Des out coached by Fitzgibbon tonight
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Let’s be serious here, does anybody actually think we should be beating a top 4 side, when 3 of our 4 top rotation front rowers are out, along with our most potent attacking player in Tom, and another huge threat in Schuster ?
Huge mistake last night selecting Harper to begin with, and then persisting for so long, that’s on Des
The whole hysteria led by commentators that has moved across to social media and forums is ridiculous. “Manly can’t win without Tom” or “without Tom they win 33% of their games” gets lapped up and repeated ad nauseum, neglecting to mention that we won 6/7 without him leading into last night, and for a lot of those games as well we had up to 8-10 players out of the side.
The favourite one now is “Manly can’t beat a top 4 side”. We smoked Parramatta twice last year while they were in the top 4.
The simple facts are we don’t have a top 4 squad, and when that squad is hit by injuries, we will of course struggle to compete. The bones of some very good young players developing is there and if everything clicks they can elevate their level. They can only play what’s in front of them and how the draw plays out
Huge mistake last night selecting Harper to begin with, and then persisting for so long, that’s on Des
The whole hysteria led by commentators that has moved across to social media and forums is ridiculous. “Manly can’t win without Tom” or “without Tom they win 33% of their games” gets lapped up and repeated ad nauseum, neglecting to mention that we won 6/7 without him leading into last night, and for a lot of those games as well we had up to 8-10 players out of the side.
The favourite one now is “Manly can’t beat a top 4 side”. We smoked Parramatta twice last year while they were in the top 4.
The simple facts are we don’t have a top 4 squad, and when that squad is hit by injuries, we will of course struggle to compete. The bones of some very good young players developing is there and if everything clicks they can elevate their level. They can only play what’s in front of them and how the draw plays out
EOL now nesting on the GC
Official NRL commentator of the UK Royal Family
Premium Member
Tipping Member
But that would be no fun would it. Its not even original opinions which would have some merit. Its the same ...... coach is useless, DCE is overpaid, yada yada yada that gets rolled out as soon as we loose. When we win its rainbows and ejaculations from all sides.
Davey scores from that grubby and we would have finished all over them.
I see so many differing opinions and each has it's own merit...there is no 100% correct answer to some of the Des selections, game plans ect
1 thing I have is faith he eventually gets the side in Tip top form and THEY buy into where he is going which is the main factor when it comes to a Winning side.
I'm not sure how to evaluate the legendary Des, who certainly enjoys winning as much or more than anyone here .... in fact some of the closest to Des don't get him....some times Des doesn't get Des FFS.
But I like him and reckon he bleeds Manly which I really appreciate.
There is something over time I have an opinion on, whether right or wrong .... not sure , but here's my take....he is so stubborn, once he makes a decision finds it hard to change it, as wants to prove it was the right call, rather than saying that didn't work or isn't working and make changes at that moment with either game plans or player selections.
As an example - Harper not just due to Covid effects but the form of Koula - was a choice that was not a super suprise, but many felt Koula had earned more game time and more to the point, after 10 minutes, it was blatently obvious Talakai was gunna keep running thru Harper like a sloppy sao and should have been hooked at 10 - 0, but Des persisted with him.
Some will be offended and that's ok, but I rate him Big time as a coach, but feel this is a weakness and there are patterns that will support this and I wouldn't trade this proud Manly man
Keep in mind, though treated like gods - ALL coaches make mistakes - many of them in fact, but it's a great ability to acknowledge an error in judgement and change this on the run - the best players also have this attribute and don't keep banging down the door with the concrete behind it
1 thing I have is faith he eventually gets the side in Tip top form and THEY buy into where he is going which is the main factor when it comes to a Winning side.
I'm not sure how to evaluate the legendary Des, who certainly enjoys winning as much or more than anyone here .... in fact some of the closest to Des don't get him....some times Des doesn't get Des FFS.
But I like him and reckon he bleeds Manly which I really appreciate.
There is something over time I have an opinion on, whether right or wrong .... not sure , but here's my take....he is so stubborn, once he makes a decision finds it hard to change it, as wants to prove it was the right call, rather than saying that didn't work or isn't working and make changes at that moment with either game plans or player selections.
As an example - Harper not just due to Covid effects but the form of Koula - was a choice that was not a super suprise, but many felt Koula had earned more game time and more to the point, after 10 minutes, it was blatently obvious Talakai was gunna keep running thru Harper like a sloppy sao and should have been hooked at 10 - 0, but Des persisted with him.
Some will be offended and that's ok, but I rate him Big time as a coach, but feel this is a weakness and there are patterns that will support this and I wouldn't trade this proud Manly man
Keep in mind, though treated like gods - ALL coaches make mistakes - many of them in fact, but it's a great ability to acknowledge an error in judgement and change this on the run - the best players also have this attribute and don't keep banging down the door with the concrete behind it
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Hotspur2014
Reserve Grader
You don’t need to be Einstein to work out that Des selections have been very questionable. Maybe he can now pull ha head out of his arse and start putting together a team that is competitive when all fit -
1.Turbo
2.Garrick
3.Kalou
4.Walker
5.Tiptoes
6.Schuster
7. Foran
8. Aloia
9. DCE
10.Paseka
11.Davey
12.Big O
13. Jake
Res: Tapau, Keppie, Lawton, Weekes
Harper, Parker and Saab are shot birds and need out !!!!!
47MVEagle
Bencher
My posse?
Geez.
Like I said on my first post on this - when we're losing it's all Des' fault & when we're winning it's only because the other team have put the cue back in the rack.
That is glass is half empty attitude & I do not share it.
Carry on.
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So you just picked one centre and a winger....I do agree on the Koula selection though.
Brookie Bob
"I come back to you now at the turn of the tide"
Huge in the middle size-wise? Compared to whom?
Here's the Sharks pack and interchange from last night:
Toby Rudolf
The NRL profile of Toby Rudolf including career statistics, season stats, games, tries, goals, tackles and fantasy scores.
www.sharks.com.au
Blayke Brailey
The NRL profile of Blayke Brailey including career statistics, season stats, games, tries, goals, tackles and fantasy scores.
www.sharks.com.au
Royce Hunt
The NRL profile of Royce Hunt including career statistics, season stats, games, tries, goals, tackles and fantasy scores.
www.sharks.com.au
Briton Nikora
The NRL profile of Briton Nikora including career statistics, season stats, games, tries, goals, tackles and fantasy scores.
www.sharks.com.au
Teig Wilton
The NRL profile of Teig Wilton including career statistics, season stats, games, tries, goals, tackles and fantasy scores.
www.sharks.com.au
Cameron McInnes
The NRL profile of Cameron McInnes including career statistics, season stats, games, tries, goals, tackles and fantasy scores.
www.sharks.com.au
Aiden Tolman
The NRL profile of Aiden Tolman including career statistics, season stats, games, tries, goals, tackles and fantasy scores.
www.sharks.com.au
Braydon Trindall
The NRL profile of Braydon Trindall including career statistics, season stats, games, tries, goals, tackles and fantasy scores.
www.sharks.com.au
Jack Williams
The NRL profile of Jack Williams including career statistics, season stats, games, tries, goals, tackles and fantasy scores.
www.sharks.com.au
Andrew Fifita
The NRL profile of Andrew Fifita including career statistics, season stats, games, tries, goals, tackles and fantasy scores.
www.sharks.com.au
Fifita was the only huge Sharks player out there. He played a total of 21 minutes. If I were Des, I'd be using the above info to say, "and you let that pack dominate you in the first 40 minutes - have a good look at yourselves". Tolman is tiny for a front rower. Even Rudolf is not that big. Our combined backrow size (even with Lawton in for Davey) was bigger than Cronulla's.
In the backs, we got monstered on one side, by a second rower-cum centre (Talakai) who weighs 100 kgs. Harper weighs 95 kgs - big enough to handle a player who weighs 5 kgs more. Or he should be, or get off the field. Harper and Saab weigh a total of 196 kgs, Talakai and Mulitalo weigh a total of 195 kgs. More about the size of the fight in the dog, rather than the size of the dog in the fight.
Tippytoes and Parker were bigger than Ramien and Katoa - but we didn't dominate on the left either.
Our hope next week is to get Tafua, Keppie and Schuster back in the side, and keep Koula at right centre. Then the week after - get Tommy back. Then the week after that - get Aloiai back.
manly al
First Grader
Also could not see the reasoning in starting Davey at prop and Lawton in the 2 nd row let alone Harper ahead of koula in the starting line up . Paseka would have provided better input from the get go and Lawton , certainly has a go but very one dimensional type player . really should have been the listed game day pack starting . Jake would have done his usual mid half switch to prop and Bulemor lacking nothing as a prop - 2 nd rower rotation forward . Koula would have aimed up much better in defence from the start , just seems such a better defensive formation with him there in the centres and not to discount his ability to break the line . Could well have even resulted in a different outcome the way the 2 nd half went even allowing for that dominant Sharks i st half showing and if Des did not opt for some very questionable pre game changes and omitting koula .
It’s been that way on here since day zot!!
The same posters come out with the same stuff after any loss and then stay almost quiet after a win.
The ebbs and flows of Silvertails.
Wow so many excuses and so much acceptance of a 32-0 scoreline at halftime. Where are the spirits and ruthlessness of the great Manly teams through the 70s mid80s mid90s & 2006-2013. Disappeared into a sea of millenial ho hum mediocrity acceptance and excuses. The Barrettt poison is still alive and festering in this club.
I honestly can’t fathom why people are so shocked we still can’t beat a top side..
I said at the end of last season that 2022 will be more of the same.. flog the useless, win most of the so/so sides, lose to the top sides, because we haven’t improved 1 single position from the team that couldn’t get it done last year..
Same spine, same forwards, same inept centres… we haven’t improved anywhere, or upgraded any positions with a new recruit/bringing up a jnr, so why on earth do people here keep expecting a different result???
I was happy with our effort last night, had Harper been back playing for meat trays like he belongs who knows, maybe we do beat the sharks, but I still haven’t seen anything from this team that says we are plying the same game as a storm/panthers/roosters/bunnies side, let alone be in the same league as them
I said at the end of last season that 2022 will be more of the same.. flog the useless, win most of the so/so sides, lose to the top sides, because we haven’t improved 1 single position from the team that couldn’t get it done last year..
Same spine, same forwards, same inept centres… we haven’t improved anywhere, or upgraded any positions with a new recruit/bringing up a jnr, so why on earth do people here keep expecting a different result???
I was happy with our effort last night, had Harper been back playing for meat trays like he belongs who knows, maybe we do beat the sharks, but I still haven’t seen anything from this team that says we are plying the same game as a storm/panthers/roosters/bunnies side, let alone be in the same league as them
Well in essence the only recognised player added was Ethan Bullemor, so you are 110% right.
I’m hoping with the departure of Marty on $850k that next year we can look through fill a few obvious holes.
Depending of course on who’s on the market.
Des has tremendous loyalty to his players.
It's usually a great trait, but it has its downside when he sticks too long with the status quo before introducing youth.....usually only when forced by injury.
This has always been the way with Des, so I'm not sure why anyone would be suprised.
Manly is like the Aussie cricket side of the 90s. Harder to get out of than get into.
It's usually a great trait, but it has its downside when he sticks too long with the status quo before introducing youth.....usually only when forced by injury.
This has always been the way with Des, so I'm not sure why anyone would be suprised.
Manly is like the Aussie cricket side of the 90s. Harder to get out of than get into.
frank stokes
I discriminate indiscriminately
I reckon it is more loyalty than stubbornness with Des... he has played in great teams and knows that confidence is huge for a side and you don't get that by chopping and changing - I reckon he backs his players in order to install that confidence and, hopefully, reap the benefits...
I think his approach is sound but I just think he has backed a couple of wrong ponies over the last couple of seasons (hello go-jet-ski) and I cannot understand why good teams continue to get out to big leads on us... it seems there is a defensive weakness that they are exploiting and that Des seems unable to identify/rectify?
I’m just worried if Marty leaves we don’t replace him like for like.. I still rate the bloke, think him and Josh are our best starting options, if Marty leaves and we don’t buy another top line prop, instead just using paseka to cover him instead, all we’re doing is weakening our front row.. which imo we really can’t afford to do
Waz13
Let’s all have a chew!
But instead Des is out coached, sharks put rack in the cue, sharks are top 4 and we can’t beat a top 4 team. What ever meets the need for those to twist info to meet their agenda/narrative on here. One game at a time and we got beat last night and probably deserved to after the first half. I’ll take the positives away in that we showed fight to get back into it and hopefully Koula has taken harpers spot now. On to Souths next week which I’d imagine if we win they ain’t a top 4 team and if we lose they are a top 4 team.
32-0 was diabolical, but just from looking at how all the scoring was at one end of the field, the wind clearly was worth like 20 points or so. If we didn't gain even more injuried players to the point we ended up with a 1 man bench, I seriously think we could have caught the Sharks.
Yes harper had a terrible game. I have a soft spot for Harper because when he came into the team last year, he added quite a lot of enthusiasm and played better than Suli. But I agree as the season got longer his form dropped and never really recovered. To be honest with the amount of strapping he has, feel like he's had niggling injuries for a while. Time for him to see if he can recover and regain some form and confidence in reserve grade.
If the team had given up and the Sharks had run up a cricket score, I can understand the doom and gloom, but we only just ran out of puff while missing 3/4 of our prop rotation, missing Trbojevic, missing Schuster and in game lost Walker, Paseka, Davey.
Geez we have some harsh markers on the forum.
Yes harper had a terrible game. I have a soft spot for Harper because when he came into the team last year, he added quite a lot of enthusiasm and played better than Suli. But I agree as the season got longer his form dropped and never really recovered. To be honest with the amount of strapping he has, feel like he's had niggling injuries for a while. Time for him to see if he can recover and regain some form and confidence in reserve grade.
If the team had given up and the Sharks had run up a cricket score, I can understand the doom and gloom, but we only just ran out of puff while missing 3/4 of our prop rotation, missing Trbojevic, missing Schuster and in game lost Walker, Paseka, Davey.
Geez we have some harsh markers on the forum.
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