DCE, Turbo and Seibold

[Lyonstomenzies]

I heard a story that the NSW Blues did a few mind training sessions where players touched a sequence of light as they flashed to build hand eye coordination. Tommy studied the light patterns and memorised the sequence. The team were amazed at his intelligence.

DCE by all accounts is a very smart human also and astute at learning.

I’ve been very frustrated at watching DCE and his performances over the last few years as he takes too many risks when we need settled play.

Turbo also can be guilty of trying too hard and taking low percentage plays. Was this Des’s coaching that gave them both this direction of ad lib, unstructured play???

We hear Seibold is an astute mind and a great mind of the game, that has more of a technical mind at plays rather that the Bennet, Hasler mould of the players mind coach.

So I guess I’m super excited to see how Seibold takes our two biggest names and what game plan he has to lead us to success.

I can’t wait for season 23 to start to see just how good we can be with a new coaching regime at the helm.

Could be one of the best moves ever to get an under performing half with huge talent and the games best player in Tom.

Some of the younger boys like Koula and Ola might really shine with someone like Seibold who gives clear direction in what they should do on the field instead of be a father figure and mind coach.

Bring on 2023 and a top 8 finish I say.

 

[qldeagle]

Good to hear Tommy wasn't injured doing the test.

 

[Budgie]

I heard a story that the NSW Blues did a few mind training sessions where players touched a sequence of light as they flashed to build hand eye coordination. Tommy studied the light patterns and memorised the sequence. The team were amazed at his intelligence.

DCE by all accounts is a very smart human also and astute at learning.

I’ve been very frustrated at watching DCE and his performances over the last few years as he takes too many risks when we need settled play.

Turbo also can be guilty of trying too hard and taking low percentage plays. Was this Des’s coaching that gave them both this direction of ad lib, unstructured play???

We hear Seibold is an astute mind and a great mind of the game, that has more of a technical mind at plays rather that the Bennet, Hasler mould of the players mind coach.

So I guess I’m super excited to see how Seibold takes our two biggest names and what game plan he has to lead us to success.

I can’t wait for season 23 to start to see just how good we can be with a new coaching regime at the helm.

Could be one of the best moves ever to get an under performing half with huge talent and the games best player in Tom.

Some of the younger boys like Koula and Ola might really shine with someone like Seibold who gives clear direction in what they should do on the field instead of be a father figure and mind coach.

Bring on 2023 and a top 8 finish I say.

First thing I need him to do is put Jake to prop. Then we can worry about the fancies.

 

[Woodsie]

Turbo also can be guilty of trying too hard and taking low percentage plays. Was this Des’s coaching that gave them both this direction of ad lib, unstructured play???

No ... it is a symptom of a .. lack of coaching ...

We were a very poorly coached team right across the entire spectrum ....

 

[Bearfax]

I heard a story that the NSW Blues did a few mind training sessions where players touched a sequence of light as they flashed to build hand eye coordination. Tommy studied the light patterns and memorised the sequence. The team were amazed at his intelligence.

DCE by all accounts is a very smart human also and astute at learning.

I’ve been very frustrated at watching DCE and his performances over the last few years as he takes too many risks when we need settled play.

Turbo also can be guilty of trying too hard and taking low percentage plays. Was this Des’s coaching that gave them both this direction of ad lib, unstructured play???

We hear Seibold is an astute mind and a great mind of the game, that has more of a technical mind at plays rather that the Bennet, Hasler mould of the players mind coach.

So I guess I’m super excited to see how Seibold takes our two biggest names and what game plan he has to lead us to success.

I can’t wait for season 23 to start to see just how good we can be with a new coaching regime at the helm.

Could be one of the best moves ever to get an under performing half with huge talent and the games best player in Tom.

Some of the younger boys like Koula and Ola might really shine with someone like Seibold who gives clear direction in what they should do on the field instead of be a father figure and mind coach.

Bring on 2023 and a top 8 finish I say.

My impression is that DCE and Turbo have been carrying this side for the past 5 years and the weight of responsibility shows in what you are suggesting. You dont see either of them perform in that manner in rep games. Manly has had a second rate side for some time that was never going to seriously challenge for the throne. This may change with the rise of some talented youngsters and if they can snare a couple of mongrel forwards. I like the look of the backline that is developing. There are a couple of top forwards there also. Barring injury they should make the 8 in 2023.

 

[BOZO]

No ... it is a symptom of a .. lack of coaching ...

We were a very poorly coached team right across the entire spectrum ....

Sadly , Des failed to inspire and underachieved in his second coming

His team selections and game plans were frustrating as we went from one mediocre loss to another
Setting historic club defeat point records and failing to compete with top 8 teams being labelled flat track bullies
No Manly team in the history of our club was ever labelled flat track bullies

Zero Tackle
Sorry Manly fans, be as angry as you want, but the stats back up the following statement: you're flat-track bullies. You belt poor teams but can't beat the elite sides. There's not a lot wrong with that but Manly fans were so angry all week after Ryan Girdler suggested they weren't capable of stepping up. They're not.

 

[Rocky]

My impression is that DCE and Turbo have been carrying this side for the past 5 years and the weight of responsibility shows in what you are suggesting. You dont see either of them perform in that manner in rep games. Manly has had a second rate side for some time that was never going to seriously challenge for the throne. This may change with the rise of some talented youngsters and if they can snare a couple of mongrel forwards. I like the look of the backline that is developing. There are a couple of top forwards there also. Barring injury they should make the 8 in 2023.

A backline with

Turbo
Garrick
Koula
Parker/Tupilotu/Weekes
Saab
Schuster
DCE

Should be one of the better in the competition.

So it really comes down to the pack. Ideally as you say some mongrel fowards to be added

 

[Deleted member 26876]

Oh and just like that I flip on Silvertails after a few days break and can't stop myself from having a say

Good on you for optimism and yes what you said in theory sounds great. Hear me out because this isn't a usual rant lamenting the club and your optimism is not completely unwarranted. Afterall, there is definitely a possibility that things do infact 'work' as they should in theory.

But to be devils advocate, intellegence can be incredibly misleading is team work environments. I hate to say this, but I can say it behind the anonymity of being online, but I myself am rather 'intellegent'.

I also have ADHD. Why would I say that? Well, when it comes to explaining my ideas to people in words it often comes out like newspeak. Tangents, ambiguities, metaphors, disjointed descriptions. Sometimes I get it just right and explain things simple. But a majority of the time I have to step away, do something myself and show them a physical example of what I meant before it is clear. Basically, intellegence is not really an indicator of effectiveness as a 'coach'. It is relatability and mastery of communicating things simply that makes any good orator or mentor; be it a lecturer at uni, a primary school teacher, or a coach. That's why I back Des more than most.

It's why some professors may be able to answer any physics question with ease themselves, but leave a trail of disenchanted, confused students behind them as they go about forwarding their knowledge.

While Seibold may be intellegent, and DCE may be intellegent, that does not correlate to success in team sport, which requires a significant amount of teaching skills and man/class managemnent. It seemed just as people out of favour with Seibold where trying to describe him as being egotistical and a poor mentor, those that worked alongside him at Fox League and some sympathetic media personalities tried to portray him as an intellect, describing that 'he has learned' from his Broncos catastrophe.

You're right to side with either portrayal, but I will refuse to accept that intellegence is enough to be a good coach. I know that he impresses Penn, but also it must be said corporate types tend to be easily gripped by percieved intellegence and promise.

DCE is another victim. As we know with him, his intellegence is best applied within simple frameworks, where he has time to properly think and effect. When he is too heavily relied upon he becomes scrambled. And while he appears to speak with great clarity and direction in group huddles, the message never seems to translate.

Seibold must remember he is a teacher, and his students are mostly uneducated in one sense or another. Often when players talk about Wayne Bennett they mention that a) he backs them and b) he just tells them to do their thing. He may have a gameplan but it is never complicated. Wayne Bennett, Des Hasler, Craig Bellamy and other recently successful coaches operate much the same; they man-manage, they support, they come in and generally evolve teams over long-term periods, rather than short ones; constantly making subtle tweaks.

My rant reminded me of a thing I read a few weeks ago

Why are there lecturers/teachers who are very smart but don't have good teaching skills?

Answer (1 of 18): Just because a person is an expert in a particular subject matter doesn’t mean he or she will be a good teacher that can impart knowledge and use good teaching skills. These are separate concepts. I can share a personal example using my own family. I have a brother who has his P...

www.quora.com

Keep your optimism, I don't want to ruin the fun too much!
But also people shouldn't sell themselves to the idea that intellegent people are more capable than themselves.

 

[Eagle 1]

My impression is that DCE and Turbo have been carrying this side for the past 5 years and the weight of responsibility shows in what you are suggesting. You dont see either of them perform in that manner in rep games. Manly has had a second rate side for some time that was never going to seriously challenge for the throne. This may change with the rise of some talented youngsters and if they can snare a couple of mongrel forwards. I like the look of the backline that is developing. There are a couple of top forwards there also. Barring injury they should make the 8 in 2023.

And all because we had or have 3 marquee players, Tom, DCE, Jake, Marty and Ailoi on 600k. Marty's gone now, so a bit of cap relief for us. We have also invested heavily in our juniors the Fainu's just the 2 now and a hand full of others, which I'm ok with.

 

[BOZO]

A backline with

Turbo
Garrick
Koula
Parker/Tupilotu/Weekes
Saab
Schuster
DCE

Should be one of the better in the competition.

So it really comes down to the pack. Ideally as you say some mongrel fowards to be added

The slow and predictable Parker is not one of the better centres in the competition
Far from it

 

[Rocky]

The slow and predictable Parker is not one of the better centres in the competition
Far from it

Thats why i bracketed him with two other players?

 

[JenEagle]

Dce will be 34 next year. At some stage his pace off the mark will start to diminish as all humans do from about that age.
He needs to mould himself into a more structured controlling half the next 3 years.

 

[BOZO]

Thats why i bracketed him with two other players?

Yes now I understand
Parker does try hard but he does not score many tries and busts many tackles or creates many tries for his wingers
Parker runs great likes but rarely breaks them through sheer speed or power
Parker has the spirit but lacks the skill and speed
Rebuilding is essential to becoming a stronger team with addiction of more competitive players

 

[Bearfax]

The slow and predictable Parker is not one of the better centres in the competition
Far from it

He's very reliable Bozo and does his best. No question about his commitment and he is a good defender (still think he's a mobile forward running out there in the backs). But I have to agree. He wont win you games. We need fleet footed clever players out there. Koula is obviously one. I'm hoping Weekes will be another.

 

[bob dylan]

I was hoping this was a game of

Route One, Marry One, Kill One.

Anyone want to play, its hard working out which one to kill.

 

[Scorpio]

He's very reliable Bozo and does his best. No question about his commitment and he is a good defender (still think he's a mobile forward running out there in the backs). But I have to agree. He wont win you games. We need fleet footed clever players out there. Koula is obviously one. I'm hoping Weekes will be another.

We have a salary cap we need to work with for 30 players. Not all of them play every week and we can't afford a team full of superstars.

Also a reminder that the Storm last won a competition with Brenko Lee who has made only 75 NRL starts since his debut in 2014 and has otherwise been in reserve grade for much of that time. Penrith won a competition in 2021 with Paul Momirovski who was unwanted at Roosters, Tigers and Storm before that.

 

[BOZO]

He's very reliable Bozo and does his best. No question about his commitment and he is a good defender (still think he's a mobile forward running out there in the backs). But I have to agree. He wont win you games. We need fleet footed clever players out there. Koula is obviously one. I'm hoping Weekes will be another.

In the fast game slow is a liability in both attack and defence as you can not stop a player you can not catch

The fast game is dominated by speed and speedy and skilful blockbusting players

Parker has the heart but lacks the speed and skill

Parker is reliable but he is also predictably slow wating for that opportunity for some one to put him through the line

Superior backs create their own line breaks and also create tries for other players

 

[BOZO]

We have a salary cap we need to work with for 30 players. Not all of them play every week and we can't afford a team full of superstars.

The cap is only as affective as it is spent

Not all young players or players that are not given an opportunity by their coach ( Hi Des )
are expensive

There is value out there and better option players than we have

 

[QueefRichards]

With DCE I think people confuse being polite and reasonably well spoken with having footy smarts. Foran is a smarter player than DCE, in that he makes the right decisions at the right time more than DCE.

I'm sure Manly didnt give him all the guidance that he should've been getting but he's had several different coaches at club level and at representative level and he hasn't fundamentally changed. So I don't think Seibold is going to change much on that front.

 

[Budgie]

Oh and just like that I flip on Silvertails after a few days break and can't stop myself from having a say

Good on you for optimism and yes what you said in theory sounds great. Hear me out because this isn't a usual rant lamenting the club and your optimism is not completely unwarranted. Afterall, there is definitely a possibility that things do infact 'work' as they should in theory.

But to be devils advocate, intellegence can be incredibly misleading is team work environments. I hate to say this, but I can say it behind the anonymity of being online, but I myself am rather 'intellegent'.

I also have ADHD. Why would I say that? Well, when it comes to explaining my ideas to people in words it often comes out like newspeak. Tangents, ambiguities, metaphors, disjointed descriptions. Sometimes I get it just right and explain things simple. But a majority of the time I have to step away, do something myself and show them a physical example of what I meant before it is clear. Basically, intellegence is not really an indicator of effectiveness as a 'coach'. It is relatability and mastery of communicating things simply that makes any good orator or mentor; be it a lecturer at uni, a primary school teacher, or a coach. That's why I back Des more than most.

It's why some professors may be able to answer any physics question with ease themselves, but leave a trail of disenchanted, confused students behind them as they go about forwarding their knowledge.

While Seibold may be intellegent, and DCE may be intellegent, that does not correlate to success in team sport, which requires a significant amount of teaching skills and man/class managemnent. It seemed just as people out of favour with Seibold where trying to describe him as being egotistical and a poor mentor, those that worked alongside him at Fox League and some sympathetic media personalities tried to portray him as an intellect, describing that 'he has learned' from his Broncos catastrophe.

You're right to side with either portrayal, but I will refuse to accept that intellegence is enough to be a good coach. I know that he impresses Penn, but also it must be said corporate types tend to be easily gripped by percieved intellegence and promise.

DCE is another victim. As we know with him, his intellegence is best applied within simple frameworks, where he has time to properly think and effect. When he is too heavily relied upon he becomes scrambled. And while he appears to speak with great clarity and direction in group huddles, the message never seems to translate.

Seibold must remember he is a teacher, and his students are mostly uneducated in one sense or another. Often when players talk about Wayne Bennett they mention that a) he backs them and b) he just tells them to do their thing. He may have a gameplan but it is never complicated. Wayne Bennett, Des Hasler, Craig Bellamy and other recently successful coaches operate much the same; they man-manage, they support, they come in and generally evolve teams over long-term periods, rather than short ones; constantly making subtle tweaks.

My rant reminded me of a thing I read a few weeks ago

Why are there lecturers/teachers who are very smart but don't have good teaching skills?

Answer (1 of 18): Just because a person is an expert in a particular subject matter doesn’t mean he or she will be a good teacher that can impart knowledge and use good teaching skills. These are separate concepts. I can share a personal example using my own family. I have a brother who has his P...

www.quora.com

Keep your optimism, I don't want to ruin the fun too much!
But also people shouldn't sell themselves to the idea that intellegent people are more capable than themselves.

Thanks for the considered rant h2727!
Few things.
1. The Souths players got on well with him and perfectly understood what he was trying to do with them. Hence, Coach of the Year.
2. I keep reading that in the modern game (hate that term) that it's the assistants who have to have the great relationships with the players because the head coach has so much more on his plate.
3. Still unconvinced of the perceived intelligence of DCE (I say that as a fellow smart person 😉)