Happy Australia Day

[manlyfan76]

If you’ve never lived it , and only read about it , then really you have no ****ing idea ( you as in plural not you personally ).

Back in the 1990's I lived in a community that had apartheid in the N.T.
Indigenous people were not allowed into the business' and had to wait outside. Not at the door but back from the door and got served when the staff were ready.

Appalling stuff. I was only 18 and not from there so never felt comfortable to question it.
I honestly believe that having an advisory voice to parliament will help to change the thinking of all involved. As you point out Mark most don't see the lived experience, I have only seen a bit and heard stories from conversations I've had. I think you come across as too hung up on the money side. You can't compare past losses to future gains.

 

[Eagles4Life]

"The Voice is in danger of being drowned out by noise – even before the details are decided"

I don't believe many of us posting on this topic (on either side of the equation) have had access to enough information to argue its merits/pitfalls either way. This is a failure of the Albanese Government, but its also clearly a failure of the protagonists here, to do any real research, before making up their minds.

Perhaps we should wait for the information campaign to actually begin, before teeing off with preconceived agendas and prejudices to something we have so little information about.

The Voice is being drowned out by noise

If you've been paying attention to the Voice campaign, the complexities and divisions would not seem to augur particularly well for the quality of the national debate in the months ahead, writes Laura Tingle.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Red Pill]

Well here's one:
A insignificant substrata of our population who are out there screaming to change the day etc…


No surprise, from the person who supports Mr "Very fine people on both sides".

It’s the caped numb nuts flying in on his broom stick to save the day…
I am referring to mainly the do gooder Anglo’s marching in the streets.. If this is racism I am guilty as charged.

Trust you to use your dodgy paralegal skills ( yes someone told me you were a formerly a paralegal secretary in your working life… here you go again misframing facts like usual…

 

[manlyfan76]

 

[manlyfan76]

Final Report | Indigenous Voice

voice.niaa.gov.au

 

[Eagles4Life]

"Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people have consistently called for self-determination, rather than symbolism, to make a real difference to their lives. Constitutional recognition through a Voice will give Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people agency to help inform decisions that impact their lives.

Current policy-making does not have a systematic process for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders to provide advice, meaning that policy is often made for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people rather than with them.

Constitutional recognition through a Voice would enable Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people to give advice to the Federal Parliament about laws and policies that impact them through a simplified policy making process and structural change.

This means that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders are included in the law-making process, rather than having bureaucrats and politicians deciding what is best for them.

Constitutional recognition through a Voice will deliver real and practical advice to Parliament and the Government on how laws and policies can best improve the lives of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people.

When Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people who know and understand the best way to deliver real and practical change in their communities have a say through a Voice, we will finally be able to close the gap that still exists between Indigenous and Non-Indigenous Australians. This is why it is so important."

Yes23

Recognition, listening and better results. Vote Yes on October 14.

fromtheheart.com.au

 

[Eagles4Life]

Question for @Red Pill et al
Why is Australia the only First-World nation with a colonial history that doesn't provide constitutional recognition for its First Nations people? Paraphrased from statement by Linda Burnley 2019

Fact Checked below

We fact checked Linda Burney's claim on constitutional recognition. Here's what we found

Opposition spokeswoman for Indigenous Australians Linda Burney says the Australian constitution is the only one among first world nations with colonial histories that does not recognise its first people. RMIT ABC Fact Check investigates.

www.abc.net.au

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

It’s the caped numb nuts flying in on his broom stick to save the day…
I am referring to mainly the do gooder Anglo’s marching in the streets.. If this is racism I am guilty as charged.

Trust you to use your dodgy paralegal skills ( yes someone told me you were a formerly a paralegal secretary in your working life… here you go again misframing facts like usual…

This is your retort? You call me a caped numbnut? hahaha aren't you the fellow who said less than an hour ago it wouldn't take much to run rings around someone intellectually?

You couldn’t lie straight in bed! You called me a liar for saying you supported anti-vaxxers so I reminded you by posting the exact place where you expressed your support in no uncertain terms. Did I get an apology? Nope, crickets.

I asked you a few weeks ago if you thought there were very fine people on both sides and you dodged the issue. It was a fair question given your recent stated support of Donald Trump.

As nearly everyone knows, a "Unite the Right" rally was held on 11 and 12 Aug 2017 in Charlottesville, Virginia, USA - where white nationalists protested the city’s decision to remove a statue of Robert E Lee, who had led the Confederate Army in the Civil War in defence of states rights to maintain slavery.

Rally participants chanted anti-Semitic, Nazi-associated phrases and clashed with counterprotesters.

Trump was even criticised for his “very fine people on both sides” comment by many Republicans, for failing to offer an unqualified condemnation of white supremacists and suggesting both sides were equal.

Just by coincidence, in our recent discussions whenever I’ve raised neo-Nazis and fascists you’ve consistently responded with the line that both sides are just as bad.

You’re either a closet white supremacist or someone who is too timid to make a choice. If the latter was the case no problem, but it would then beg the question – if you aren’t ready to take a side, why do you type 1000s of words here putting your views?

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Respect your experience Mark and would never consider you racist.
For me, I think some of the people who oppose the voice think it will be filled with what you call radicals and do gooders. There are some brilliant indigenous people who are way more qualified in their fields than any of us are. There are incredible thinkers doing remarkable things, people ensuring, for example that indigenous folk are getting training as doctors and psychiatrists and teachers in really solid programs so they can go back into their communities and help the myriad of problems.
Years ago, when I used to write about Rugby, I had many a long evening chatting to Lloyd McDermott, Wallaby and the first indigenous barrister. He could, obviously, run rings around me intellectually and his insight into indigenous communities really opened my eyes.
People keep quoting the radicals of the community but I suspect the statement from the heart came from such a good place that the real thinkers and leaders of their communities would be the people they'd like to represent them. There are a great many indigenous minds who could blow the rest of us out of the water. I can't see why giving them a voice (which will never be compulsory for any legislation) about their own communities can ever be a problem.

Agree there’s some outstanding indigenous citizens, but I reckon ( would hope ) they are already being heard.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

can you try to be honest for 5 minutes? You said this:

A insignificant substrata of our population who are out there screaming to change the day etc…

and now you explain it by saying this:

I am referring to mainly the do gooder Anglo’s marching in the streets..

In other words you totally discount the views of all the actual First Nations people who are protesting or putting on record their desire to change the day? And then you ask in all seriousness and indignation,'where is the racism here?'

 

[The '47ers]

No money for nothing

No chicks for free

 

[Red Pill]

This is your retort? You call me a caped numbnut? hahaha aren't you the fellow who said less than an hour ago it wouldn't take much to run rings around someone intellectually?

You couldn’t lie straight in bed! You called me a liar for saying you supported anti-vaxxers so I reminded you by posting the exact place where you expressed your support in no uncertain terms. Did I get an apology? Nope, crickets.

I asked you a few weeks ago if you thought there were very fine people on both sides and you dodged the issue. It was a fair question given your recent stated support of Donald Trump.

As nearly everyone knows, a "Unite the Right" rally was held on 11 and 12 Aug 2017 in Charlottesville, Virginia, USA - where white nationalists protested the city’s decision to remove a statue of Robert E Lee, who had led the Confederate Army in the Civil War in defence of states rights to maintain slavery.

Rally participants chanted anti-Semitic, Nazi-associated phrases and clashed with counterprotesters.

Trump was even criticised for his “very fine people on both sides” comment by many Republicans, for failing to offer an unqualified condemnation of white supremacists and suggesting both sides were equal.

Just by coincidence, in our recent discussions whenever I’ve raised neo-Nazis and fascists you’ve consistently responded with the line that both sides are just as bad.

You’re either a closet white supremacist or someone who is too timid to make a choice. If the latter was the case no problem, but it would then beg the question – if you aren’t ready to take a side, why do you type 1000s of words here putting your views?

Hey I should be calling you a lot worse.. I suggest you ignore me again as I will treat you with 100% contempt if you direct your nonsense my way again.Soon you will be accusing me of being a pedo or something like that! I have zero respect for you now I have seen how far you will go to win an argument ( which is not even the point) you are prepared to make stuff up. It goes to show when it comes down to it you are no where near as smart as you would like others to think.

 

[Captain Moondog]

You should not need a pick up , a desirable gent like your self

Dorothy wasn't impressed with my apolitical tendencies. She left with Mao, I've No Regrets.

 

[The '47ers]

Well my telephone was ringing
And they told me it was chairman Mao…

 

[Red Pill]

can you try to be honest for 5 minutes? You said this:

and now you explain it by saying this:

In other words you totally discount the views of all the actual First Nations people who are protesting or putting on record their desire to change the day? And then you ask in all seriousness and indignation,'where is the racism here?'

Just because I disagree with you or anyone else does not make me racist. The sad thing is I know you know this however you will do anything to win an argument or knock down an alternative view.
I suspect this forum means more to you than it does to me. If you want to be a dope and continue this BS it will hurt you more than I…

 

[Red Pill]

Question for @Red Pill et al
Why is Australia the only First-World nation with a colonial history that doesn't provide constitutional recognition for its First Nations people? Paraphrased from statement by Linda Burnley 2019

Fact Checked below

We fact checked Linda Burney's claim on constitutional recognition. Here's what we found

Opposition spokeswoman for Indigenous Australians Linda Burney says the Australian constitution is the only one among first world nations with colonial histories that does not recognise its first people. RMIT ABC Fact Check investigates.

www.abc.net.au

there is no problem in concept. just need to understand what it entails and if it will have any impact on other Australians mate… we also need to understand how it will be applied… most of the discussion on this is inflamed by the ambiguity..

 

[Captain Moondog]

most of the discussion on this is inflamed by the ambiguity..

Not to mention the Clearlight and the Californian Sunshine.

 

[Woodsie]

This is your retort? You call me a caped numbnut? hahaha aren't you the fellow who said less than an hour ago it wouldn't take much to run rings around someone intellectually?

You couldn’t lie straight in bed! You called me a liar for saying you supported anti-vaxxers so I reminded you by posting the exact place where you expressed your support in no uncertain terms. Did I get an apology? Nope, crickets.

I asked you a few weeks ago if you thought there were very fine people on both sides and you dodged the issue. It was a fair question given your recent stated support of Donald Trump.

As nearly everyone knows, a "Unite the Right" rally was held on 11 and 12 Aug 2017 in Charlottesville, Virginia, USA - where white nationalists protested the city’s decision to remove a statue of Robert E Lee, who had led the Confederate Army in the Civil War in defence of states rights to maintain slavery.

Rally participants chanted anti-Semitic, Nazi-associated phrases and clashed with counterprotesters.

Trump was even criticised for his “very fine people on both sides” comment by many Republicans, for failing to offer an unqualified condemnation of white supremacists and suggesting both sides were equal.

Just by coincidence, in our recent discussions whenever I’ve raised neo-Nazis and fascists you’ve consistently responded with the line that both sides are just as bad.

You’re either a closet white supremacist or someone who is too timid to make a choice. If the latter was the case no problem, but it would then beg the question – if you aren’t ready to take a side, why do you type 1000s of words here putting your views?

You have seriously lost the plot SER8 .... that is the ravings of a disturbed mind ..

 

[Seagles68]

Geez folks - this thread took a dramatic turn since I ducked out for some ...... life. I didn't think anything I said was particularly controversial. It's just my view (for the reasons noted) that a so called indigenous voice for indigenous issues is something I support. I don't try to be rude, I don't pretend to know better than indigenous people and I don't pretend to know what life is like in an indigenous community. Certainly regional communities. I also have indigenous friends but I don't feel that makes me an expert on the concerns they may or may not have. And I certainly don't think one indigenous issue is the same for all. I also don't believe that I'm a do gooder because I feel the way I do about First Nations people ........ of any country. Pick a country where First Nations people have been colonised and you will see similar issues to our own country. Can this be a coincidence?? I'm not suggesting for a second that the "Voice" will guarantee a remedy to anything in these communities. And I agree @Mark from Brisbane that radical voices (and I'm thinking the 2 people mentioned by someone - Price and Thorpe who are at either end of the spectrum) will get anyone anywhere. This country predictably functions from the so called centre and I wouldn't see the Voice as anything different. I wouldn't call Noel Pearson (a go to man for Tony Abbott during his PMship and Marcia Langton (just to mention two indigenous .... academics?) as radicals. But I'm thinking maybe I should just write my views on our footy team. Take it easy all.

 

[Captain Moondog]

Back in the 1990's I lived in a community that had apartheid in the N.T.
Indigenous people were not allowed into the business' and had to wait outside. Not at the door but back from the door and got served when the staff were ready.

Appalling stuff. I was only 18 and not from there so never felt comfortable to question it.
I honestly believe that having an advisory voice to parliament will help to change the thinking of all involved. As you point out Mark most don't see the lived experience, I have only seen a bit and heard stories from conversations I've had. I think you come across as too hung up on the money side. You can't compare past losses to future gains.

I was in Cape Town in 1969 when black people got in the back of the bus and whites got in the front, you couldn't use the same ****house and black men in fez's called you sir at the restaurant when you were 13 years old. I couldn't wait to get out of the place.