omnipotent beings discussion

[Woodsie]

I’d like to table the following:

Bulldog fans
Stadia lovers
Left wingers
Trump admirers
Greenies
Julia Rudd
Arsenal fans
Religious zealots (he he...the irony escapes them)

Get back to you with the others later after a few beers.

Thank you for your contribution ... and your suggestions all have merit ....

Pss ... I am pretty sure Julia Gillard is already on everybodies lists .... but it can't hurt to make damn sure ....

 

[Class of 96]

Thank you for your contribution ... and your suggestions all have merit ....

Pss ... I am pretty sure Julia Gillard is already on everybodies lists .... but it can't hurt to make damn sure ....

I couldn’t choose between Gillard and Rudd, so did my best to package them in order to leave space for other worthy nominations.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

This is a very good and honest question here and this is a theologians answer

I think Christians often wonder what it means to turn the other cheek. Jesus taught in Matthew 5, “You have heard that it was said ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth’, but I say to you, ‘Do not resist the one who is evil, but if anyone slaps on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.’”

If we pay careful attention to the wording of that verse, Jesus is teaching about turning the other cheek has a specific meaning. If I’m facing someone and I slap that person on the right cheek, it would require me to slap the person with the back of my hand to make contact with the person’s right cheek.

So, I think what it means is that Jesus is telling us not to hit back when someone slaps us an insult. I don’t think it is really talking about escaping or defending ourselves against a violent attack that would do us bodily harm or even kill us.


There are a number of other passages of Scripture that encourage escaping from danger or even using force in self-defense, if necessary, and encourage us to defend other people against wrongful attacks. Jesus’s disciples carried swords, even after three years of traveling with Jesus. In the garden of Gethsemane, they had swords. Swords in the first century were used for self-defense. So, I think there are times in which self-defense to prevent us from suffering significant bodily harm is justified.

Sorry Bozo I didn't read that, if I wanted to google it would have! But I was actually just curious about your own thoughts.

 

[BOZO]

Sorry Bozo I didn't read that, if I wanted to google it would have! But I was actually just curious about your own thoughts.

My own thoughts are as explained in the theological article that I chose that would make it most clear . I am not very articulate and that is why I chose this article that would best answer your question .

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Well can you summarise in a few of your own words. You are perfectly literate and since you bothered to put your view out here I thought I’d pay you the respect to try to discuss with you - whereas I have absolutely no interest in swapping articles from theology professors! (Am out for lunch now but will check in later )

 

[Kevinward777]

You're talking religion. I'm talking Christ. Show me one piece of solid evidence that Jesus ever said to kill another human. This is what I mean when I talk about people and their false understanding of the fundamental difference between religion and Jesus. People think they are clever.....but they fail to see the truth with statements like the one above.

Lets put Muhammad in the ring with Jesus. Muhammad's message started with, "love everyone". Then turned to, "defend yourselves with swords". Finally it was, "kill the infedals".

When Jesus came to break the old law and show the new way.....even in a time of male domination and segregation of the sick....he taught, "love everybody". He went out of his way to reach the minorities and outcasted and accepted the gentiles. He did what the Jewish churches would never do....and all the while he taught, "love everybody, don't retaliate, forgiveness rules". Even while being nailed up, he asked the Father to forgive his persecutors. I could never do that.

Here's some homework if you're truly interested (or maybe you just like to throw in the odd joke here and there) Study the way Jesus lived, what he consistantly taught, the way he died and the evidence of his resurrection. Marry that up against any other "religious" leader you like. He comes out on top.

Some people think he was a good and wise teacher....ahead of his time. Well.....Jesus doesn't give you that option. He said he was God in human form. So, we have to ask ourselves....was he insane and truly mistaken about his identity? (to the point of execution), was he a con man that willingly pulled the wool over everyones eyes? (to the point of execution) or was he the messiah?

I loved to heap crap on christians in the past. Sky pilots, Father Trickemups, gospel floggers etc etc. Then one day I thought....I sound like I know what I'm talking about when being disrespectful to theses people...but do I?? If I don't know the facts of what I'm arguing against....then I'm the dickhead! lol.

I grew up out west in a rough and ready family. Plenty of DV and vilolence in general and didn't even know that was wrong to tell you the truth. It was just everyday living and all my mates were in the same boat. I was uneducated basically because life was about having fun and doing what ever you like, when ever you like. Drink, smoke, sex up, fight at the drop of a hat, steal, lie. It was all up for grabs and I loved it. I truly loved it! Drug deals...especially when things went wrong were the height of good fun. My brother broke a blokes hip once with a golf club in a scallywag scuffle over what we considered to be a fair price. It was all fun and games.

He's still the same. I grew up and parted ways with him and my old mates.

Jesus wasn't part of our lives growing up. And he certainly didn't save me. I had a family while young, took the responsibility seriously, worked hard, bought a house and eventually opened my own businesses. Dad used to tell my old mates I was a self made man...because I had to do it without any help from family of friends. That's why I always advise people to stop whingeing, get off your arse and have a go. If I managed it...anyone can! I still don't go to church. It was probably only about 4/5 months ago that I had an hour or so to kill and this very forum was pretty slow that I thought I probably should do a bit of research. You'll be surprised what you'll discover if you can truly investigate with no preconceived notions.

Once again....dig through historical evidence, archaelogical evidence, read the eye witness accounts in context and ask why would the jews and romans of the time act as they did. DON'T study christianity but weigh up what Jesus taught against every other religion. Investigate the leader of those religions. Many people on here are on the right track by damning "religion"....but don't make the mistake of accusing Jesus of mans agendas, mistakes and atrocities.

Anyway....some of you probably won't talk to me anymore because of my honesty. That's ok. I understand that. I was like that too a while ago......

Thanks for sharing that mate. What an amazing testimony.

 

[BOZO]

Mate, fair dinkum you come up with some bull**** in your play the man posts. @BOZO is not Jesus Christ, he is a human being subject to many flaws. If he works in the security space, he is going to be exposed to many situations where his safety is threatened. So by your idiotic logic, to be a Christian he must put his hands down and allow himself to be assaulted.
Please read @mozgrame post about fools using words in the bible as a basis to devalue and denigrate Christianity. A true Christian does not need to debate and defend a faith that they truly believe in, no matter what slings and arrows come their way.
BTW, if you gave this thread it’s title, the word imaginary to describe God would be highly offensive to Christians, but people like you seem to flip and flop on who and what causes you will be outraged or offended by.

I can see where you are coming from Zimbalist but I did not take it that Seaeaglerock8 was having a go at me.

I thought he wanted to clarity the line in the sand between turning the other cheek and avoiding conflict and........... defending your self from coping a hiding .

I am also support freedom of speech . Every one should say what they think as long as it is not putting down others . I did not sense he was putting any one down .

That was my perception .

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Mate, fair dinkum you come up with some bull**** in your play the man posts. @BOZO is not Jesus Christ, he is a human being subject to many flaws. If he works in the security space, he is going to be exposed to many situations where his safety is threatened. So by your idiotic logic, to be a Christian he must put his hands down and allow himself to be assaulted.
Please read @mozgrame post about fools using words in the bible as a basis to devalue and denigrate Christianity. A true Christian does not need to debate and defend a faith that they truly believe in, no matter what slings and arrows come their way.
BTW, if you gave this thread it’s title, the word imaginary to describe God would be highly offensive to Christians, but people like you seem to flip and flop on who and what causes you will be outraged or offended by.

Thank you for your thoughtful contribution to my discussion with Bozo, and in particular for pointing out that my post was bull**** and was playing the man, and idiotic, etc, when it seems neither Bozo nor myself had realised this. Fyi Bozo and I are both very long term posters here and I have sufficient respect for him that I will generally tell him when I disagree with him, even if I don't usually bother to keep repeating my views.
By the way, you may have missed it but I said I agree that we all have the right to defend ourselves.

 

[Chip and Chase]

Why would I care that you are a long term poster? Are your comments more relevant?
You can dress up your comments however you like, but if they are placed on a public forum I will comment however I see fit.
Regardless of @BOZO dignified response, he is often pilloried on this forum unfairly IMO
Again, the title of this thread is offensive to me, so please change it to something more respectful toward the target audience. Thank you sir

I named the thread and it's for posters who think omnipotent beings are in fact imaginary. If you want to start a discussion on non-imaginary omnipotent beings then you can start a thread on that and I won't be offended.

 

[BOZO]

Well can you summarise in a few of your own words. You are perfectly literate and since you bothered to put your view out here I thought I’d pay you the respect to try to discuss with you - whereas I have absolutely no interest in swapping articles from theology professors! (Am out for lunch now but will check in later )

To summarise in my own words and as the theologian who has studied the Gospel fully rather than take a quote to make an assumption My understanding is

We should turn away from conflict by turning the other cheek but turning the other cheek did not refer at the expense of giving our lives away to someone that is willing to harm us or kill us .

There is no indication from that one quote of turning the other cheek and avoiding conflict that we should not be able to defend our lives .

Hence when we move past that one quote and study the whole Gospel we see that the disciples carried swords with them to defend them selves . If we look at the New Testiment we can confrim that the disciples never used the swords to intimidate any one or start a war but only to defend them selves .

 

[mozgrame]

In regards to Buddah...the major difference I see is that Gautama Buddha was looking for a way to end suffering. He taught that all life is suffering, suffering is caused by desires, so the goal in life is to remove desires so as to remove suffering. The very reason Bubbhism began was to find a way to end suffering in the Hindu culture. The Hindus were all about reincarnation....if you're really good in this life (no matter your standing) you'll come back in a higher position in your next life. Of course....both poor and rich suffer...so Buddah found a way to part from suffering. That was his main aim. Buddah did not believe in a God or a personal soul. Some Buddhist traditions teach reincarnation, but Buddah taught rebirth. The difference being......when you are reborn...you are not the same soul (as the Hindus believe)...you start a new life and begin it with the karma you didn't burn off in your last life.

There is such a huge difference between Buddhism and the teachings of Christ. Jesus claimed to be God and the fulfillment of Jewish prophecy. He claimed to be the only way to salvation for mankind...through Grace....not through works.

Think about this.......how could Jesus possibly have arranged and organised his life to play out as it did? How could he have fulfilled the prophecy written so long before his birth....right to the point of being crucified with the thief? More importantly....why would he??? Why would anyone in those days choose to live so differently, so against the flow....go so far out of his way buck the system....and maintain his course right to the end.

He said he was God. He performed miracles. He was scourged, abused, spat on, laughed at and eventually crucified. And.....he was resurrected...the same soul, the same Jesus. After another 40 days, and after being seen by around 500 people...he ascended to heaven in front of 11 people.

So...was he a nut? (for going through what he endured) Was he a con man? (what did he personally gain from his life and teachings...a few free feeds???) Or was he as he claimed? (as all the evidence points to?)

Free will......it's your choice. I'm not trying to convert anyone. Just answering questions.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

We should turn away from conflict by turning the other cheek but turning the other cheek did not refer at the expense of giving our lives away to someone that is willing to harm us or kill us .

Sounds reasonable, oddly enough I try to take a similar approach despite believing in neither god(s) nor soul!

 

[BOZO]

Sounds reasonable, oddly enough I try to take a similar approach despite believing in neither god(s) nor soul!

Man kinds biggest down fall is anger , hatred , greed , pride , ego, selfishness , jealousy , arrogance and all the negative evil and wicket emotions and thoughts that turn into actions and harm others emotionally and physically and weather one believes in God or not every imperfect person will struggle with one or a number of those negative characteristics . I was put down , abused and beaten up severely up when I was growing up and I developed a bad temper but that is no justification that I can take it out on others as I and every one else is accountable for their own actions . I may struggle at times but with the help of my faith to focus on It has kept me in control when confronted in my job as a bouncer for many years . I do not work as a bouncer any more but I do still hold a security licence in my corporate security job where I look after a Government P1 site
To conclude Just because one is a believer it does not mean they are a better human being than one that does not believe . Every one struggles . No one is perfect and that is why Christ said we should not judge as we all have enough issues of our own large or small to work on instead of being hypocrites and pointing the finger at others
I have many faults and I am far off a good example of a Christian but I always get up and try to redeem my self when I fall .

To me faith is like is not seen as it is invisible like Wi fi and unless you are connected you will not be switched on and feel Gods grace .
Anything in life that we go into not believing we will not reap the rewards

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Man kinds biggest down fall is anger , hatred , greed , pride , ego, selfishness , jealousy , arrogance and all the negative evil and wicket emotions and thoughts that turn into actions and harm others

Interesting. Rather than downfall, I would say those are precisely the characteristics that allow some people to prosper in life!
By taking or maintaining power over others.
And I'm sure you'd agree that some of the most angry, hateful, arrogant selfish etc, consider themselves to be good Christians!

As for saying we should not judge people - codswallop! We should, and we do, all the time! We judge people who do wrong to others (or to ourselves) As do you, in your job or former job. If someone was harassing or assaulting someone you would judge that to be unacceptable and step in to try stop it.

No doubt you're aware of the saying 'religion is the opiate of the masses' - what do you think of that sentiment?

 

[wombatgc]

I’m a card carrying Atheist.....how the hell did I end up in this thread?

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

It's the correct thread for you.
By the way I am not opposed to opiates in general. Footy is pretty much my opiate at present.

 

[BOZO]

Interesting. Rather than downfall, I would say those are precisely the characteristics that allow some people to prosper in life!
By taking or maintaining power over others.
And I'm sure you'd agree that some of the most angry, hateful, arrogant selfish etc, consider themselves to be good Christians!

As for saying we should not judge people - codswallop! We should, and we do, all the time! We judge people who do wrong to others (or to ourselves) As do you, in your job or former job. If someone was harassing or assaulting someone you would judge that to be unacceptable and step in to try stop it.

No doubt you're aware of the saying 'religion is the opiate of the masses' - what do you think of that sentiment?

Those people that wrongly power over others only gain short term . How long does one live ? average 80 years ? But after their old and wrinkly and sick bodies die at an old age , they miss out on the eternal life . Thats the choice and gamble they take .

Just because Christian hypocrites consider them selves good Christians does no mean jack sht as they will also be Judged by the all mighty like all the rest of us will

What I was referring about judging people is condemning them .

As for the saying of Religion is the opiate of the masses .

My view as a person who has experienced my faith is Freedom from my past scars hurts , failures , wrong doing and dissapoinments . . Freedom from keeping hatred of Others and feeling tormented in my soul because of it , An optimistic positive view in life and Secure in my future as it is in Gods hands .

Here is one of the many uplifting gospel songs from peoples experiences life with the faith

The power and freedom one receives from prayer and faith is immesurable .

A typical Prayer written by a person that was freed from his past ....

Amazing Grace, How sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me
I once was lost, but now am found
T'was blind but now I see
T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear
And Grace, my fears relieved
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed
Through many dangers, toils and snares
We have already come.
T'was grace that brought us safe thus far
And grace will lead us home,
And grace will lead us home
Amazing grace, Howe Sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me
I once was lost but now am found
T'was blind but now I see

 

[Eagle thru 'n' thru]

Those people that wrongly power over others only gain short term . How long does one live ? average 80 years ? But after their old and wrinkly and sick bodies die at an old age they miss out on the eternal life . Thats the choice and gamble they take .

Just because Christian hypocrites consider them selves good Christians does no mean jack sht as they will also be Judged by the all mighty like all the rest of us will

What I was referring about judging people is condemning them .

As for the saying of Religion is the opiate of the masses .

My view as a person who has experienced my faith is Freedom from my past scars hurts , failures , wrong doing and dissapoinments . . Freedom from keeping hatred of Others and feeling tormented in my soul because of it , An optimistic positive view in life and Secure in my future as it is in Gods hands .

Here is one of the many uplifting gospel songs from peoples experiences life with the faith

The power and freedom one receives from prayer and faith is immesurable .

A typical Prayer written by a person that was freed from his past ....

Amazing Grace, How sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me
I once was lost, but now am found
T'was blind but now I see
T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear
And Grace, my fears relieved
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed
Through many dangers, toils and snares
We have already come.
T'was grace that brought us safe thus far
And grace will lead us home,
And grace will lead us home
Amazing grace, Howe Sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me
I once was lost but now am found
T'was blind but now I see

A Classic Christian hymn of faith. I never get bored singing this hymn at church. One of my favourites among others to say the least.

I've been reading the exchanges in this thread for a few days now Bozo, and been enjoying it.
Some of the best christians thinkers and apologists today; Ravi Zacheraus, Don Carson, Wayne Grudem, John Lennox (and more) are worth listening to.
Keep it up Bozo.

 

[BOZO]

A Classic Christian hymn of faith. I never get bored singing this hymn at church. One of my favourites among others to say the least.

I've been reading the exchanges in this thread for a few days now Bozo, and been enjoying it.
Some of the best christians thinkers and apologists today; Ravi Zacheraus, Don Carson, Wayne Grudem, John Lennox (and more) are worth listening to.
Keep it up Bozo.

There are plenty of incredible testimonies from people that their faith freed them and changed their lives for the better

Testimonies from uneducated People in the slums to Educated people with Science degrees

At the end of the day one can make their own mind up and find ways to either look for the reasons to believe in some one or something or look for the reasons not to believe . Faith is a choice and with every choice we make there are consequences that go with it .

Here is a Testimony from David Wood very inspiring and true story

 

[BOZO]

Whist we are on this topic about God

Let us never forget to worship the all mighty God of the footy fields .

The Incomparable Immortal and the greatest player ever to grace the footy fields Zachary Robert Fulton