omnipotent beings discussion

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Who likes maths...or gambling lol???

Here are some odds that point towards a creator (IMO). They began writing the old testament around the mid 14th century BC and continued through until the late 1st century AD. So....we have a book that has 40 different authors. 66 books as I said earlier (in another post)...39 in the OT and 27 in the NT. Now this is important...don't miss this....all scripture written by those men was ispired by God.

2 Timmothy 3:16 says...."all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is useful for teaching the truth, rebuking error,correcting faults and giving instruction for right living".". Now...if you look at the greek (you understand why i'm sure)..."given by inspiration" is one word. That word is theopneustos. Theo in greek is God. Pneustos means breathed. The root of breathe would be air. We still use "pneu" in english, like pneumatic tools....they run on air. Is that all clear? OK...let me press on....

So all scripture is God breathed.

2 Peter 1:20 says, "Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit". So God spoke and men wrote.

I bet some of you are thinking...."what a heap of crap this is". Well this is where it gets interesting and very hard to explain...unless you take into account that there just might be a God that is in control of everything....as the evidence points to.

In the OT, there are over 50 prophecies about things to come. Some say 54 some say 300. I've found 44 so far. You can do the same....it's not rocket science.

Isaiah wrote about 700 years before Jesus was born about the virgin birth. Micah named the city in which he'd be born 700 years before his birth. David wrote about crucifixion 1000 years before he was crucified....and that was 500 years before anyone had been crucified! (The first crucifxion historians know of was in 497BC) David describes it and Isaiah speaks of it as well.

Here's a ripper! Daniel writes 500 years BC about this great empire that dominates the world and then is suddenly cut off. It's then divided into 4 empires...then those 4 become 2 empires....then those 2 become 1. Sound familiar?? It should if you know your history lol.....

In 300BC, Alexander the Great ruled it all...then he was killed at the age of 32. (suddenly cut off!) His empire was divided amongst his 4 generals (4 empires). Those 4 empires became 2 empires....the Selucid and the Ptolemaic. Those 2 empires combined and formed the Roman Empire. Then Jesus arrived. Historians are baffled and amazed at the accuracy of Daniels prophecy....500 years before Jesus was born. (And the bible is full of these prophecies...please don't take my word for that....check it out yourselves! It's easy!)

So now...hopefully you've come from thinking, "What crap" and are at least thinking..."Big deal, coincidences happen all the time". Well...lets bring in some maths!!

Dr Peter Scoffard, emeritus professor of science at Edmonton University decided to do a study. The study involved 12 classes of students totalling 600 students and they wanted to find the mathematical odds of the messianic prophecies. They decided on one...that Jesus would be born in Bethlehem. So by taking the population of Bethlehem and the population of the world at that time, it came out that Jesus had a 1 in 300 000 chance of being born in Bethlehem. Not great odds. After they did that, they realised that they hadn't even figured that correctly, because they didn't factor in that Jesus's family didn't live in Bethlehem. So what would the odds be that a census would go out right at that time...and Mary would have to travel to Bethlehem, 9 months pregnant and give birth there....just as Micah said, 700 years earlier. The odds of that would have been terrible, surely.

They were so amazed at those results that they decided to take it a little further. They decided that 50 odd prophecies that came to pass was too big of an order...so they worked on just 8. Just 8 of the 50 odd that Jesus fulfilled. By the way.....the 8 prophecies they chose were ones that historical documents confirm...where he was born, how he died etc....then they submitted their findings to the American Scientific Affiliation. On the results, the ASA said..."These calculations are dependable and accurate in regards to science".

So what were the results???? Well......are you ready for this???/ The mathematical odds of Jesus fulfilling 8 (not 50 odd, even though he did.......just 8) were one in ten to the seventeenth power. How amazing is that? He had 1 chance in 1000 000 000 000 000 000. And that's just the figures for 8 fulfilled prophecies.

Now....I'd imagine the mathematical odds of 66 books written by 40 different authors over 1500 years being so consistent would be gargantuan. But they are congruent...

Do you seriously think that this came about by chance?

A massive thanks to Robert Morris for exposing me to these truths.

Next time...I'll prove to you that the NT is true, accurate and correct.
What a great read mate... much appreciated.
 
Hey Muzz...this might take a while, lol.

The fact that people don't accept evidence is hardly brow raising. Who wanted Jesus on the cross the most? The word almah is confusing isn't it? Semetics scholar Dr Dr. Cyrus Gordon, provides additional insight on the matter: The commonly held view that “virgin” is Christian, whereas “young woman” is Jewish is not quite true. The fact is that the Septuagint, which is the Jewish translation made in pre-Christian Alexandria, takes almah to mean “virgin” here. Accordingly, the New Testament follows Jewish interpretation in Isaiah 7:14. Therefore, the New Testament rendering of almah as “virgin” for Isaiah 7:14 rests on the older Jewish interpretation, which in turn is now borne out for precisely this annunciation formula by a text that is not only pre-Isaianic but is pre-Mosaic in the form that we now have it on a clay tablet. For more...https://jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/issues-v09-n01/almah-virgin-or-young-maiden/

On Micah... 5:2 “But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, who are too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel, whose coming forth is from of old, from ancient days.” The verse clearly speaks of a coming king in Israel, but does it predict the coming of the Messiah?

It makes a couple of predictions. First, the birthplace of this future “ruler of Israel” would be Bethlehem Ephrathah. Since there were two locations known as Bethlehem at the time of Micah’s writing, the addition of Ephrathah is significant. It specifies the Bethlehem in Judah, the portion of Israel in which the capital, Jerusalem, was located. Bethlehem was considered “little,” or insignificant, among the cities of Judah, yet would serve as the birthplace of this future ruler.

Second, the coming ruler of Jewish background was one “whose coming forth is from old, from ancient days.” What else could this refer to other than the Messiah? Only the Messiah fits the description of a ruler in Israel whose origin was from times past. In fact, “from ancient days” is sometimes synonymous with “eternal". Only the Jewish Messiah could be a ruler in Israel from eternity past.

This interpretation is strengthened by the fact that the Jewish religious leaders in the first century identified Micah 5:2 as a Messianic prophecy. In Mathew 2 wise men from the East visited King Herod in Jerusalem and asked where the king of the Jews had been born. Herod assembled all the chief priests and scribes, and “he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born. They told him, ‘In Bethlehem of Judea,’” basing their answer on Micah 5:2

Only Jesus Christ fits the Messianic claims of Micah. He was born in Bethlehem Ephrathah. Jesus claimed to be the Messiah, the ruler of Israel. He also fits the description as being “from ancient times” or eternal. No other ruler in Israel fits these requirements. Dozens of other direct prophecies in the Old Testament (some scholars cite hundreds) fit Jesus’ birth, ministry, and death.

Jesus told the Jews that the Law and the Prophets provided a clear witness that He was who He claimed to be. “These are the Scriptures that testify about me,” He said. Still today, those who investigate the prophecy of Micah and other Messianic passages find compelling evidence that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God.

The Daniel prophecy 2:31-33... You, O king, saw, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before you; and the form thereof was terrible. This image’s head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

Daniel told Nebuchadnezzar that his Babylonian Empire was represented by the head of gold.

This interpretation provided an astounding preview of history. Nebuchadnezzar’s dream occurred and was interpreted by Daniel about 600 B.C. The image represented, in symbolic form, the sequence of great empires that would dominate the region’s political scene for centuries.

The silver empire was to be Medo-Persia, which began with Cyrus the Great, who conquered Babylon in 539 … This silver empire was supreme in the Near and Middle East for about two centuries.

The bronze empire was the Greco-Macedonian Empire established by Alexander the Great … The bronze kingdom lasted for about 260 or 300 years before it was supplanted by the fourth kingdom.

Iron connotes toughness and ruthlessness and describes the Roman Empire that reached its widest extent under the reign of Trajan. Trajan reigned as emperor A.D. 98-117, and the Roman Empire itself ruled for many centuries. The fourth empire was depicted as having 10 toes. The feet and toes were composed partly of iron and partly of clay, as verse 41 explains. Verse 41 deals with a later phase or outgrowth of this fourth empire, symbolized by the feet and ten toes—made up of iron and earthenware, a fragile base for the huge monument. The text clearly implies that this final phase will be marked by some sort of federation rather than by a powerful single realm.

The 4 generals that initially inherited Alexander the greats empire were Ptolemy, Antipater, Seleucus and Antigonus. (I'm pretty sure lol) With the death of Alexander the army was no longer under central control and these generals quickly began to fight civil wars to gain more control of the spoils. The empire fell astonishingly quickly after that. As far as dominating empires go...who was left? It's not about conquering.

Of course...those that don't believe will always dismiss things they don't want to see. @:)
This is some very impressive research you’ve done @mozgrame... thanks for taking the time to post it up mate.
 
I tried to upload a youtube presentation (my luditeness wins again) but not sure how to.

Youtube search, Lee Strobel-The Case For Christ. Worth listening to.
 
I tried to upload a youtube presentation (my luditeness wins again) but not sure how to.

Youtube search, Lee Strobel-The Case For Christ. Worth listening to.

In the interest of balance here is a critic of Strobel's work:
...both should put you to sleep, if they don't then it's time to get a new hobby.

Personally, my biggest issue with Strobel isn't the fact that he fails to apply the ruthless skepticism he talks about to his chosen topic, it is his completely misguided idea of what atheism is.
Firstly I am not self centered and hedonistic and have never thought I could act that way because this life is all there is. If anything the thought that this life is all you get increases the preciousness of it, not just for me but for all other people on the planet. What's more I think most of us have moved past this self centered and hedonistic phase of our lives (i.e. our teenage years and early twenties) its called growing up and it comes from both changes in our brains and a desire to grow up. This can lead to a greater understanding of how important our lives are, but I wouldn't call it "finding god".
My other issue is his idea of what an Atheist believes. To be an atheists does not mean you believe that a/many god/s do NOT exist but that there is not enough EVIDENCE to support that claim. I haven't rejected god because I never had that belief to begin with, just like believers did with the other 3000 odd belief systems in existence.
I don't believe in god because there is not enough evidence to support that claim just like I don't believe in the fairies at the bottom of the garden hiding my car keys every night and you don't believe in the thousand of other gods and beliefs of others. If you ask me how the universe cam into existence my answer will be "I don't know". One of the biggest challenges for people seems to be the fear of these 3 words (I don't know) and the easiest solution is to create a solution to something that is too complex to process.
 
Now you're scraping the Botton of the barrell @:)
Who is?
I'm attempting to find some common ground and promote a civilized discourse which may lead some of us to a common understanding. Rather than spouting random facts and theories to support my claim or ridiculing those that believe they are true.

You may prefers something from Matt Dillahunty if not de Botton (who is definitely not without flaw)
 
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Good post!
Some people take their faith very seriously, others not so. But since the thread was moved, a couple of serial blow flys have visited and flown away in typical fashion.
A Christian does not mind scrutiny, in fact they welcome it. Not to debate the legitimacy, but to create an awareness...however uncomfortable that may be.
For the non believer or apostate, this thread is nonsense. But I thank whoever is responsible for its existence.
Thanks to anybody who shows a modicum of respect enough to not take the piss with “sky fairy” calls etc
But at the end of the day, the bible prophesises this exact behaviour from society. It’s funny, we see our society as progressive and inclusive more now than at any time in history.
Examine that context for a Christian?
Great post mate...
 
Finally....the documentary we all need:
May you be touched by his noodly appendage

icsmall.jpg
 
Finally....the documentary we all need:
May you be touched by his noodly appendage

icsmall.jpg
It would seem that you possess a real zeal for promoting this kind of material mate. However, there is one thing you will never overcome, nor disprove. And that my friend, is the experiential aspect which every true believer encounters during their faith.

All the mocking, facetiousness, and spurious wise cracks become less than water to a ducks back once that occurs for someone. I like to think of it as the empirical evidence of the human soul.

But it’s whatever tickles your fancy I guess.
 
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It would seem that you possess a real zeal for promoting this kind of material mate. However, there is one thing you will never overcome, nor disprove. And that my friend, is the experiential aspect which every true believer encounters during their faith.

All the mocking, facetiousness, and spurious wise cracks become less than water to a ducks back once that occurs for someone. I like to think of it as the empirical evidence of the human soul.

But it’s whatever tickles your fancy I guess.
As YOU can never prove the existence of your chosen God! Yet, there remains a need by those who are religious to jam it down the throats of others and/or quote religious freedom when religious ideals fall short of the standards set by our contemporary human rights.
At the end of the day I have no issue with what others choose to believe, although it does amaze me what intelligent people choose to. But, when people start to quote claims and opinions as fact which they then use to claim their own superiority or vilify others then I will (and have for many other issues on this site) speak up.
If you have evidence that proves your religion is more valid than the Flying Spaghetti Monster then please enlighten the non-believers of your chosen religion (that make up the majority of the world) through solid evidence and logic and not opinion and claims. Until you can do that you have no right to judge, vilify or criticizes the actions and thoughts of others that don't live up to the beliefs of your chosen deity.
 

In the interest of balance here is a critic of Strobel's work:
...both should put you to sleep, if they don't then it's time to get a new hobby.

Personally, my biggest issue with Strobel isn't the fact that he fails to apply the ruthless skepticism he talks about to his chosen topic, it is his completely misguided idea of what atheism is.
Firstly I am not self centered and hedonistic and have never thought I could act that way because this life is all there is. If anything the thought that this life is all you get increases the preciousness of it, not just for me but for all other people on the planet. What's more I think most of us have moved past this self centered and hedonistic phase of our lives (i.e. our teenage years and early twenties) its called growing up and it comes from both changes in our brains and a desire to grow up. This can lead to a greater understanding of how important our lives are, but I wouldn't call it "finding god".
My other issue is his idea of what an Atheist believes. To be an atheists does not mean you believe that a/many god/s do NOT exist but that there is not enough EVIDENCE to support that claim. I haven't rejected god because I never had that belief to begin with, just like believers did with the other 3000 odd belief systems in existence.
I don't believe in god because there is not enough evidence to support that claim just like I don't believe in the fairies at the bottom of the garden hiding my car keys every night and you don't believe in the thousand of other gods and beliefs of others. If you ask me how the universe cam into existence my answer will be "I don't know". One of the biggest challenges for people seems to be the fear of these 3 words (I don't know) and the easiest solution is to create a solution to something that is too complex to process.
How you can possibly imagine that most of us have moved past a self centred, hedonistic lifestyle ignites head shaking bewilderment.

All one has to do is take a peek at the newsfeed on a smartphone each day for a week to see that ain’t so.

Facebook, Tinder, Snapchat, Twitter... the self worship just goes on and on, and on. We now exist within an I, me, mine society. Drug abuse has spiked, murder has spiked, rape has spiked, organised crime has spiked, lawlessness has spiked, mental health issues have spiked, disrespect towards elders amongst the youth has spiked. And some geniuses want to excuse it all away under the pretence that we are only becoming aware of these issues because of social media and the internet.

At the end of the day, people are free to believe what they want. (within reason) But hedonism, and pop art self indulgence are most certainly all the rage.
 
As YOU can never prove the existence of your chosen God! Yet, there remains a need by those who are religious to jam it down the throats of others and/or quote religious freedom when religious ideals fall short of the standards set by our contemporary human rights.
At the end of the day I have no issue with what others choose to believe, although it does amaze me what intelligent people choose to. But, when people start to quote claims and opinions as fact which they then use to claim their own superiority or vilify others then I will (and have for many other issues on this site) speak up.
If you have evidence that proves your religion is more valid than the Flying Spaghetti Monster then please enlighten the non-believers of your chosen religion (that make up the majority of the world) through solid evidence and logic and not opinion and claims. Until you can do that you have no right to judge, vilify or criticizes the actions and thoughts of others that don't live up to the beliefs of your chosen deity.
Who have I vilified? If you choose to place forever into a bowl of fettuccine then good luck to you. If you consider that to be a valid and wise argument, again I say, good luck.

I replied to one of your MANY posts... mmm... jamming down the throat perhaps? I actually love contemporary human rights. Sixteen thousand children die every day as a result of starvation related issues. Why isn’t our society enraged by this fact? They’re the kind of human rights I would love to see more people become fired up about, but strangely, we rarely hear very much about it. People would rather scream blue bloody murder about some guy who posted a scripture which happened to contain the word homosexual in the text. Farking ludicrousness.

Having faith in Jesus doesn’t make a person superior, and I dare say that any professing Christian who makes such a claim has lost their way. EVERY life is precious. Just because somebody ticks a particular box on a census form, or says they are a Christian doesn’t make it so. An authentic believer, is a person who has accepted Jesus Christ into their heart as Lord and Saviour, and they will understand with absolute clarity, that they are no better than anybody else.

If that offends you, then so be it!
 
How you can possibly imagine that most of us have moved past a self centred, hedonistic lifestyle ignites head shaking bewilderment.

All one has to do is take a peek at the newsfeed on a smartphone each day for a week to see that ain’t so.

Facebook, Tinder, Snapchat, Twitter... the self worship just goes on and on, and on. We now exist within an I, me, mine society. Drug abuse has spiked, murder has spiked, rape has spiked, organised crime has spiked, lawlessness has spiked, mental health issues have spiked, disrespect towards elders amongst the youth has spiked. And some geniuses want to excuse it all away under the pretence that we are only becoming aware of these issues because of social media and the internet.

At the end of the day, people are free to believe what they want. (within reason) But hedonism, and pop art self indulgence are most certainly all the rage.
Well do you have evidence to show that these rates have spiked? I certainly feel safer walking the streets of most major cities today than I would have 100 years ago or as I do in the major cities of predominately Christian countries (South America, Eastern Europe, Africa etc). And this is definitely a truth any women will tell you about rape who live in those countries.
What's more what EVIDENCE do you have to support that atheism is the cause of this. Personally I have a strong OPINION that social media and the internet MAY be a major contributor to the Me culture you speak of - but I would need to research this claim before I believed it.
 
Well do you have evidence to show that these rates have spiked? I certainly feel safer walking the streets of most major cities today than I would have 100 years ago or as I do in the major cities of predominately Christian countries (South America, Eastern Europe, Africa etc). And this is definitely a truth any women will tell you about rape who live in those countries.
What's more what EVIDENCE do you have to support that atheism is the cause of this. Personally I have a strong OPINION that social media and the internet MAY be a major contributor to the Me culture you speak of - but I would need to research this claim before I believed it.
I never said atheism was the cause. The internet is a huge contributing factor... I merely posted that hedonism and self indulgence appear to be stronger now than ever.

If you feel our society is a better place than it was twenty years ago... then that’s what you believe.
 
Who have I vilified? If you choose to place forever into a bowl of fettuccine then good luck to you. If you consider that to be a valid and wise argument, again I say, good luck.

I replied to one of your MANY posts... mmm... jamming down the throat perhaps? I actually love contemporary human rights. Sixteen thousand children die every day as a result of starvation related issues. Why isn’t our society enraged by this fact? They’re the kind of human rights I would love to see more people become fired up about, but strangely, we rarely hear very much about it. People would rather scream blue bloody murder about some guy who posted a scripture which happened to contain the word homosexual in the text. Farking ludicrousness.
I have taken umbrage towards those who essentially created this thread. (I may be wrong here but) It has been significantly sidetracked since it's original purpose: to celebrate what an intelligent, caring and all round great person that Ian Roberts is. And rather than listening to what this truly inspiring individual had to say many "believers" decided to drag this back to an argument about how the prophet Izzy was well within his religions rights to inform those who happen to be attracted to the same sex that they deserve to burn in hell for all eternity.
Now I don't think Izzy deserved to be stood down for saying what he did (there is definitely a business case that Rugby Australia made the right decision) but if people want to make those sorts of claims then they should expect to have those claims and the beliefs they rest upon to be heavily critiqued.
 
I have taken umbrage towards those who essentially created this thread. (I may be wrong here but) It has been significantly sidetracked since it's original purpose: to celebrate what an intelligent, caring and all round great person that Ian Roberts is. And rather than listening to what this truly inspiring individual had to say many "believers" decided to drag this back to an argument about how the prophet Izzy was well within his religions rights to inform those who happen to be attracted to the same sex that they deserve to burn in hell for all eternity.
Now I don't think Izzy deserved to be stood down for saying what he did (there is definitely a business case that Rugby Australia made the right decision) but if people want to make those sorts of claims then they should expect to have those claims and the beliefs they rest upon to be heavily critiqued.
Fair enough.
 

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