DCE, Turbo and Seibold

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Lyonstomenzies

Bencher
Premium Member
Oh and just like that I flip on Silvertails after a few days break and can't stop myself from having a say

Good on you for optimism and yes what you said in theory sounds great. Hear me out because this isn't a usual rant lamenting the club and your optimism is not completely unwarranted. Afterall, there is definitely a possibility that things do infact 'work' as they should in theory.

But to be devils advocate, intellegence can be incredibly misleading is team work environments. I hate to say this, but I can say it behind the anonymity of being online, but I myself am rather 'intellegent'.

I also have ADHD. Why would I say that? Well, when it comes to explaining my ideas to people in words it often comes out like newspeak. Tangents, ambiguities, metaphors, disjointed descriptions. Sometimes I get it just right and explain things simple. But a majority of the time I have to step away, do something myself and show them a physical example of what I meant before it is clear. Basically, intellegence is not really an indicator of effectiveness as a 'coach'. It is relatability and mastery of communicating things simply that makes any good orator or mentor; be it a lecturer at uni, a primary school teacher, or a coach. That's why I back Des more than most.

It's why some professors may be able to answer any physics question with ease themselves, but leave a trail of disenchanted, confused students behind them as they go about forwarding their knowledge.

While Seibold may be intellegent, and DCE may be intellegent, that does not correlate to success in team sport, which requires a significant amount of teaching skills and man/class managemnent. It seemed just as people out of favour with Seibold where trying to describe him as being egotistical and a poor mentor, those that worked alongside him at Fox League and some sympathetic media personalities tried to portray him as an intellect, describing that 'he has learned' from his Broncos catastrophe.

You're right to side with either portrayal, but I will refuse to accept that intellegence is enough to be a good coach. I know that he impresses Penn, but also it must be said corporate types tend to be easily gripped by percieved intellegence and promise.

DCE is another victim. As we know with him, his intellegence is best applied within simple frameworks, where he has time to properly think and effect. When he is too heavily relied upon he becomes scrambled. And while he appears to speak with great clarity and direction in group huddles, the message never seems to translate.

Seibold must remember he is a teacher, and his students are mostly uneducated in one sense or another. Often when players talk about Wayne Bennett they mention that a) he backs them and b) he just tells them to do their thing. He may have a gameplan but it is never complicated. Wayne Bennett, Des Hasler, Craig Bellamy and other recently successful coaches operate much the same; they man-manage, they support, they come in and generally evolve teams over long-term periods, rather than short ones; constantly making subtle tweaks.

My rant reminded me of a thing I read a few weeks ago

Keep your optimism, I don't want to ruin the fun too much!
But also people shouldn't sell themselves to the idea that intellegent people are more capable than themselves. :nod:
I’m pretty optimistic around our season next year. I always am, until I’m not.

Same goes for most things, I always think how fantastic they are going to be until reality kicks in.

Always look on the bright side of life 😉
 

Tragic Eagle

Tragic
Premium Member
Tipping Member
It is not too late to play DCE at Hooker but we need to blood an new young half back. Is Humphrey's ready yet? I would expect a period of transition would be required. DCE is 33 and will be 34 before next years kick off. He is coming to the end of his representative career and it looks like Cleary has dethroned him in the Australian squad. Its time to put Manly first. I have been an advocate of this change because DCE kicks well from dummy half, defends well in close and won't be defending on edges where he tends to race up and leave defender outside of him at sea. It makes sense to play a player where he will be of most benefit to the team. He should be prepared to put his hand up and make it easy for the coach.
 

Bearfax

Grizzly old fart
I’m pretty optimistic around our season next year. I always am, until I’m not.

Same goes for most things, I always think how fantastic they are going to be until reality kicks in.

Always look on the bright side of life 😉


A half full cup man. I like it
 

Bearfax

Grizzly old fart
Sorry guys,. Cant agree with DCE at hooker and frankly we have no one of his quality at this stage to take over the half position. Humphries is a work in progress and Latu might fill the bill in a year or two. But there is no one near that quality presently in the group. Frankly I dont see DCE as the problem at all. We had until recently a pedestrian backline when Turbo wasnt available and a forward line up with just a couple of worthy first graders. Add to that a makeshift hooker, who's a damn good defender and tries hard but isnt top tier. DCE isnt a great ball player, but then neither was Toovey. Toovey was tough, a great defender, a go forward type, but he was also in a top side with Lyon and then Lyons in his side, both top tier ball players. That's what Manly is missing and hopefully Schuster will answer that problem. If not then Latu next cab off the rank. Both look potentially top tier.
 

bob dylan

First Grader
Premium Member
Tipping Member
A backline with

Turbo
Garrick
Koula
Parker/Tupilotu/Weekes
Saab
Schuster
DCE

Should be one of the better in the competition.

So it really comes down to the pack. Ideally as you say some mongrel fowards to be added


Agree with the last sentence. But those halves are substandard, close to the worst in the comp.
 

Woodsie

Feast yer eyes ..
Tipping Member
DCE goes into headless chook mode when things fall apart ... the reason he does this is because, as a team, we don't have the trained structures and patterns to fall back on ...

The fact that he feels the need to do extraordinary things to change the momentum of a game, simply indicates to me, that as a team, no time has been spent at training rehearsing a "reset" mode strategy

Good, organised football comes when all players know their roles, at all times of the game, and in every circumstance ... panic football happens when there is no confidence in the team dynamic ..

And that happens when your coaching is ineffective ..
 

Jerry1

First Grader
DCE goes into headless chook mode when things fall apart ... the reason he does this is because, as a team, we don't have the trained structures and patterns to fall back on ...

The fact that he feels the need to do extraordinary things to change the momentum of a game, simply indicates to me, that as a team, no time has been spent at training rehearsing a "reset" mode strategy

Good, organised football comes when all players know their roles, at all times of the game, and in every circumstance ... panic football happens when there is no confidence in the team dynamic ..

And that happens when your coaching is ineffective ..
I'd say headless chook mode is usually engaged when our forwards are going backwards. Turtle struggles to manage the game. When the HCM kicks in - it's bomb to the air directly to the fullback or run in 2 to 3 circle's lose 20 meters before being walloped by the opposition & getting up with a silly grin with giggles & wild eyes.. Then you know we're farked.. 20 points on us within 8 minutes.
 

Johnno74

Reserve Grader
Ok few left field throws , Garrick fb, turbo center ,Jake prop gives us more strike in key position limits toms injury percentage and more mobility in forwards 🤔just a thought been saying it for ages.
 

Eagles4Life

Bencher
Premium Member
Tipping Member
I actually looked through the other teams halves after reading your comment.

DCE is a known quantity so it all depends on Schuster really.

You may well be right.

He may well be wrong too. Lets wait until next season to make a judgement. I am actually seeing 2023 with a lot more optimism, than I was in the last couple of rounds in 2022. I would love to see Schuster and DCE prove all of us wrong, by combining really well.

New coaching and new structures will change a lot for us. I will definitly be coming back to some of these posts next season, to see just how well they age.
 
D

Deleted member 26876

Guest
DCE goes into headless chook mode when things fall apart ... the reason he does this is because, as a team, we don't have the trained structures and patterns to fall back on ...

The fact that he feels the need to do extraordinary things to change the momentum of a game, simply indicates to me, that as a team, no time has been spent at training rehearsing a "reset" mode strategy

Good, organised football comes when all players know their roles, at all times of the game, and in every circumstance ... panic football happens when there is no confidence in the team dynamic ..

And that happens when your coaching is ineffective ..
Des really has become quite the scapegoat for some, hasn't he? Just completely forget all the good years and all the context behind dce's career. In 2016 he was made a new player, and that role has stuck. In 2016 bad, 2017 good, 2018 bad, 2019, good. 2020, meh. 2021, relatively good, 2022 bad. If we wanted we could look back at every season and im sure more often than not it depended on his role, halves partner and team fitness/injury.

Oh well, that's the way it goes
 
Last edited by a moderator:
D

Deleted member 26876

Guest
Buck stops with the coach.

Endless conservative decisions, for whatever reason, have worn thin with most of the fan base, clearly.
Buck has stopped with the coach here how many times now?

Not good enough
 

Woodsie

Feast yer eyes ..
Tipping Member
Des really has become quite the scapegoat for some, hasn't he? Just completely forget all the good years and all the context behind dce's career. In 2016 he was made a new player, and that role has stuck. In 2016 bad, 2017 good, 2018 bad, 2019, good. 2020, meh. 2021, relatively good, 2022 bad. Playing squad and his team role evolved over that period.

Oh well, that's the way it goes

Are you saying that you think we were a well coached team last year ?
 

Frogz

Bencher
Premium Member
Des really has become quite the scapegoat for some, hasn't he? Just completely forget all the good years and all the context behind dce's career. In 2016 he was made a new player, and that role has stuck. In 2016 bad, 2017 good, 2018 bad, 2019, good. 2020, meh. 2021, relatively good, 2022 bad. If we wanted we could look back at every season and im sure more often than not it depended on his role, halves partner and team fitness/injury.

Oh well, that's the way it goes
2011 walked out on the club
 
D

Deleted member 26876

Guest
Are you saying that you think we were a well coached team last year ?
I hate questions like this because it always requires a long response. To make a judgement on something like this there's no choice but to go into the context.

I edited the post. I said that dce has lost his way ever since his role changed in 2016. However, his good seasons align (by no coincidence) to periods where he has a fit team around him (not that I am supporting dce here). He is inconsistent and relies on people to take pressure off him. Coaching can't fix that anymore. Happens in origin and internationals too when the night isn't right. We've obviously had little money to work with since Barrett left us and have had to back our juniors to develop (most have come through pretty well and have been eased in fine, albeit gradually).

Edit* Im over wasting time; yours and mine. I just deleted the rest I wrote. Reality is that you are going to keep blaming the coach. Next time a plane crashes due to a rocket shooting it down I hope you sue the pilot.
 

Woodsie

Feast yer eyes ..
Tipping Member
I hate questions like this because it always requires a long response. To make a judgement on something like this there's no choice but to go into the context.

I edited the post. I said that dce has lost his way ever since his role changed in 2016. However, his good seasons align (by no coincidence) to periods where he has a fit team around him (not that I am supporting dce here). He is inconsistent and relies on people to take pressure off him. Coaching can't fix that anymore. Happens in origin and internationals too when the night isn't right. We've obviously had little money to work with since Barrett left us and have had to back our juniors to develop (most have come through pretty well and have been eased in fine, albeit gradually).

Edit* Im over wasting time; yours and mine. I just deleted the rest I wrote. Reality is that you are going to keep blaming the coach. Next time a plane crashes due to a rocket shooting it down I hope you sue the pilot.

WOW ....
 

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