Fainu and Suli

[Snake]

You obviously have a wealth of technical knowledge which you apply a little negatively for mine.. but I digress...
.

Does he though?

It reads a bit pseudo-rugby league-intellectual to me. Very pretentious. If you stuck his ramblings in front of an NRL coach, they’d ask you what sport he is talking about...he tries to use this terminology that makes sense to him and write it off as some insider technical speak but I’ve never heard any nrl coach say anything remotely similar and part of my job involves talking to them every day.

Some of his gibberish you couldn’t even find on urbandictionary.com

 

[Snake]

I mean you’ve got a premiership winning 9 being shopped around to accomodate Fainu and officials tapping him on the shoulder asking if he is interested in playing SOO in the future...then this technical genius comes along to enlighten us all on the fact that unless Fainu moves into the halves, he will have to be satisfied staying a 40 minute hooker...some of the funniest things I’ve ever heard. He is rarely wrong about these things you know

 

[KOMORI]

With respect.. have you played rugby league?? No need to answer if you don’t wish too..

You obviously have a wealth of technical knowledge which you apply a little negatively for mine.. but I digress...

I ask this because you talk like a manager who’s running a factory, the sort of guy that can recite specs and regulations endlessly, but wouldn’t know a 10mm spanner from a 6” crowbar.

“Rugby league analysis is 20 years behind” yada yada yada...

The point I’m getting at, is that footy is a simple game at heart, and the over regimented, role playing and percentage biased game that it’s become is a far cry from what footy is at its soul. We are losing the skills and intuition and real grit that separates the greats from the mere mortals.

It used to be about physical, mental and almost spiritual toughness: every inch of ground was earned with pain, sweat, fear and the blood of the players. Every point earned was through the guile and skill of the playmakers.

It wasn’t planned out to the second, corridor by corridor with zones and KPI’s and the like. You played hard, busted your gut and the only KPI you had to achieve was the one you set yourself..

I’m well aware that you’ll pan this post as the ramblings of a dinosaur, and that things must evolve or die... and to an extent I agree. But I’d hate to see the sort of instinctive, pure football that we alone tend to pursue, be stamped out by the managerial styles of Bellamy/Bennet et al...

Footy isn’t a product (looking at you Todd!!) that can be tailored to suit the accountants for the best profit and coldly analysed as such.

It’s a way of life, a part of who we are... and no accountant has ever cried after losing a Grand Final.

PSS ... @KOMORI ....That was so good ... I cut and pasted it and am going to pretend I wrote it ........

I am so meteorologically hung over, that I’m not overly sure how that came out remotely coherent.. also not sure if “meteorologically” can or should be used in this context, but as far as I’m concerned, it shall henceforth be the yardstick by which all hangovers are judged!!

PS... no one would believe you if you said that an ex front rower penned the above comment anyhow!!

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

I mean you’ve got a premiership winning 9 being shopped around to accomodate Fainu and officials tapping him on the shoulder asking if he is interested in playing SOO in the future...then this technical genius comes along to enlighten us all on the fact that unless Fainu moves into the halves, he will have to be satisfied staying a 40 minute hooker...some of the funniest things I’ve ever heard. He is rarely wrong about these things you know

Lol (your last line).

 

[KOMORI]

They haven’t quite succeeded in taking away the ad lib style but they are trying.

The days of Cliffy , Phil Blake and co were magical, anything could happen , anywhere, anytime and it was bloody fun to watch!!

Cliffy was the idea behind what I wrote.

KPI?? Are they a new type of cigarette?? How many chip kicks, mesmerising dummies and amazing off the cuff low percentage plays were mandated per game for men like Cliffy and Blake?

None, because you cannot plan for that sort of instinctual brilliance, and you absolutely can_not put a value on a play that won’t exist until it happens.

It’s kind of like trying to put a calorific value on a tackle.. end of the day, it’s not how much petrol is in your tank that drives your shoulder into that big ugly bastard running at you... it’s heart. It’s pride.. it’s that drive to win, and make them rue the day they dared cross that white line into your backyard..

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Cliffy was the idea behind what I wrote.

KPI?? Are they a new type of cigarette?? How many chip kicks, mesmerising dummies and amazing off the cuff low percentage plays were mandated per game for men like Cliffy and Blake?

None, because you cannot plan for that sort of instinctual brilliance, and you absolutely can_not put a value on a play that won’t exist until it happens.

It’s kind of like trying to put a calorific value on a tackle.. end of the day, it’s not how much petrol is in your tank that drives your shoulder into that big ugly bastard running at you... it’s heart. It’s pride.. it’s that drive to win, and make them rue the day they dared cross that white line into your backyard..

Agree but sadly today the bloody refs have a bigger say in how games are run.

Saturday’s was a great example, we skipped away to 10 nil and “ you can’t have that can you” so let’s award 5-6 straight penalties and that’ll fix it!!

The games just not the same as it was and that for me is very very sad.

 

[susan]

10 metre rule killed ball playing forwards off and encouraged robots

And for all the planning / wrestling / block plays/ robot forwards it’s still your Teddy’s and Tommy’s and Mitchell’s that get bums on seats.

 

[KOMORI]

Agree but sadly today the bloody refs have a bigger say in how games are run.

Saturday’s was a great example, we skipped away to 10 nil and “ you can’t have that can you” so let’s award 5-6 straight penalties and that’ll fix it!!

The games just not the same as it was and that for me is very very sad.

Couldn’t agree more.. and to me, this is evidence of the “accountants” having a greater say in the “product”.

I mean.. these selfish, unimaginative twerps have slowly modified a game that could, and did throw up some remarkable results, into a more pliable and predictable product that they can manipulate if they wish, simply through the application of deliberately obtuse and subjectively policed rules that should never have been needed.

When they allowed certain clubs to push the envelope in the way that they approached tackling and the play the ball, they released a genie that subsequent rule changes, clarifications and appendages have failed to catch.

Evidence?? Evidence you say?? The rules are such a problem that the head referee has his own press conference, every single week, with which to explain endless mistakes being made by the very men who should know best. As far as I’m concerned, Annesley’s weekly excuse, denial and carpet sweeping routine is all the evidence we need to see that they’ve over complicated the game to the point where it could well collapse under its own damn weight..

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

I didn't rate Fainu's ruck passing yesterday one bit, was partly the reason why (along with overall tiredness in the squad in the second half but also at times in the first half during the fresh exchanges) that Melbs pack were able to dominate tackles and field position.

Storm put three players into every tackle (occasionally two, sometimes four) and they cling on tight for a couple of seconds after the player is on the ground. Brandon Smith is a great player but the time he was allowed to lay on our players was absurd. That is why they were able to dominate tackles and field position.
By comparison, Manly put two into each tackle, or sometimes one or sometimes three. Seems to me like a deliberate tactical decision, for both teams.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Not here to make friends, befriend NRL players or be chummy with the inner workings of an NRL club, could care less.

It's 'couldn't care less', not 'could care less'. Bloody Americanism!

 

[susan]

I see Craig Bellamy, who analyzes footy 24/7 and is regarded as the best and most thorough coach in the modern game , and often lauded along with his team by our resident expert Technical Coach, had some unsolicited high praise for Manly “ dummy half “ Fainu on NRL 360 tonight.

Must have missed all that lack of intensity, poor defence ,ordinary passing and general lethargy that Fainu exhibits on a weekly basis. He didn’t mention his future as an average halfback either. Surprising stuff.

Des is also well known for his forgiving nature in regard to poor defence and lack of effort so it’s not surprising he hasn’t called Manase to account for his lack of effort.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

It's quite odd indeed. Maybe Fainu has a neck tattoo I hadn't noticed.

 

[Lyonstomenzies]

@Technical Coach is actually Api Koroisau

 

[Technical Coach]

In regards to the defensive stakes I looked at the stats in our last high pressure game against the Storm where Fainu excelled

Fainu 42 tackles zero missed tackles 5 off loads

Cameron Smith 32 tackles 2 missed tackles 1 off load

Now Fainu is no future immortal (yet ) but he is not as bad as you make out he is feathered friend

The real Bozo wouldn't just copy and paste Fox Sports stats and be done with.

I never said Fainu had a bad game, i have never said i don't rate the guy,(a little over-rated at the moment though), i just don't rate his defensive side, especially his energy and intensity off the ball.(how that is taken as me not seeing his potential is beyond me)

Yes people i know he is young and will improve, will grow into the role, will harden up a little, will add more variety around his passing game from dummy half etc etc, that is merely stating the obvious.

I am just telling it as i see it in the present, i could care less if Manly won the GF with Fainu displaying the same low intensity/energy in defence, i judge on what i see, the end result doesn't change my views.

Be very careful with Stats Bozo most are pointless unless analyzed carefully for context.

For example and i have not looked into these stats in much detail but off the top of my head, what is the tackle count distribution within the team, i mean Jake shouldn't be doing 69 tackles that is a crazy effort. I would also be looking at the types of tackles made, how fast the resulting play the ball was, 1st 2nd or 3rd man in(3rd man in is not necessarily bad as hookers are encouraged to get players onto the ground after others have absorbed the runner)

I'm sure Manly made more tackles also, probably 5-6 sets extra which is not that much but still helps with individual stats.

Obviously Cam Smith had more kicks than Fainu(that is conveniently left out) and yes that is not Fainu's role right now within the team but it still places added pressure on DCE. The variety of passing from Dummy half such has, distance, crispness, variety, faceballs of quality , running metres when they were made, where they were made, did the hooker take advantage of good go forward, how many times did the hooker not make it to dummy half.

The above is only a short list but you can see my point----well hopefully you can.

 

[Technical Coach]

@Technical Coach is actually Api Koroisau

I've mentioned in other threads years ago how i didn't rate Api's passes from Dummy half especially when he fatigues-----both hookers have improved in this area.

I don't take sides and even the greatest players are gifted with my pointless/worthless opinions.

There goes my chances of ever having a selfie with an NRL player, blacklisted now awwww.

I feel a bout of bipolar on the way....

 

[Technical Coach]

It's 'couldn't care less', not 'could care less'. Bloody Americanism!

It's always the ones lacking content that end up being the grammar police.

 

[Spartan Eagle]

The real Bozo wouldn't just copy and paste Fox Sports stats and be done with.

I never said Fainu had a bad game, i have never said i don't rate the guy,(a little over-rated at the moment though), i just don't rate his defensive side, especially his energy and intensity off the ball.(how that is taken as me not seeing his potential is beyond me)

Yes people i know he is young and will improve, will grow into the role, will harden up a little, will add more variety around his passing game from dummy half etc etc, that is merely stating the obvious.

I am just telling it as i see it in the present, i could care less if Manly won the GF with Fainu displaying the same low intensity/energy in defence, i judge on what i see, the end result doesn't change my views.

Be very careful with Stats Bozo most are pointless unless analyzed carefully for context.

For example and i have not looked into these stats in much detail but off the top of my head, what is the tackle count distribution within the team, i mean Jake shouldn't be doing 69 tackles that is a crazy effort. I would also be looking at the types of tackles made, how fast the resulting play the ball was, 1st 2nd or 3rd man in(3rd man in is not necessarily bad as hookers are encouraged to get players onto the ground after others have absorbed the runner)

I'm sure Manly made more tackles also, probably 5-6 sets extra which is not that much but still helps with individual stats.

Obviously Cam Smith had more kicks than Fainu(that is conveniently left out) and yes that is not Fainu's role right now within the team but it still places added pressure on DCE. The variety of passing from Dummy half such has, distance, crispness, variety, faceballs of quality , running metres when they were made, where they were made, did the hooker take advantage of good go forward, how many times did the hooker not make it to dummy half.

The above is only a short list but you can see my point----well hopefully you can.

 

[40 years an eagle]

It's always the ones lacking content that end up being the grammar police.

Rubbish, there is no need to be rude.

 

[Technical Coach]

Storm put three players into every tackle (occasionally two, sometimes four) and they cling on tight for a couple of seconds after the player is on the ground. Brandon Smith is a great player but the time he was allowed to lay on our players was absurd. That is why they were able to dominate tackles and field position.
By comparison, Manly put two into each tackle, or sometimes one or sometimes three. Seems to me like a deliberate tactical decision, for both teams.

You play more lateral and expansive to reduce gang tackling and move the defensive line around, Manly just went into their shell at times and played a little too conservatively, on top of fatigue not helping in the second half.

That was the beauty of Manly under Des in the past using lateral play for go forward, the backline and back row did most of the go forward. Also helps having the quality crisp lateral ball distribution of Ballin keeping the entire defensive line honest.

 

[Technical Coach]

With respect.. have you played rugby league?? No need to answer if you don’t wish too..

You obviously have a wealth of technical knowledge which you apply a little negatively for mine.. but I digress...

I ask this because you talk like a manager who’s running a factory, the sort of guy that can recite specs and regulations endlessly, but wouldn’t know a 10mm spanner from a 6” crowbar.

“Rugby league analysis is 20 years behind” yada yada yada...

The point I’m getting at, is that footy is a simple game at heart, and the over regimented, role playing and percentage biased game that it’s become is a far cry from what footy is at its soul. We are losing the skills and intuition and real grit that separates the greats from the mere mortals.

It used to be about physical, mental and almost spiritual toughness: every inch of ground was earned with pain, sweat, fear and the blood of the players. Every point earned was through the guile and skill of the playmakers.

It wasn’t planned out to the second, corridor by corridor with zones and KPI’s and the like. You played hard, busted your gut and the only KPI you had to achieve was the one you set yourself..

I’m well aware that you’ll pan this post as the ramblings of a dinosaur, and that things must evolve or die... and to an extent I agree. But I’d hate to see the sort of instinctive, pure football that we alone tend to pursue, be stamped out by the managerial styles of Bellamy/Bennet et al...

Footy isn’t a product (looking at you Todd!!) that can be tailored to suit the accountants for the best profit and coldly analysed as such.

It’s a way of life, a part of who we are... and no accountant has ever cried after losing a Grand Final.

,

The above is the reason why Melb is so consistent and dominant, only Des and the Roosters really have pushed Melb to improve.

When Melb were first dominating it was all about "only because they cheated the cap" i stuck up for Melb back then for their coaching and recruitment on top of sticking up for Melb for cheating the cap. Then it was "oh they are continuing to dominate as they still get the advantages of retaining the big 4", then it was "well by cheating the cap Melb were able to retain the big 3", then it was "Oh Cronk is gone no chance to make the top 4", now with only Cam Smith on board Melb are still leading the comp by a large margin.

Melb wont win the GF this year but like most years they give themselves a chance.

Melb's dominance shows up how poor the analysis and recruitment is----Des coming back to Manly with instant results also shows that the majority of clubs are no better at coaching or analysis than TB.

During TB's time though whether it was TB or the recruitment team i did compliment the club in recruiting very well on Silvertails, Trent just was not at the level to make it work.