|
7 | 4 | 3 | 24 | 8 |
|
7 | 3 | 4 | 17 | 8 |
|
7 | 4 | 3 | -8 | 8 |
|
8 | 4 | 4 | -60 | 8 |
|
8 | 3 | 4 | 17 | 7 |
|
6 | 2 | 4 | -31 | 6 |
|
7 | 3 | 4 | -41 | 6 |
|
7 | 2 | 5 | -29 | 4 |
|
7 | 1 | 6 | -87 | 4 |
|
7 | 1 | 6 | -136 | 4 |
