Manase Fainu

[southsideeagle]

Yes .. now that makes sense re Foran hooker on paper but never spends much time there if any

 

[Mataiforever]

I guess it is because there are limited opportunities for hookers as it is a specialist position for which there is only one FG spot. If their junior club has an entrenched FG hooker, it makes sense to look for greener pastures.

The thing that our search for a replacement hooker has shown is how limited the hooker stocks are out there. There are perhaps 3 extremely good hookers in the comp (Smith, Cook, Hodgson), 3 very good (Grant, Api and B. Hunt) and then the rest are what I would describe as being on a spectrum of 'decent' to 'making up the numbers'. (I'm deliberately excluding Manase given he cannot currently play.)

Mahoney is a bit of a gun. Friend not too bad either... and Turpin goes well when he's fit.

 

[Technical Coach]

Probably because he only played 40 minutes a game. Turbo received just 3% of votes for fullback in the same poll

Most forum members would agree there are some classy skills displayed here

Where have i stated that i feel "Fainu doesn't offer anything in attack", i think it is over exaggerated but as i said before having an all round passing game and quality defence are required if you are not Cam Smith.

Show me a Youtube clip of his quality defence, effort plays and all round crisp passing from dummy half that goes beyond the first short lead runner(that simple pass is sufficient only if the forwards have punch---which they did for some parts in 2019)

And no i don't think the go forward in 2019 was a result of Fainu's presence, but Fainu's style of play can offer more points off the back of such good go forward.

 

[Technical Coach]

Respectfully, I really couldn't disagree with you more on this. I believe there was a clear correlation between Fainu on the field and an increase in team performance. His passing game is much better than you give it credit for, particularly the timing of his passes and his capacity to set up a try or line break at crucial moments in the game. That shows vision, game awareness and an ability to play in the big moments, which in that sense, is a form of leadership. He has a kicking game from his years in the halves and that will come through in time and with encouragement - you could name probably only Smith and Hodgson who kick effectively from that position.

I also think you have it somewhat backwards with your assessment of the position and its influence on the game - particularly now. The hooker touches the ball more than any other player, starts off each play, is required to make the right decision by getting it to the right player at the right time, or go themselves so that the team takes advantage of sloppy markers and/or unstructured defensive lines. They also are best positioned to take advantage of the six again rule - either by drawing the call in the first instance or attacking once it is given. They also need to shore up the ruck defensively. Therefore, I certainly don't see a hooker as the 'cherry on top' so to speak who "completes the equation".

I expect him to be rusty and in need of time to capture form and fitness after a long lay-off if he does come back; however, he has class which can't help but shine through and an ability to read the game well for someone so early in his career.

This topic always get sidetracked by Fainu's attacking abilities as if that is all that matters.

His passing is average at best---sufficient and well timed short passing around the ruck only gets you so far, i don't see strong lateral passing with crisp cut outs and face balls to be able to hit the edges in quick time.

All i see is a player that is good off second phase plays and some nice jinks out of dummy half with offloads and slicing through the line when good go forward has been established---would of made zero difference this last year.

Defensively soft as s%^t, hiding in the defensive line looking for breathers, rarely initiates contact in a tackle and just braces/waits for contact, i rarely see him offer inside pressure defence out of marker or general play or trying to push others along in kick chasers etc.(Not all hookers are great in the tackling department, i mean Cam Smith gets away with it because of all the other qualities he possesses.)

Yes his shoulder injury and playing with it for a lot of the year is a good sign of toughness and partly the reason his defence was soft. Fainu admitted in an interview that he is not the best defensively and i fear it will only get worse with the lingering thought of another shoulder injury playing on his mind.

 

[Simonmyers11]

This topic always get sidetracked by Fainu's attacking abilities as if that is all that matters.

His passing is average at best---sufficient and well timed short passing around the ruck only gets you so far, i don't see strong lateral passing with crisp cut outs and face balls to be able to hit the edges in quick time.

All i see is a player that is good off second phase plays and some nice jinks out of dummy half with offloads and slicing through the line when good go forward has been established---would of made zero difference this last year.

Defensively soft as s%^t, hiding in the defensively line looking for breathers, rarely initiates contact in a tackle and just braces/waits for contact, i rarely see him offer inside pressure defence out of marker or general play or trying to push others along in kick chasers etc.(Not all hookers are great in the tackling department, i mean Cam Smith gets away with it because of all the other qualities he possesses.)

Yes his shoulder injury and playing with it for a lot of the year is a good sign of toughness and partly the reason his defence was soft. Fainu admitted in an interview that he is not the best defensively and i fear it will only get worse with the lingering thought of another shoulder injury playing on his mind.

Absolute rubbish. Faniu has a cracking passing game, footy smarts, and is not soft in defence, don't know where you get that from. You think a hooker is good if he can pass a nice long face ball, just like you were a fan of Levi's passing. Unfortunately, just cause you can throw a nice spiral doesn't mean **** if you have no footy smarts. Faniu is a rare talent, he will be a star no doubt.when he played, opposition just held off him, he runs with the ball out in front and is a very good ball player. Knows when to run, when to pass, engages the defence, has an off load, tackle break, good support play and was only in his second year. Imagine what he will be like in a few more

 

[manlyfan76]

Defensively soft as s%^t,

You have never seen him play, have you.

 

[pjayz]

This topic always get sidetracked by Fainu's attacking abilities as if that is all that matters.

His passing is average at best---sufficient and well timed short passing around the ruck only gets you so far, i don't see strong lateral passing with crisp cut outs and face balls to be able to hit the edges in quick time.

All i see is a player that is good off second phase plays and some nice jinks out of dummy half with offloads and slicing through the line when good go forward has been established---would of made zero difference this last year.

Defensively soft as s%^t, hiding in the defensively line looking for breathers, rarely initiates contact in a tackle and just braces/waits for contact, i rarely see him offer inside pressure defence out of marker or general play or trying to push others along in kick chasers etc.(Not all hookers are great in the tackling department, i mean Cam Smith gets away with it because of all the other qualities he possesses.)

Yes his shoulder injury and playing with it for a lot of the year is a good sign of toughness and partly the reason his defence was soft. Fainu admitted in an interview that he is not the best defensively and i fear it will only get worse with the lingering thought of another shoulder injury playing on his mind.

Fair enough. We see two different players. To say he would have made no difference to us this year is mind boggling to me.

 

[Technical Coach]

Fair enough. We see two different players. To say he would have made no difference to us this year is mind boggling to me.

What is more mind boggling is people thinking that go forward would of improved as a result of Fainu playing----ridiculous.

Many other elements of team performance need to come together before a hooker makes a substantial difference in that regard.

Look at today with Damien Cook not having much impact because the go forward was lacking due to fatigued and in general feeling flat bigger forwards(from the long season along with the heat) that lacked impact and wingers not taking up the slack either.

The speed and energy of the Panthers defensive line has been impressive to watch and their ability to adjust----lots of energy from the inside to support the outside defenders--- these are effort plays----i don't see Fainu doing that.

 

[Technical Coach]

You have never seen him play, have you.

Maybe because Fainu hides so much in the defensive line i struggle to see him....

 

[Sheikheagle]

Maybe because Fainu hides so much in the defensive line i struggle to see him....

99.9% of posters on here have a differing opinion to you. Surely 99.9% of people aren’t wrong

 

[pjayz]

What is more mind boggling is people thinking that go forward would of improved as a result of Fainu playing----ridiculous.

Many other elements of team performance need to come together before a hooker makes a substantial difference in that regard.

Look at today with Damien Cook not having much impact because the go forward was lacking due to fatigued and in general feeling flat bigger forwards(from the long season along with the heat) that lacked impact and wingers not taking up the slack either.

The speed and energy of the Panthers defensive line has been impressive to watch and their ability to adjust----lots of energy from the inside to support the outside defenders--- these are effort plays----i don't see Fainu doing that.

No point discussing it any further. If Fainu played this year we would have won another three or four more games. If you don’t think so, that’s fine. You exaggerate his defensive liabilities and underestimate his attack and vision. Based on your posts I don’t believe you have a grasp on the importance of the position.

 

[XV-1]

99.9% of posters on here have a differing opinion to you. Surely 99.9% of people aren’t wrong

I agree with TC. Fainu defensively is weak and lazy.
Easier to be fresh and great at attack when Api had done all the hard work in the first 25 mins.

If he doesn't go to jail, he has a lot of D practice to do.

 

[Technical Coach]

Absolute rubbish. Faniu has a cracking passing game, footy smarts, and is not soft in defence, don't know where you get that from. You think a hooker is good if he can pass a nice long face ball, just like you were a fan of Levi's passing. Unfortunately, just cause you can throw a nice spiral doesn't mean **** if you have no footy smarts. Faniu is a rare talent, he will be a star no doubt.when he played, opposition just held off him, he runs with the ball out in front and is a very good ball player. Knows when to run, when to pass, engages the defence, has an off load, tackle break, good support play and was only in his second year. Imagine what he will be like in a few more

I'm not saying a player who has a crisp lateral pass is the be all and end all, but i would rather a player who can pass and defend than someone who can skirt around, engage a little but can't tackle and fatigues very fast during intense moments of play in defence.

There is a lack of leadership and toughness in this squad as it is, we need a Ballin like hard working hooker for now and focus on other areas of our game and player recruitment for long term gains ---not short term fixes.

Proof is in the pudding, Api is playing in a GF. Let's be clear here i don't rate Api's passing game at all, never have---it is average also, but Hasler was quick to cast Api aside after returning from injury for a younger more flashy version that lacks substance "in my opinion"

The differene with Api is he has defensive leadership qualities, is hard working and can engage the ruck also in his own ways when fit and confident, just never felt like Hasler had him in his plans from day dot and combining that lack of confidence from the coach with a return from injury at the start of the season worked against Api.

Now we have a flashy not so hard working hooker out for 2 years with the third year probably getting used to the game again and a squad that lacks hard working types as it is.

If the game was all about attack for sure i would agree with most here, but what people don't realise is a hard working hooker takes up so much defensive workload off the forwards, sures up the middle, pressures from the inside and reduces the load on the interchange---points come indirectly from this also that don't make the individual stats.

Ballin helped Manly big time and was very under-rated, a lot of Manly's go forward in those years was laterally based around back rowers and centres, Ballins strong crisp passing helped hit the edges more efficiently.

 

[Technical Coach]

99.9% of posters on here have a differing opinion to you. Surely 99.9% of people aren’t wrong

That is why Manly are where they are this year because 99.9% of you focus on youtube highlight reels and not the overall performance levels.

Fainu has potential but not worth waiting three years for, plus he keeps being in the news for all the wrong reasons more than once now---how much more patience does a club have to endure.

 

[pjayz]

That is why Manly are where they are this year because 99.9% of you focus on youtube highlight reels and not the overall performance levels.

Fainu has potential but not worth waiting three years for, plus he keeps being in the news for all the wrong reasons more than once now---how much more patience does a club have to endure.

So 99.99% of people are YouTube watchers which is why Manly are where they are ... umm yeah that makes sense. You’re the Technical coach? Seriously mate, take a step down from that high horse.

 

[Simonmyers11]

I'm not saying a player who has a crisp lateral pass is the be all and end all, but i would rather a player who can pass and defend than someone who can skirt around, engage a little but can't tackle and fatigues very fast during intense moments of play in defence.

There is a lack of leadership and toughness in this squad as it is, we need a Ballin like hard working hooker for now and focus on other areas of our game and player recruitment for long term gains ---not short term fixes.

Proof is in the pudding, Api is playing in a GF. Let's be clear here i don't rate Api's passing game at all, never have---it is average also, but Hasler was quick to cast Api aside after returning from injury for a younger more flashy version that lacks substance "in my opinion"

The differene with Api is he has defensive leadership qualities, is hard working and can engage the ruck also in his own ways when fit and confident, just never felt like Hasler had him in his plans from day dot and combining that lack of confidence from the coach with a return from injury at the start of the season worked against Api.

Now we have a flashy not so hard working hooker out for 2 years with the third year probably getting used to the game again and a squad that lacks hard working types as it is.

If the game was all about attack for sure i would agree with most here, but what people don't realise is a hard working hooker takes up so much defensive workload off the forwards, sures up the middle, pressures from the inside and reduces the load on the interchange---points come indirectly from this also that don't make the individual stats.

Ballin helped Manly big time and was very under-rated, a lot of Manly's go forward in those years was laterally based around back rowers and centres, Ballins strong crisp passing helped hit the edges more efficiently.

Mate, I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I have being going on for ages how important the hooker is to a team, especially defensively. Levi first contact often sent him backwards 5m!

I love Api's work around the ruck, especially his leadership and work rate.

To be honest, when we had both players we had the best of both worlds. API did so much defensive work and when Faniu came on he could capitalise on tired forwards. Faniu has got skill though, you must admit, the way defence just held off him, he was very good with the ball. Yes, agree he will need to work on his D to become an elite hooker but I reckon we have a star. He is a tough player, he is not small either, he will mature into the tough work a hooker has to do. Not a picture perfect passer, but his passing is well timed and players like Tom and especially DCE play well with him. They seem to gel and we didn't have that at all this year. Anyway, good to have different opinions. Let's hope we see a better Manly side in 2021

 

[Technical Coach]

No point discussing it any further. If Fainu played this year we would have won another three or four more games. If you don’t think so, that’s fine. You exaggerate his defensive liabilities and underestimate his attack and vision. Based on your posts I don’t believe you have a grasp on the importance of the position.

"If Fainu played this year we "might" have won another 3-4 games" vs "Api at Penrith 17 games unbeaten and in a GF" i think i know which reply has more substance and fact behind it.

Now i'm not saying Api is the sole reason Penrith make the GF, but it damn well shows Manly have many other areas that need improving before focusing on a hooker----"maybe with Api playing Manly might not have leaked points as easily and won a few games also"

 

[Technical Coach]

Mate, I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I have being going on for ages how important the hooker is to a team, especially defensively. Levi first contact often sent him backwards 5m!

I love Api's work around the ruck, especially his leadership and work rate.

To be honest, when we had both players we had the best of both worlds. API did so much defensive work and when Faniu came on he could capitalise on tired forwards. Faniu has got skill though, you must admit, the way defence just held off him, he was very good with the ball. Yes, agree he will need to work on his D to become an elite hooker but I reckon we have a star. He is a tough player, he is not small either, he will mature into the tough work a hooker has to do. Not a picture perfect passer, but his passing is well timed and players like Tom and especially DCE play well with him. They seem to gel and we didn't have that at all this year. Anyway, good to have different opinions. Let's hope we see a better Manly side in 2021

Levi was always a stop gap player but at least he tried to make first up contact in defence---even though he fatigued way too fast also. For a first year player he was fitting in fine, Manly were performing ok the first month or so with a reasonably full squad and there were instances of nice lateral play off his passing.

For a player late to the club at a bargain price i thought he was doing fine, yes Levi has some annoying limitations and wrong options in him attacking wise but Manly had so many injuries and other areas lacking in our game Levi was made a scapegoat.

Manly is not a club full of money, it has to be used wisely more than most clubs.

 

[pjayz]

"If Fainu played this year we "might" have won another 3-4 games" vs "Api at Penrith 17 games unbeaten and in a GF" i think i know which reply has more substance and fact behind it.

Now i'm not saying Api is the sole reason Penrith make the GF, but it damn well shows Manly have many other areas that need improving before focusing on a hooker----"maybe with Api playing Manly might not have leaked points as easily and won a few games also"

Of course Api would have made a difference to us over Levi. That says nothing about what Fainu might have achieved if he was playing.

Penrith’s team across the park and distinct lack of injuries probably played a role in Penrith’s 17 straight wins wouldn’t you say?

 

[Technical Coach]

Of course Api would have made a difference to us over Levi. That says nothing about what Fainu might have achieved if he was playing.

Penrith’s team across the park and distinct lack of injuries probably played a role in Penrith’s 17 straight wins wouldn’t you say?

Penrith are a hard working no fuss team that play the percentages well and squeeze the opposition, means they have a lot of players with a damn good hard working attitude.

I'm sure there have been many teams over the years with low injury tolls who have not come close to 17 games unbeaten, along with teams with more Rep level players in their squad not being able to achieve that.

A few hard nosed hungry country boys never hurts also.