DCE, Turbo and Seibold

[BOZO]

With DCE I think people confuse being polite and reasonably well spoken with having footy smarts. Foran is a smarter player than DCE, in that he makes the right decisions at the right time more than DCE.

I'm sure Manly didnt give him all the guidance that he should've been getting but he's had several different coaches at club level and at representative level and he hasn't fundamentally changed. So I don't think Seibold is going to change much on that front.

DCE and Foran are different players

DCE is more Dynamic

I have seen smart moves by both DCE and Foran

To win a close game you need to be smart enough to make the right final play and DCE has won many games for Manky

A DCE Match winning game

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

Good to hear Tommy wasn't injured doing the test.

Actually he was. He suffered a suspected broken finger nail.

 

[QueefRichards]

DCE and Foran are different players

DCE is more Dynamic

I have seen smart moves by both DCE and Foran

I agree but DCE makes more dumb moves on field than Foran.

To win a close game you need to be smart enough to make the right final play and DCE has won many games for Manky

A DCE Match winning game

Attempting a field goal in the 80th minute with scores level isn't an example of "footy smarts" - every single halfback in the competition would make that decision in that scenario. That just comes down to the players ability to kick field goals. It's not the same thing.

 

[BOZO]

I agree but DCE makes more dumb moves on field than Foran.



Attempting a field goal in the 80th minute with scores level isn't an example of "footy smarts" - every single halfback in the competition would make that decision in that scenario. That just comes down to the players ability to kick field goals. It's not the same thing.

YOu have to be smart enough to be at the right place at the right time and you also have to handle the high pressure play and DCE has handled those qualities in the many games he has won for us

We will agree to disagree and
The only way to a Manly Premiership win is with DCE

 

[ManlyTragic]

Dce will be 34 next year. At some stage his pace off the mark will start to diminish as all humans do from about that age.
He needs to mould himself into a more structured controlling half the next 3 years.

Can’t he go to hooker like Toovey and Des did?

Just sayin’

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

First thing I need him to do is put Jake to prop. Then we can worry about the fancies.

110%

Jake to Prop, then let the likes of Bully , Condon , Dias or whomever fight for the lock position.

 

[Jerry1]

A backline with

Turbo
Garrick
Koula
Parker/Tupilotu/Weekes
Saab
Schuster
DCE

Should be one of the better in the competition.

So it really comes down to the pack. Ideally as you say some mongrel fowards to be added

Jake aside - Apart from Guac & perhaps Josh Aloiai we don't have any NRL standard forwards.

 

[robbiea]

Dce will be 34 next year. At some stage his pace off the mark will start to diminish as all humans do from about that age.
He needs to mould himself into a more structured controlling half the next 3 years.

3 years ,that really stings !!

 

[Johnno74]

First thing I need him to do is put Jake to prop. Then we can worry about the fancies.

Been saying it for ages beating that drum

 

[Johnno74]

110%

Jake to Prop, then let the likes of Bully , Condon , Dias or whomever fight for the lock position.

Been saying it for ages

 

[Lyonstomenzies]

With DCE I think people confuse being polite and reasonably well spoken with having footy smarts. Foran is a smarter player than DCE, in that he makes the right decisions at the right time more than DCE.

I'm sure Manly didnt give him all the guidance that he should've been getting but he's had several different coaches at club level and at representative level and he hasn't fundamentally changed. So I don't think Seibold is going to change much on that front.

A former Manly player whom is regarded as one of the smartest, well educated players to have played, considers DCE highly intelligent. I trust this player as he also helped many players of his generation not blow their earnings and invest wisely. He’s a very respected great of our club so I’ll trust his opinions on DCE.

 

[Bearfax]

If we're talking of intellect, not football nous, I would suggest DCE is quite smart. Anyone who can take on the responsibility of the players representation to the NRL is not going to be a dummy. And if you listen to his comments, they are well constructed, balanced and the language is reasonably complex without being pompous. I would say he has a marked higher intellect than normal, and at least in his presentation a noted common sense approach to issues. That doesnt make him a great footballer. That's another issue. It does however show he's got the smarts

 

[manlyfan76]

Oh and just like that I flip on Silvertails after a few days break and can't stop myself from having a say

Good on you for optimism and yes what you said in theory sounds great. Hear me out because this isn't a usual rant lamenting the club and your optimism is not completely unwarranted. Afterall, there is definitely a possibility that things do infact 'work' as they should in theory.

But to be devils advocate, intellegence can be incredibly misleading is team work environments. I hate to say this, but I can say it behind the anonymity of being online, but I myself am rather 'intellegent'.

I also have ADHD. Why would I say that? Well, when it comes to explaining my ideas to people in words it often comes out like newspeak. Tangents, ambiguities, metaphors, disjointed descriptions. Sometimes I get it just right and explain things simple. But a majority of the time I have to step away, do something myself and show them a physical example of what I meant before it is clear. Basically, intellegence is not really an indicator of effectiveness as a 'coach'. It is relatability and mastery of communicating things simply that makes any good orator or mentor; be it a lecturer at uni, a primary school teacher, or a coach. That's why I back Des more than most.

It's why some professors may be able to answer any physics question with ease themselves, but leave a trail of disenchanted, confused students behind them as they go about forwarding their knowledge.

While Seibold may be intellegent, and DCE may be intellegent, that does not correlate to success in team sport, which requires a significant amount of teaching skills and man/class managemnent. It seemed just as people out of favour with Seibold where trying to describe him as being egotistical and a poor mentor, those that worked alongside him at Fox League and some sympathetic media personalities tried to portray him as an intellect, describing that 'he has learned' from his Broncos catastrophe.

You're right to side with either portrayal, but I will refuse to accept that intellegence is enough to be a good coach. I know that he impresses Penn, but also it must be said corporate types tend to be easily gripped by percieved intellegence and promise.

DCE is another victim. As we know with him, his intellegence is best applied within simple frameworks, where he has time to properly think and effect. When he is too heavily relied upon he becomes scrambled. And while he appears to speak with great clarity and direction in group huddles, the message never seems to translate.

Seibold must remember he is a teacher, and his students are mostly uneducated in one sense or another. Often when players talk about Wayne Bennett they mention that a) he backs them and b) he just tells them to do their thing. He may have a gameplan but it is never complicated. Wayne Bennett, Des Hasler, Craig Bellamy and other recently successful coaches operate much the same; they man-manage, they support, they come in and generally evolve teams over long-term periods, rather than short ones; constantly making subtle tweaks.

My rant reminded me of a thing I read a few weeks ago

Why are there lecturers/teachers who are very smart but don't have good teaching skills?

Answer (1 of 18): Just because a person is an expert in a particular subject matter doesn’t mean he or she will be a good teacher that can impart knowledge and use good teaching skills. These are separate concepts. I can share a personal example using my own family. I have a brother who has his P...

www.quora.com

Keep your optimism, I don't want to ruin the fun too much!
But also people shouldn't sell themselves to the idea that intellegent people are more capable than themselves.

All very good points, with DCE I'd suggest that stress is what makes him seem headless sometimes. He clearly knows what can work but when we are struggling and stress is high I see intelligence is always diminished.


I say this as someone who is not intelligent yet less so every year.

 

[DieHardManlyFan]

First thing I need him to do is put Jake to prop. Then we can worry about the fancies.

Who would you replace him with though? Would need someone who can offer the defence Jurbo does in the middle.

 

[Budgie]

Who would you replace him with though? Would need someone who can offer the defence Jurbo does in the middle.

Above my pay grade

 

[globaleagle]

.....I heard a story that the NSW Blues did a few mind training sessions where players touched a sequence of light as they flashed to build hand eye coordination. Tommy studied the light patterns and memorised the sequence. The team were amazed at his intelligence.....

 

[Rocky]

Jake aside - Apart from Guac & perhaps Josh Aloiai we don't have any NRL standard forwards.

Agreed

Jake and Guaca are legitmate rep or future rep forwards
Aloiai is a good first grade prop (when he's available)
Paseka has teased us for years but perhaps can still get there.

The rest are really just depth type guys at best.

 

[Jerry1]

Agreed

Jake and Guaca are legitmate rep or future rep forwards
Aloiai is a good first grade prop (when he's available)
Paseka has teased us for years but perhaps can still get there.

The rest are really just depth type guys at best.

Ahh Paseka.. Has nearly everything a forward needs to be a success but lacks the most important factor - mongrel. Another T-rex I fear.

 

[Briza]

Can’t he go to hooker like Toovey and Des did?

Just sayin’

I said it several yers ago and i stand by it, DCE is not a Play maker he's a Hooker playing out of position.

 

[mave]

I said it several yers ago and i stand by it, DCE is not a Play maker he's a Hooker playing out of position.

Would have been the best #9 in the comp 5-6 years ago, and held that status for a few years, before he slowed down, and before he started protecting himself defensively.