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Red Pill

Enthusiastic Amateur
Should the hard choices not be done with I out from those impacted?
I actually agree there should be a voice so the Aboriginals can provide input on Aboriginal affairs (only) however I am unsure about the practicality as the indigenous community is made up of traditionally over 150 different languages and tribes unlike NZ where there is 2 traditional languages . This needs to be addressed before it can be taken more seriously imo. This is not what this lobby is likely about it’s possibly more about about accessing land and obtaining power and money this needs to be clearly clarified whether it is right or wrong…I believe this simple gesture of saying we need a voice and it will just about fix everything is somewhat very simplistic and tokenism, once you really think about it….it’s hard to take seriously at this embryonic stage unless you are swept up in the euphoria of the ideology..it appears it could be a Trojan horse for something else….
 

Red Pill

Enthusiastic Amateur
Once you’ve lived in an indigenous community you get a whole new understanding of what’s really needed.

More voices , wanting more say and more money just isn’t the solution.

A shift away from “ money for nothing “ and a move to proper employment/ education is where it’s gotta start.

And fix the alcohol / pedophilia issues.

We don’t need a voice , we need action from a government not frightened about votes.
You are right mate. Oddly enough there are Aboriginal people ( which is supposedly the point of all this that agree 100% with you) an example is Jacinta Price who is an elected senator in NT.
There is such a diversity within Aboriginal voices at the moment on what should be done that makes the idea of having some unified voice redundant before it starts. This voice is simply romantic tokenism and likely a trogan horse for something else….
 

Mark from Brisbane

“ Boomer still Booming”
Premium Member
Tipping Member
If we are not listening @Mark from Brisbane we will never find workable solutions. What have right now simply isn't working. Obviously, the entire system of distribution and management of funding and resources to indigenous communities requires substantial change. Yes, action is required to achieve that. No argument from me on most of the points that you make.

However, where I disagree with you is that I believe significant change can only come from within those communities. If we are not listening to the communities properly, how do you see that change ever happening? I am sure you agree with me that what we have right now simply isn't working, and never will?
I agree with you that the system isn’t working , but “ the voice “ won’t be the people in the remote communities with the issues it’ll be radicals / do gooders who will just **** it up in a different way to the way it’s being ****ed up now.

There’s loads of “ voices “ being heard , but I’ll use Alice Springs currently as an example that the voices who mean the most , don’t get a say.
 

Woodsie

Feast yer eyes ..
Tipping Member

FULL LIST: Record number of Indigenous MPs voted in to serve the Australian people​

Tom Zaunmayr - July 23, 2022
FULL LIST: Record number of Indigenous MPs voted in to serve the Australian people

NEWS

The Australian people have voted in nine new Indigenous representatives in Federal parliament for the next term, alongside two sitting senators. Six members are part of the Labor government, while two are returning senators sitting for the Greens.

For the Liberals it is a case of two in, one out, with Ken Wyatt losing his seat as Jacinta Price gains a Senate spot.

The result means an extra four Indigenous voices in parliament between both chambers - three in the House of Representatives and eight in the Senate.

In terms of representation, Indigenous members will account for 10.5 per cent of the 76 Senate seats, and 1.9 per cent of 151 House of Representatives seats.

That leaves total representation at 4.8 per cent, above the Indigenous Australian population of 3.3 per cent.

In the ruling Labor party Indigenous members make up 12 and 3.9 per cent of the Senate and House of Reps respectively, with a total party representation of 5.9 per cent.

The Liberal-National coalition has no Indigenous members in the House of Reps and two in the Senate, for a total figure of 1.5 per cent.
 

manlyfan76

There is no A.I. Just better computers
So nobody is really against an advisory voice that has no law making power.

Everyone agrees we need to do better.

Almost nobody on here speaks from the view of indigenous Aussies, but "know" what's best without having seen whatever that is work.

Ok then.
 

manlyfan76

There is no A.I. Just better computers
I agree with you that the system isn’t working , but “ the voice “ won’t be the people in the remote communities with the issues it’ll be radicals / do gooders who will just **** it up in a different way to the way it’s being ****ed up now.

There’s loads of “ voices “ being heard , but I’ll use Alice Springs currently as an example that the voices who mean the most , don’t get a say.
Maybe because scomo burried the letter from the heart.
 

Red Pill

Enthusiastic Amateur
Almost nobody on here speaks from the view of indigenous Aussies, but "know" what's best without having seen whatever that is work.
Mate,
Do you believe that there is a collective Indigenous voice available to do this? I mean that can properly represent all Indigenous Australians?

There is a post above that illustrates there are currently 9 elected representatives of Aboriginal heritage.. they ( indigenous Australians) are represented proportionally to population more so than most other groups as also pointed out..
 

Woodsie

Feast yer eyes ..
Tipping Member
Mate,
Do you believe that there is a collective Indigenous voice available to do this? I mean that can properly represent all Indigenous Australians?

There is a post above that illustrates there are currently 9 elected representatives of Aboriginal heritage.. they ( indigenous Australians) are represented proportionally to population more so than most other groups as also pointed out..

Can you imagine the vastly different "messages" of the voice if given by Lydia as opposed to being given by Jacinta.

I am prepared to bet sheep stations to old shoes ... that within 6 months the voice becomes just an adversarial lobby group of agendas.
 

manly al

First Grader
Just to be better informed by anyone with a better idea of constitutional and referenda matters , apparently for any referenda to be successful, has to have 2 / 3 " s of the states in favor , 2 / 3 ' s of the vote . just wondering if that is the composite national vote or for individual states ? . 6 states and two territories . presumedly would need 5 states or territories in favor again would be interesting if it also requires 2 / 3 "s of the combined national vote or in individual states to get a proposal over the line . Always a major problem with more remote communities of any ethnic group and employment opportunities for instances . Hardly would see somewhere like Alice Springs or similar located type places having that many employment opportunities , so the problem is compounded then . Some of those communities are not that far removed from even being more isolated from mainstream Australia or general society and in past times and is a bit of a generational thing assimilating or wishing to and a genuine opportunity to break some harmful cycles . Getting some basic law and order into the mix has to be a obvious priority but also the more tolerant and practical measures as well . Be a shame if a proposal that previously was being advocated or encouraged on all sides of the political fence is then not seen on its possible benefits or merit and is mainly just opposed on ideology grounds or political opportunism . .
 

Red Pill

Enthusiastic Amateur
Can you imagine the vastly different "messages" of the voice if given by Lydia as opposed to being given by Jacinta.

I am prepared to bet sheep stations to old shoes ... that within 6 months the voice becomes just an adversarial lobby group of agendas.
100% agree. Lydia is dangerous for both Indigenous and Non indigenous Australians.
Yep any lobby based upon resentment as it’s main driver only knows to be adversarial and nothing else… scary stuff. Thank goodness for people like Jacinta…
 

Woodsie

Feast yer eyes ..
Tipping Member
100% agree. Lydia is dangerous for both Indigenous and Non indigenous Australians.
Yep any lobby based upon resentment as it’s main driver only knows to be adversarial and nothing else… scary stuff. Thank goodness for people like Jacinta…

Do you know how people will get a seat on the voice ..?

Selected or elected ... and by whom ... does the government of the day nominate its representatives...

This is a very important part of the proposal for mine ... will it just become a political football .
 

Red Pill

Enthusiastic Amateur
Do you know how people will get a seat on the voice ..?

Selected or elected ... and by whom ... does the government of the day nominate its representatives...

This is a very important part of the proposal for mine ... will it just become a political football .
Agree mate. One thing I do know is that there will be lots of bickering amongst the Aboriginal groups and cries of miss-justice left, right and centre if this somehow gets up…

Too much water has gone under the bridge to come up with a magical fix all solution especially with Lazy legacy seeking policies at the expense of practical consideration..
 

Seagles68

Bencher
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Agree mate. One thing I do know is that there will be lots of bickering amongst the Aboriginal groups and cries of miss-justice left, right and centre if this somehow gets up…

Too much water has gone under the bridge to come up with a magical fix all solution especially with Lazy legacy seeking policies at the expense of practical consideration..
Do you mean like the bickering that goes on across the country after every Federal election? The bickering argument seems a bit of a furphy.
 

Red Pill

Enthusiastic Amateur
As an aboriginal Australian I’ve really learnt so much from all your comments. thanks for coming up with all the solutions to our problems. dogs
Please also share your proposed solution.. Btw, Apologies if you did not like my opinions that I shared. They are are just opinions at the end of the day…something we are all entitled too.. no need to be calling people dogs mate again for sharing an opinion…. Looking forward to learning something from you?
 
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Red Pill

Enthusiastic Amateur
Do you mean like the bickering that goes on across the country after every Federal election? The bickering argument seems a bit of a furphy.
Fair point… but the debate is about having a united indigenous voice. Are you suggesting in order to achieve this we will need to hold indigenous elections?
 

Seagles68

Bencher
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Fair point… but the debate is about having a united indigenous voice. Are you suggesting in order to achieve this we will need to hold indigenous elections?
Of course not and I think you know that's not what I'm suggesting. Clearly, there will never be a unanimous support for whatever is proposed. Just like there is never unanimous support from the rest of the country when there is a general election. But we don't then say - well, I'm Catholic and I think we should have another election just for us. I think if people just don't like the idea of indigenous people being acknowledged in the Constitution and that an advisory body will be established that can make representations directly to Parliament specifically on indigenous issues (to be worked out in consultation with the whole Parliament if the referendum is successful) - then they should just say that and move on. I'd rather hear them say something like - "they don't deserve any special treatment coz I don't get any" or "so we took over the country, that was so long ago and I had nothing to do with it and so they just need to get over it" (as I've had people say to me) then just say it. As much as I disagree with that sentiment, at least it would be honest. Throwing things out there like - oh dear, there'll be too much bickering, just seems disingenuous. And no, I don't think everyone feels like the two examples I just gave and that they genuinely just want to know what's going on. But from what I've read and heard, it's seems like a pretty simple proposition 1) a referendum to vote on a principle 2) a process developed to establish the advisory group in consultation with the Parliament. Now I know that there are better people out there to explain it better but that's my reading of it. It is impossible at this point to answer questions about how and who coz that's not what is written into the Constitution. The main focus (in my mind) is and should be on whether we support the basic principle. Then the Parliament works out the howz and whoz. And for better or worse, that's all I got!
 
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