Happy Australia Day

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SeaEagleRock8

Sea Eagle Lach
Premium Member
Tipping Member
To add to my above points the answer is yes there is a choice, but in reality choices like this are not always binary.. I would suggest that the choice imposed upon the players was unnecessarily uncomfortable for them to say yes.. thus in a sense , no choice…..
So you give them no credit for their principled stance? They had no choice you say?
 

Mark from Brisbane

“ Boomer still Booming”
Premium Member
Tipping Member
I think age plays a very big factor in your views as well , those 60 and above on here were brought up in a very different era , but is that right and what’s happening with how kids are raised today now wrong ???

I also believe that the kids of today , to a certain extent , are either brainwashed or very influenced by what their being taught or what they read on Tik Tok or Instagram , whereas most of my views come from life experiences.

I rarely try and engage someone who is 20 in an argument for that very reason.

It doesn’t make them wrong , but it also does make me wrong because I’m older either.

And really I mainly comment on issues where I have life experiences.

Issues at heart with me is certainly Australia Day / Indigenous affairs and of course religion.

I would almost never argue about politics as let’s face it , if you are a Leftie no amount of arguing with change that, and if you’re in the Clive Palmer / Pauline Hanson brigade then arguing is even worse.

All I ask is that we respect each others views , and appreciate that they could be different.
 

Red Pill

Enthusiastic Amateur
So you give them no credit for their principled stance? They had no choice you say?
As I said choice is not always binary. Say if at work someone said to you that in order keep your job you needed to cheat on your partner. ( yes not a likely circumstance) I think it would be reasonable for you to conclude that you had no reasonable choice…. But to quit your job… but saying you still had a choice is technically correct but not reasonable imo and I would suggest in most peoples minds as well…
 

Brookie Bob

"I come back to you now at the turn of the tide"
No doubt.
Nevertheless the last Australian census in 2021 showed 39.6% with no religion
Catholic 20%
Anglican 9.8%
And the trend towards no religion rising fast, compared with previous censuses.
100 - 39.6 = 60.4
When I mentioned two studies suggesting 61%, I wasn't far off.
 

SeaEagleRock8

Sea Eagle Lach
Premium Member
Tipping Member
if you are a Leftie no amount of arguing with change that, and if you’re in the Clive Palmer / Pauline Hanson brigade
Haha you aren't in danger of being identified in either of those camps Mark.
However your passionate views as someone who has seen first hand life in indigenous communities does not entitle you to speak for them.
Nor, if they were to get their Voice, ought white men select who is going to represent their Voice to parliament.
(I note you said you didn't want 'radicals' well surely it would be up to them to decide what is radical and who they want to give them a voice?) :)
 

SeaEagleRock8

Sea Eagle Lach
Premium Member
Tipping Member
As I said choice is not always binary. Say if at work someone said to you that in order keep your job you needed to cheat on your partner. ( yes not a likely circumstance) I think it would be reasonable for you to conclude that you had no reasonable choice…. But to quit your job… but saying you still had a choice is technically correct but not reasonable imo and I would suggest in most peoples minds as well…
So do you say a choice is only a choice when it is a free choice, totally unemcumbered by any repercussions?
 

Brookie Bob

"I come back to you now at the turn of the tide"
My view is that in a modern society, much like the same sex marriage debate, there are outdated views.

I do not tar all religons just the outdated ones that can not see past the myth that sexuality is a choice and should lessen someones rights in life
Or to be more specific - the individuals (within a particular religion) who act in particularly bad ways.
I - like all of us - have to be careful not to get caught up in generalizations.

We're all guilty of doing it.

I.e. 'All Parra supporters are misguided fools.........' - I'm having a lot of trouble trying to renounce that one............
 

Seagles68

Bencher
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Or to be more specific - the individuals (within a particular religion) who act in particularly bad ways.
I - like all of us - have to be careful not to get caught up in generalizations.

We're all guilty of doing it.

I.e. 'All Parra supporters are misguided fools.........' - I'm having a lot of trouble trying to renounce that one............
Unenlightened barbarians Brookie Bob, unenlightened barbarians!
 

SeaEagleRock8

Sea Eagle Lach
Premium Member
Tipping Member
You do not seem to be allowing for degree.. it’s becoming a circular discussion
But does that excuse you from answering my question?
(Which was, do you say a choice is only a choice when it is a free choice, totally unemcumbered by any repercussions?)
 

Eagles4Life

Bencher
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Question for @Red Pill et al
Why is Australia the only First-World nation with a colonial history that doesn't provide constitutional recognition for its First Nations people? Paraphrased from statement by Linda Burnley 2019

Fact Checked below
Anybody care to have a serious go at answering my previous question? In case it was missed I will repeat it.

Why is Australia the only First-World nation with a colonial history that doesn't provide constitutional recognition for its First Nations peoples?
 

SeaEagleRock8

Sea Eagle Lach
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Anybody care to have a serious go at answering my previous question? In case it was missed I will repeat it.

Why is Australia the only First-World nation with a colonial history that doesn't provide constitutional recognition for its First Nations peoples?
Answers will come, but it's fair that the hardest questions need time to answer. Give em time to regroup and think.
Far better to wait and get an honest and respectful answer than a rushed flippant one?
 

Seagles68

Bencher
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Anybody care to have a serious go at answering my previous question? In case it was missed I will repeat it.

Why is Australia the only First-World nation with a colonial history that doesn't provide constitutional recognition for its First Nations peoples?
I found this as a starting point. It's old but like I say, a starting point.... maybe.

 

Red Pill

Enthusiastic Amateur
But does that excuse you from answering my question?
(Which was, do you say a choice is only a choice when it is a free choice, totally unemcumbered by any repercussions?)
We clearly see this differently. I don’t see the utility in answering your question which you are framing from your perspective.. I think we just agree to disagree and move on. I don’t see an exchange of opinion as one person constantly having to answer the other’s questions like some legal examination of sorts
 
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Red Pill

Enthusiastic Amateur
Anybody care to have a serious go at answering my previous question? In case it was missed I will repeat it.

Why is Australia the only First-World nation with a colonial history that doesn't provide constitutional recognition for its First Nations peoples?
Hey mate,
I believe I have responded to this.
I think if this question has serious utility in our group exchange of opinions it needs to be specifically framed at a poster who is of the opinion that under no circumstance whatsoever!!they would consider this as an option in some way … from I have read most of the debate is around the conditions they would need to have clarified or in place etc to accept this.
It does not appear fair to me that you are now directing this at everyone in this way. Please let me know if I am somehow misunderstanding the situation or your intent?
Also out of sheer interest I would like to understand the current US model in place?
Cheers RP..
 

lsz

First Grader
Staff member
Or to be more specific - the individuals (within a particular religion) who act in particularly bad ways.
I - like all of us - have to be careful not to get caught up in generalizations.

We're all guilty of doing it.

I.e. 'All Parra supporters are misguided fools.........' - I'm having a lot of trouble trying to renounce that one............
Off course

There are some lovely aspects to religion that is ruined (like all things) by fundamentalism
 

Seagles68

Bencher
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Hey mate,
I believe I have responded to this.
I think if this question has serious utility in our group exchange of opinions it needs to be specifically framed at a poster who is of the opinion that under no circumstance whatsoever!!they would consider this as an option in some way … from I have read most of the debate is around the conditions they would need to have clarified or in place etc to accept this.
It does not appear fair to me that you are now directing this at everyone in this way. Please let me know if I am somehow misunderstanding the situation or your intent?
Also out of sheer interest I would like to understand the current US model in place?
Cheers RP..
I thought the article I posted was illuminating. Did you give it a read? Also, not sure the US approach is worth much given they broke most of them. It's my 2nd home so I'm hopefully not talking thru my bum.
 

Red Pill

Enthusiastic Amateur
I thought the article I posted was illuminating. Did you give it a read? Also, not sure the US approach is worth much given they broke most of them. It's my 2nd home so I'm hopefully not talking thru my bum.
No mate, so much info flying around. I will try to find it. Yeah I am not surprised about the US. that’s one of the reasons I asked, the other and main reason was the diversity of tribes and diverse representation required to make it work…as this would more closely relate to Australia then say NZ.
 

Mark from Brisbane

“ Boomer still Booming”
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Haha you aren't in danger of being identified in either of those camps Mark.
However your passionate views as someone who has seen first hand life in indigenous communities does not entitle you to speak for them.
Nor, if they were to get their Voice, ought white men select who is going to represent their Voice to parliament.
(I note you said you didn't want 'radicals' well surely it would be up to them to decide what is radical and who they want to give them a voice?) :)
Therin lies the issue , who chooses.

The government??
Those who make the most noise ??

No I don’t have the right to speak for them, but I can comment on my life experiences which is probably more than many ( not all ) on here.

We all agree that we have to move forward , but as I’ve stated I really believe it has to start with themselves. The voice needs to be about “ how do we fix the issues “ not “ we own the land so pay is rent “ or “ we want reparations for you stealing our land “ or the like.

It has to start with the elders , they need to be granted tribal justice to deal with their internal issues.

It shouldn’t be about money.

It shouldn’t be about white fellas doing what they think is best.

If it’s just the radical loud noise people chosen , absolutely nothing will be achieved.

I think I’ve said enough now , I’ll make this my last post.
 

Seagles68

Bencher
Premium Member
Tipping Member
No mate, so much info flying around. I will try to find it. Yeah I am not surprised about the US. that’s one of the reasons I asked, the other and main reason was the diversity of tribes and diverse representation required to make it work…as this would more closely relate to Australia then say NZ.
Its just a couple of posts up from this one.
 
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