omnipotent beings discussion

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MuzztheEagle

Bencher
Muzz, one side of the argument ... prior to the invention of the printing press, has had almost 2000 years of almost total control of all literature and the copying of all ancient texts if you thing for one minute the monks in Abbey #6 went out of their way to reproduce conflicting testaments or didn't use poetic license to gild the lily ... or heaven forbid, back date prophecy ...... then there is always that bridge that is up for sale ....

Or you could belive the gospels have been faithfully reproduced ... from the originals ... without any adjustment from the clerical censors ...
True (and I already touched on this) and regardless of whether the intent to do this existed or not there is still a significant impact on the current texts and translations. Any bilingual person can tell you that not everything can be translated across languages and details and true meanings will always be lost. It's especially true when you consider when ancient scholars did there recreations and translations they didn't have google to look up a word or the ability to zoom in on a letter when they couldn't quite read it.
ti114353.jpg
 

MuzztheEagle

Bencher
Her name was Lola ..
she was a showdog
with feathers in her fur
and a dress cut down to there ...

SHE IS GOING STRAIGHT TO FUKKEN HELL!!!!!!!! ..
But she can't even go to hell without a soul :(
Ironically my version of hell will see me sent to heaven - to listen to Christians/Muslims/Whatever tell me how they were right all along... for the rest of eternity :p
 

Woodsie

Feast yer eyes ..
Tipping Member
True (and I already touched on this) and regardless of whether the intent to do this existed or not there is still a significant impact on the current texts and translations. Any bilingual person can tell you that not everything can be translated across languages and details and true meanings will always be lost. It's especially true when you consider when ancient scholars did there recreations and translations they didn't have google to look up a word or the ability to zoom in on a letter when they couldn't quite read it.
ti114353.jpg

.. And a vested or spiritual reason to prefer a certain word or inturpretation
 

BOZO

Journey Man
Tipping Member
Evidence that he may have existed - YES
Evidence that he was the son of God - NO (plenty of opinions though)

Without witnesses we cannot have any evidence

The evidence are those witnesses that saw Christ heal the sick and the blind and rise the dead and finally saw him rise form the dead him self

Those witnesses were jailed and beaten up and killed for not denying their faith and worship Christ as their saviour
 

Eagle thru 'n' thru

Reserve Grader
Today some claim that Jesus is just an idea, rather than a real historical figure, but there is a good deal of written evidence for his existence 2,000 years ago
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...cal-evidence-that-jesus-christ-lived-and-died

One thing that I think is powerful testimony to the reliability of the New Testament claims of Jesus Christ is that the first followers of Jesus is the first followers themselves. These disciples plus the 500 that eyewitnessed the ascension of Jesus continued to grow into thousands. If Jesus Christ was 'made up' by the first followers, then Jesus the Christ, the disciples and christianity is a hoax of mega proportions. Early christianity (1st century) would've disappeared rapidly at the persecution of christians if it was all a made up lie. The disciples who were martyred for their insistant belief and a devotion to a 'made-up' character would not last. These disciples died upholding a belief that Jesus is the Christ that was to come, and the truth that the world desparately needs. Christianity didn't die out under persecution but grew and the first followers are commended for that.
 

MuzztheEagle

Bencher
Without witnesses we cannot have any evidence

The evidence are those witnesses that saw Christ heal the sick and the blind and rise the dead and finally saw him rise form the dead him self

Those witnesses were jailed and beaten up and killed for not denying their faith and worship Christ as their saviour
Plenty of supposed faith healers with hundreds of witnesses claiming similar feats. I've met plenty who believe in the Loch Ness monster and Big Foot.
If I was a Roman/Jewish leader back in the day and heard about some guy who could miraculously cure illness I would probably ask him to be my GP (even if that meant holding him against his will) rather than crucifying him.
Also:
upload_2019-5-17_11-46-35.png

If god wanted to heal people through his Son, why didn't he have him inform them about bacteria and viruses and the benefits of good sanitation?
 

BOZO

Journey Man
Tipping Member
Plenty of supposed faith healers with hundreds of witnesses claiming similar feats. I've met plenty who believe in the Loch Ness monster and Big Foot.
If I was a Roman/Jewish leader back in the day and heard about some guy who could miraculously cure illness I would probably ask him to be my GP (even if that meant holding him against his will) rather than crucifying him.
Also:
View attachment 11447

Beware of imitations .......

Yes there were plenty of supposed faith healers and only but died on the Cross and was resurrected . Only one is the most celebrated in our whole calender year .

There are many Doctors and Scientists that are Christians thank you very much Daniel Sloss
 

MuzztheEagle

Bencher
Beware of imitations .......

Yes there were plenty of supposed faith healers and only one died on the Cross and was resurrected . Only one is the most celebrated in our whole calender year .

There are many Doctors and Scientists that are Christians thank you very much Daniel Sloss
Your right Bozo.....All hail Santa!!!!! the bringer of presents!
55728b663eca2ef42c818321235186fc--father-christmas-christmas-stuff.jpg
 
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MuzztheEagle

Bencher
Beware of imitations .......

Yes there were plenty of supposed faith healers and only but died on the Cross and was resurrected . Only one is the most celebrated in our whole calender year .

There are many Doctors and Scientists that are Christians thank you very much Daniel Sloss
Yet Christianity continues to decline while the number of us identifying as having no religion increases at record rates. Why is this? Are we approaching the end of days :devil: or are modern societies simply embracing the freedom and access to knowledge that simply hasn't existing in the past? :whew:
1.4490!OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=gif
 

SeaEagleRock8

Sea Eagle Lach
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Then why do you ask questions and want answers??
It's called discourse, you know, like the exchange of ideas?
But don't worry, I won't look any further in your direction for ideas, as I've no interest in ploughing through 1000s of words of cut and pasted intellectual self-stimulation.
 

Eagle thru 'n' thru

Reserve Grader
Muzz, one side of the argument ... prior to the invention of the printing press, has had almost 2000 years of almost total control of all literature and the copying of all ancient texts if you thing for one minute the monks in Abbey #6 went out of their way to reproduce conflicting testaments or didn't use poetic license to gild the lily ... or heaven forbid, back date prophecy ...... then there is always that bridge that is up for sale ....

Or you could belive the gospels have been faithfully reproduced ... from the originals ... without any adjustment from the clerical censors ...

Muslim's (and others) claim that the gospels and the New Testament have been changed therefore it cannot be a reliable source for placing one's faith. If this is true, then I would agree. However, since this belief (the gospels/NT has been changed from the original) is expressed as a "truth claim", then how can this "truth claim" be varified without the original manuscripts?

If the nutshell messege of the good news is that Jesus provided the only way to redemption and reconcilation to God throught His death on the cross, the forgiveness of sins, one needs to ask, what was the original messege by christians before the scriptures we have today? Was a bad messege changed to good? If so, what was it and where's the evidence?
Why did the writers of the gospels included bad and embarassing behaviours and statements, why weren't they omitted in the copying of the N/T?
The very fact that these have not been omitted shows the importance that the copyist's viewed the claims found in the originals.
 

MuzztheEagle

Bencher
Muslim's (and others) claim that the gospels and the New Testament have been changed therefore it cannot be a reliable source for placing one's faith. If this is true, then I would agree. However, since this belief (the gospels/NT has been changed from the original) is expressed as a "truth claim", then how can this "truth claim" be varified without the original manuscripts?

If the nutshell messege of the good news is that Jesus provided the only way to redemption and reconcilation to God throught His death on the cross, the forgiveness of sins, one needs to ask, what was the original messege by christians before the scriptures we have today? Was a bad messege changed to good? If so, what was it and where's the evidence?
Why did the writers of the gospels included bad and embarassing behaviours and statements, why weren't they omitted in the copying of the N/T?
The very fact that these have not been omitted shows the importance that the copyist's viewed the claims found in the originals.
So your saying it's so bad they can't possibly have fixed it - didn't Parra use that as an excuse when they got caught cheating the salary cap :)
 

Chip and Chase

True Supporter
Staff member
Administrator
Premium Member
Tipping Member
When I see threads like this I feel guilty for wondering where all my spare time goes and why I don't have time to do all this sort of research into life and my being. I don't even have time to read this thread LOL. Just flat out working, looking after kids and watching Manly each week. That's not to belittle any of the info here, what I have skimmed over seems fascinating, some well read Silvertails members that's for sure. I wish I had the time to be in a position to make a more worthwhile contribution.

It's an emotional subject as we all know, however I've resigned myself to never really finding out what the go is until the day I die. Unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to report back my findings if history is an indication, given the many who have gone before me never to be heard from again (I hope that is right ?? - happy to be corrected).

* Thread title changed by the way
 

BOZO

Journey Man
Tipping Member
Yet Christianity continues to decline while the number of us identifying as having no religion increases at record rates. Why is this? Are we approaching the end of days :devil: or are modern societies simply embracing the freedom and access to knowledge that simply hasn't existing in the past? :whew:
1.4490!OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=gif

Just because The leading faith is declining it does not disprove any of the facts of its existence

Interesting to see that along with the leading faith declining is the declining of morals and principles in society along with that Drug abuse and suicide is up as well in record numbers as people turn to those alternatives with their freedom of choice
 

BOZO

Journey Man
Tipping Member
Good post!
Some people take their faith very seriously, others not so. But since the thread was moved, a couple of serial blow flys have visited and flown away in typical fashion.
A Christian does not mind scrutiny, in fact they welcome it. Not to debate the legitimacy, but to create an awareness...however uncomfortable that may be.
For the non believer or apostate, this thread is nonsense. But I thank whoever is responsible for its existence.
Thanks to anybody who shows a modicum of respect enough to not take the piss with “sky fairy” calls etc
But at the end of the day, the bible prophesises this exact behaviour from society. It’s funny, we see our society as progressive and inclusive more now than at any time in history.
Examine that context for a Christian?

Another thing .....

Christian faith does not fail humanity . Humanity fails the faith

Why ?

Because Christian hypocrites like me should be a greater example to the word of God in action rather then just spread the word .

Which goes back to why Christ said do not judge others .....

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye;
and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
 
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