Happy Australia Day

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Terry Zarsoff

First Grader
Boat people? I thought the first fleet (1788) were convicts brought here against their will? Aka prisoners mainly for petty economic crimes. Many of these people were taken from their children..and families.
The fact that history is being distorted like this to serve this narrative is why this struggle is only going to end in conflict and further resentment…. This nonsense isn’t going to help anybody at the end of the day especially not the aboriginals..
You don’t ‘do irony’ do you?

Enjoy your weekend and gamble responsibly.
 

StuBoot

Bencher
Ahh once again the wisest of words from a true gentleman. Of course you realise @Mark from Brisbane that us white, male over 50's are responsible for all the world's problems don't you. I just don't get it and never will , why we keep wanting to make people alive today apologise for the sins of Governments of centuries past. I suppose it's the woke, virtue signalling world we live in now.
Yep @mickqld, I find it strange ( and a bit insulting ) that ancient decisions and beliefs of Governments' of the "new world" are continually brought to the fore as if we can change it.
Or that by living our lives as we do that we condone them.

We do acknowledge the sins of the past no matter if they were intentional or misguided and we've learnt from them but as an over 50 male I'm dismayed as to the dismantling of Australia Day.
How can pubs and businesses be so scared of the day as to now sit on the fence for fear of recriminations.

It's ironic that we raise our kids to stand up for what you believe in, be proud of who you are, don't be bullied yet now it seems as nation we are bowing down to an agitated minority whom I'm willing to bet don't really care about the core issue but want to join in because they can somewhat anonymously.

As @Mark from Brisbane and others have stated, will changing the date make much difference?
Really, does changing the date wipe away the wrongs of the past?

In my opinion it's going to be years before anyone - black, white, yellow or pink - will agree on a new date and by then it just may be too late.
How will we agree on a new date, by referendum?
The minority that don't vote will still agitate won't they?
 

Red Pill

Enthusiastic Amateur
The people that are deadset on stopping the boats wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the boats. It's not particularly complicated.
i don’t get that because it still does not make sense. I mean to retrospectively look back at history through a modern day political / ideological lens… for the sake of irony which imo doesn’t even exist mate… if you go further back in history you say something really silly! like the aboriginals were not the fist settlers in history….
 

Will on the hill

Bencher
Tipping Member
Thanks Mate. Same to you my

i don’t get that because it still does not make sense. I mean to retrospectively look back at history through a modern day political / ideological lens… for the sake of irony which imo doesn’t even exist mate… if you go further back in history you say something really silly! like the aboriginals were not the fist settlers in history….

not through a political lens mate. btw, are you Roy or HG? Trust you will get the irony? :)
I hear you, I cringed when I typed irony but I still pressed enter and that's on me. It's a farked up situation that can never be made right. We can only hope to meet somewhere in the middle.
 

lsz

First Grader
Staff member
As a non indigenous person I do not feel like I am qualified to say that what is the big deal with the date.

If only there was a way to get their view on items like this is?
 

Brookie Bob

"I come back to you now at the turn of the tide"
Yep @mickqld, I find it strange ( and a bit insulting ) that ancient decisions and beliefs of Governments' of the "new world" are continually brought to the fore as if we can change it.
Or that by living our lives as we do that we condone them.

We do acknowledge the sins of the past no matter if they were intentional or misguided and we've learnt from them but as an over 50 male I'm dismayed as to the dismantling of Australia Day.
How can pubs and businesses be so scared of the day as to now sit on the fence for fear of recriminations.

It's ironic that we raise our kids to stand up for what you believe in, be proud of who you are, don't be bullied yet now it seems as nation we are bowing down to an agitated minority whom I'm willing to bet don't really care about the core issue but want to join in because they can somewhat anonymously.

As @Mark from Brisbane and others have stated, will changing the date make much difference?
Really, does changing the date wipe away the wrongs of the past?

In my opinion it's going to be years before anyone - black, white, yellow or pink - will agree on a new date and by then it just may be too late.
How will we agree on a new date, by referendum?
The minority that don't vote will still agitate won't they?
There appears to be no statute of limitations on current popular grievances. Yes, I understand that some will say that current suffering is the result of past actions - even actions 200+ years ago.

I am concerned that if you hitch your wagon to that particular star, you may feel that it gives you the right to all sorts of current day ratbaggery with no self-responsibility or self-control. 'My socialization (forced on me by YOUR ancestors) has made me the way that I am - nothing I do is really my fault. It's the fault of .............'

I'm hopeful that modern day Australia is a place where the old feuds have died; no more Serbs vs Croats, Greeks vs Turks, Palestinians vs Jews, etc. I thought that was going well here - for the most part.

I'm motivated to action. So I'm happy to say sorry.

On behalf of me - I'm sorry if my dirt poor Scottish / Irish immigrant ancestors in Australia mistreated any Indigenous person at all, at any time. Not acceptable then, not acceptable now. My Indigenous sister-in-law has forgiven me though - she says, 'you had nothing to do with it - don't be silly'. Phew.

On behalf of my English ancestors - I'm sorry if they seriously mistreated my Scottish / Irish ancestors; with particular thoughts towards Cromwell's massacres in Ireland and the massacres after the battle of Culloden and the subsequent Highland clearances.

On behalf of my Norman French ancestors - I'm sorry for the barbarity towards my Anglo-Saxon ancestors and the invasion in 1066, and the subjugation of an entire country.

On behalf of my Anglo-Saxon ancestors - I'm sorry to my ancestors the Britons who lived in the land, and were almost completely wiped out by our invasion.

On behalf of my German ancestors, I'm sorry for just about everything.........

On behalf of my French ancestors, I'm sorry for Napoleon subsequently invading most of Europe (including many of my other ancestors), for Devil's Island, and for the barbarity in Haiti.

On behalf of my Spanish ancestors, I'm sorry for plundering most of the Americas, and enslaving almost everyone there.

On behalf of my Portuguese ancestors, I'm sorry for the trans-Atlantic slave trade and the enslavement of native peoples in the Amazon.

On behalf of my Swedish ancestors, I'm sorry for our part in the Treaty of Westphalia, and for inflicting canned rotten fish on the world. And, as Vikings - sorry to the Anglo Saxon ancestors.

On behalf of my Ukrainian ancestors, I'm sorry that we didn't choose our 'friends' more carefully in the past. Can I make it up to you with a good Chicken Kiev?

 

winnyason

Bencher
Honestly Lidia Muppet and her woke invasion crew I ask the question as a convict blood of English stock, I doubt ancestor was happy to be shipped halfway across the world ?
It's seems it must be only the aboriginal that are hurt bit my dad side convict was sent across and left behind 4 children and wife had to start again, why is only the black man who feels hard done by.
 

Budgie

In for the long haul.
2016 Tipping Competitor
Tipping Member
Honestly Lidia Muppet and her woke invasion crew I ask the question as a convict blood of English stock, I doubt ancestor was happy to be shipped halfway across the world ?
It's seems it must be only the aboriginal that are hurt bit my dad side convict was sent across and left behind 4 children and wife had to start again, why is only the black man who feels hard done by.
Hence it is a rubbish day. For all. The conditions on the First Fleet were hideous. They arrived at a place where there was absolutely nothing. The women were kept on the ships for two weeks while the men were sent out to work building lodgings that fell down with the first big wind. Once the two weeks was up, the women were released as reward for the men's hard work and a night of mass rape ensued. The second fleet was meant to bring much needed supplies but they barely made it and with mass casualties. The entire colony almost starved while waiting for the third fleet to arrive with supplies.
So it is hardly a time to be celebrated by anyone.
Read your history kiddos.
The Fatal Shore by Robert Hughes is still one of the best and most accessible places to start.
 

winnyason

Bencher
Hence it is a rubbish day. For all. The conditions on the First Fleet were hideous. They arrived at a place where there was absolutely nothing. The women were kept on the ships for two weeks while the men were sent out to work building lodgings that fell down with the first big wind. Once the two weeks was up, the women were released as reward for the men's hard work and a night of mass rape ensued. The second fleet was meant to bring much needed supplies but they barely made it and with mass casualties. The entire colony almost starved while waiting for the third fleet to arrive with supplies.
So it is hardly a time to be celebrated by anyone.
Read your history kiddos.
The Fatal Shore by Robert Hughes is still one of the best and most accessible places to start.
Yeap once alot of us English/Welsh background do ancestry they where pretty sad events. We are living for the huge sacrifices of those men and woman who simply had no choice.
It's a **** day indigenous lost there land and well alot of English convicts where shipped to another land. When you look at the circumstances we need to work it out.
 
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Red Pill

Enthusiastic Amateur
Hence it is a rubbish day. For all.
Appears to be a very presumptuous comment. Definitely not one that allows for multiple points of view. You certainly don’t speak for me.
Most people I know are proud to be Australian allowing for our not so pretty and harsh beginnings which this day represents. A reminder out of adversity comes opportunity which is really the backbone of the country we have today…..
 

BOZO

Journey Man
Tipping Member
Regardless of the date , or what it means , it’s fair that we celebrate our nation , all of us.

Just like every nation in the world does , St Patrick’s Day , Bastille Day to name a couple.

Just one single day , is that possible ???

It is never possible to have peace anywhere because there will always be both

Peace Makers and Peace Breakers
 

lsz

First Grader
Staff member
If you wondered the theory behind the voice take this thread as an example

A bunch (and a guess here) of mainly white blokes discussing how people feel about a date change…with no indigenous representation
 

Woodsie

Feast yer eyes ..
Tipping Member
If you wondered the theory behind the voice take this thread as an example

A bunch (and a guess here) of mainly white blokes discussing how people feel about a date change…with no indigenous representation

I find your faith that a voice will be representative of all the indigenous people amusing ... who will be the representatives on the voice, how will they be selected/elected ?

Will it be Warren Mundine or Anthony mundine ... Will it be Lydia Thorpe or Jacinta Price ?

And of course there will be no agendas at play ...
 

BOZO

Journey Man
Tipping Member
If you wondered the theory behind the voice take this thread as an example

A bunch (and a guess here) of mainly white blokes discussing how people feel about a date change…with no indigenous representation
I have Wog friends , Gay friends , Left wing friends , Right wing friends , Manly feathered friends
and Indigenous friends

and the Indigenous friends I have and spend Australia day and any other day with have embraced 26th January Australia day celebrations and happily celebrate with all of us proud Australians

Just my experience
But offcourse we will always have other perspectives from other people

The moral of the story.....
You can never please every one
Not even in your own family
 
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Red Pill

Enthusiastic Amateur
I guess we could have a whole thread on the voice ( not in the footy section of course)
Interesting thing is even if we went in this direction…. having a cohesive voice and adequately representing indigenous Australia would be more challenging than people realise. The Aboriginal community is made up of hundreds of tribes and there is as much division within the Aboriginal peoples as with this forum ( seriously) people will say it works in NZ but there are only 2 main Māori languages, thus nowhere the same amount of diversity as we have here in Australia.. Not all are happy with how it is currently working either.
Its one thing to come up with a nice idealistic idea with good intentions it is another thing to implement it without making the situation you were trying to fix…worse… I think we need to look at this deeper and the above is only one of quite a few good arguments to do so…
 
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