Anti-vaxx, masks, Covid, freedom, 5G etc

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lsz

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Responding with a general answer, but thanks to Simon, SER8 and Woodsie for their considered responses. Having read your responses I’ll speak again against lockdowns, masks and medical coercion.

It might be said: we should have drawn the line at seatbelts; if we had done we may not be here today. Personally, I believe the idea of protecting others by not breathing on them should remain a social concept, not a legal one. Once we cross that line, it opens the path to a very dystopian future.

Does that sound hyperbolic? And yet that is precisely what lockdowns and mask mandates are controlling. Crossing this line moves us toward a biosecurity paradigm. The question is, does the current situation actually warrant this?

Simon mentions a guy wanting to get a steak. And of course I believe someone should be able to get a steak if he wants, but this type of argument attempts to minimise the very real societal damage that lockdowns do. While the billionaires multiply their wealth many times over, and educated professionals work from home, the real brunt of the damage is felt by service workers, the unemployed, the self-employed, and small and medium sized business. As many businesses go under, who steps in to take their place? Corporations, who have the capital to weather the storm and the insider channels to government support.

While I personally think it’s naïve to think that those ultra-rich and connected individuals with the greatest agency to enact their will only ever do so by legal means, or if not legal, at least using clear steps that are easy for the common person to discern, speculation of such matters is unnecessary when assessing the costs and benefits of the interventions.

With regard to masks, we now have abundant data from pretty much every country on the planet. There is no correlation between mask compliance and the spread of the virus. Early in the pandemic, there was a meme around that we know masks work because countries with a natural tendency to wear masks seemed to have lower case levels. That’s no longer true. For example Thailand has high mask compliance and rapid spread. South Korea has almost total mask compliance and is apparently getting a new wave. In regional side by side analysis a different US states with and without mask mandates the curves are remarkably similar. There is no discernable ‘signal’ in the data anywhere to see an effect after mandates have been introduced or relaxed. To say WHO says they are effective is not a satisfactory argument. It’s a logical fallacy called appeal to authority. There are numerous studies on the effects of face masks to reduce respiratory infection by the general public, see some of the main ones collected here: Are Face Masks Effective? The Evidence.

I’d also like to add on masks: In my opinion it’s self-evident that they don’t work and the reasons why seem obvious. Firstly (and crucially) most of the air passes around and through the mask. But going deeper; what moisture that is captured by the mask quick evaporates due to the temperature of the face. In a sick person this moisture could include larger droplets. Once the moisture has evaporated, the smaller particles may even be blown away from the mask, the mask having effectively nebulized the larger droplets (which would have fallen to the ground) into a longer lasting aerosol.

It might surprise you to know the fatality rate of covid is not 2 or 3% but 0.2 or 0.3%. Here is a detailed global study from WHO’s own website: https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.265892.pdf It’s 0.05% in under 70s

Lastly, vaccines. Touchy subject. Personally I would prefer not to take a medical intervention if I think it is unwarranted. I’ve taken vaccines in the past, but I’m uncomfortable with this particular situation. The vaccines are new technology. Especially the mRNA ones. There’s some risk associated with the spike proteins. I think it’s a personal choice. This is why I mentioned the principle of informed consent in the previous post. I personally believe, according to the evidence, that the dangers of covid 19 have been exaggerated by the media and governments of the world (again, speculating why is irrelevant to my argument). As such my risk assessment is: don’t take the vaccine. I really hope it doesn’t come to full vaccine passport segregation in our society, but if it does we are on a frightening road. Consider reading this account, by an educated German, about how the totalitarian situation evolved in Germany bit by bit. How he became a NAZI basically. It’s really very, very interesting. We all have our own cognitive biases and you may not see the same things as me. But I unfortunately see some similarities to the current situation. They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 by Milton Mayer, an excerpt, 2017 edition

It is funny how many people with different views consistently ask others to "do their research".

As an example in the above you mention "With regard to masks, we now have abundant data from pretty much every country on the planet. There is no correlation between mask compliance and the spread of the virus.".


The source you site is Are Face Masks Effective? The Evidence.

I thought that was interesting point of view and different to anything I had heard so I would check out who these guys are.

It took all of two minutes to find this

When reached by Reuters for comment, SPR said that the social media posts misrepresented their analysis and that they "do not claim or suggest that masks increase cases, nor do we suggest people shouldn't wear masks."

 
Feast yer eyes ..
Tipping Comp 2021
As of 5 hours ago: "There are 182 COVID-19 cases in hospital, including 54 in intensive care and 22 on ventilators. The Dr Chant stressed the ICU cases were young, with two in their teens, eight in their 20s, four in their 30s and three in their 40s."

You calling deaths before they occur now ... and are you just assuming the 17 younger patients have no underlying medical conditions ... good way to win an argument I guess ... but on those figures it would appear the over 65's are still the most at risk by a very good margin ..
12.46%
Scarcely worth mentioning.

Now now now darling ... we were discussing the comparative death rates for the different age groups ... for you to smuggly suggest that I am somehow diminishing the importance or value of any tragic death is below you ... and simply pathetic.
 
Feast yer eyes ..
Tipping Comp 2021
It is funny how many people with different views consistently ask others to "do their research".

I did a science degree ... back before electricity .... and in the beginning of the pandemic I started to read some of the published papers on Covid and the types of vaccines being researched ... after reading half a page I quickly came to the conclusion in the nearly 50 year since my education ended, a whole lot of new words and things have been invented ... I had no idea what they were saying .... but I am encouraged by the fact that housewives and unemployed flamethrowers around the world are able to do their own research and become expert on the matter ...
 

lsz

First Grader
Staff member
I did a science degree ... back before electricity .... and in the beginning of the pandemic I started to read some of the published papers on Covid and the types of vaccines being researched ... after reading half a page I quickly came to the conclusion in the nearly 50 year since my education ended, a whole lot of new words and things have been invented ... I had no idea what they were saying .... but I am encouraged by the fact that housewives and unemployed flamethrowers around the world are able to do their own research and become expert on the matter ...

What is lacking is the ability / desire to look past a source which you agree with
 
First Grader
What is lacking is the ability / desire to look past a source which you agree with
and reading more than one study. Reading a study is one thing, putting it into perspective is another. How many times have to read a study claiming this and that, then you read another 3 more studies on the same topic that come up with a totally different, opposite conclusion.
 
Touch football but with more injuries
Premium Member
It is funny how many people with different views consistently ask others to "do their research".

As an example in the above you mention "With regard to masks, we now have abundant data from pretty much every country on the planet. There is no correlation between mask compliance and the spread of the virus.".


The source you site is Are Face Masks Effective? The Evidence.

I thought that was interesting point of view and different to anything I had heard so I would check out who these guys are.

It took all of two minutes to find this

When reached by Reuters for comment, SPR said that the social media posts misrepresented their analysis and that they "do not claim or suggest that masks increase cases, nor do we suggest people shouldn't wear masks."

Who do you trust???
 
Bencher
and reading more than one study. Reading a study is one thing, putting it into perspective is another. How many times have to read a study claiming this and that, then you read another 3 more studies on the same topic that come up with a totally different, opposite conclusion.
I’d say, look into who funded the study, the objectives of the study and the credibility of the person/s or organisation behind the study.
 
Touch football but with more injuries
Premium Member
Probably a lot of people don't realise that cops have the power to bug your house and tap your phones for 6 months and not even tell you about it afterwards! All this stuff has been in for years, the govt is always granting extra powers to police in the name of countering terrorism and organised crime.
And they use these powers on journalists, but only ones who call out the liberal party. Go figure
 
Bencher
and this i feel is huge reason why mis-information is spread. People never really read the actual facts or interpret the studies correctly, they just read a headline. Very good article.

I have enjoyed reading some of these articles, keep em coming. Far cry from the crap that gets thrown around on facebook and instagram that so many seem to form an opinion on. does my head in.
I’m not sure getting involved in this thread is a smart idea, but since you have enjoyed reading some articles and would like to keep reading, I will throw this up for you to consider and hopefully the source of the content is an acceptable individual to give due consideration.

Nobel Prize Winner Warns Vaccines Facilitate Development of Deadlier COVID Variants, Urges Public to Reject Jabs - The New American

 
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Grizzly old fart
Does anyone ever stop for morning tea on this site? Mind you at the moment you cant sit in a cafeteria for that so I guess its in the secure little space we have left to move about in, aye. :party:
 
First Grader
I’m not sure getting involved in this thread is a smart idea, but since you have enjoyed reading some articles and would like to keep reading, I will throw this up for you to consider and hopefully the source of the content is an acceptable individual to give due consideration.

Nobel Prize Winner Warns Vaccines Facilitate Development of Deadlier COVID Variants, Urges Public to Reject Jabs - The New American

NOBEL PRIZE WINNER WARNS VACCINES FACILITATE DEVELOPMENT OF DEADLIER COVID VARIANTS, URGES PUBLIC TO REJECT JABS​

by Veronika Kyrylenko May 20, 2021
Nobel Prize Winner Warns Vaccines Facilitate Development of Deadlier COVID Variants, Urges Public to Reject Jabs
France’s Luc Montagnier / AP Images
Luc Montagnier, a French virologist and recipient of the 2008 Nobel Prize in Medicine for his discovery of the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), has recently exposed the dangers of the COVID-19 vaccines. Montagnier discussed the issue in an interview with Pierre Barnérias of Hold-Up Media earlier this month, which was exclusively translated from French into English for RAIR Foundation USA.
The vaccines don’t stop the virus, argues the prominent virologist, they do the opposite — they “feed the virus,” and facilitate its development into stronger and more transmittable variants. These new virus variants will be more resistant to vaccination and may cause more health implications than their “original” versions.
During the interview, professor Montagnier referred to the vaccine program for the coronavirus as an “unacceptable mistake.” Mass vaccinations are a “scientific error as well as a medical error,” he said. “The history books will show that, because it is the vaccination that is creating the variants.” Montagnier explained that “there are antibodies, created by the vaccine,” forcing the virus to “find another solution” or die. This is where the variants are created. It is the variants that “are a production and result from the vaccination.” (See link for article)
_______________________
UPDATE
Montagnier isn’t alone. A French medical doctor is also stating that these injections are causing new infections and deaths and that the evidence is overwhelming. She also calls for a moratorium on them.

UPDATE: MONTAGNIER HAS BEEN PROVEN TO BE CORRECT.​

Nations participating in the “Zero COVID” movement with draconian edicts and mass vaccination campaigns have had explosions in COVID-19 cases across the board.


Comment
Viruses and bacteria are adaptive. This concept used to be widely understood, but since this truth doesn’t fit with the accepted narrative that we should all fear a killer virus, it’s ignored, by our corrupt public health ‘authorities’ and the bought-out media. It’s an inconvenient truth that these COVID injections are causing the mutant (and typically more severe) strains cropping up all over the world. But, we were warned.
Antibody Dependent Enhancement (ADE) is a very real thing we’ve been warned about. ADE occurs in SARS-CoV1, MERS, HIV, Zika, and Dengue Virus vaccines, and data confirms it occurs in SARS-CoV-2, or COVID-19.
Montagnier states,

BUT RATHER THAN ADMITTING THIS FACT, OUR CORRUPT PUBLIC HEALTH ‘AUTHORITIES’ BLAME IT ON COVID. THEY DON’T WANT TO LOSE THEIR REVENUE STREAM FROM THE INJECTIONS AND THEY CERTAINLY DON’T WANT TO ADMIT FAULT.

They are also now rigging the system bylowering PCR cyclesjust for the “vaccinated” to try and downplay the fact fully “vaccinated” people are testing positive and contracting COVID-19. Further, they disingenuously call these “break-through” cases, which is very reminiscent of the fraudulent PTLDS moniker for Lyme patients. Words mean things and whole paradigms are constructed using these restrictive words. It’s a slight of hand the CDC continuesto use and get away with.
The article then goes on to delineate Montagnier’s letter calling for suspension of COVID mass vaccination due to:
  1. Serious short term side effects
  2. Lack of vaccine protection
  3. Competition between natural antibodies and vaccine antibodies
  4. Antibodies by vaccination will lead to variants/mutants. The virus will always win.
  5. Risk of viral RNA into the human genome
Last year Montagnier showed at least half a dozen mini-sequences of the HIV virus in the SARS-CoV2 genome. This information was published under the title “Synthetic origin of Covid-19 and Evolution.” Montagnier believes the coronavirus escaped when researchers were trying to develop a vaccine against HIV.
Montagnier is far from alone.
  • Recently vaccine specialist Vanden Bossche also called for a halt to mass vaccination programs and states they actually drive viral immune escape. He states that countries that have undertaken mass vaccination, (UK, Israel, USA), will initially experience a drop in infectivity rates, but they will inevitably suffer from a steep incline in severe COVID cases in the weeks to come.
  • The group Doctors For COVID Ethics also recently wrote a paper where they state COVID injections are “needless, ineffective and dangerous.” They delivered notices of liability for COVID-19 “vaccine” harms and deaths to every member of the European parliament.
  • ICAN has delivered emergency petitions to halt clinical trials until all adverse reactions are tracked.
  • Children’s Health Defense just filed a citizen petition to the FDA to revoke Emergency Use Authorizations for existing COVID vaccines and refrain from approving and licensing them
  • America’s Frontline Doctors just gave a motion for a temporary restraining order against the use of COVID vaccines in children

Hopefully it’s clear that despite the continued drumming of propaganda, there are concerned experts giving red flags​

I guess if you believe this in the coming weeks there is going to be a huge wave of deaths and severe side effects from the vaccine! Dam, just had my shot yesterday. Too late for me now. Hope i see out the year, Manly can take this thing out!
 
First Grader

 
Grizzly old fart



All vaccines can potentially kill. Its just that the disease it stops can kill far far more readily. The blood clot issue with AstraZeneca for example has been measured to date as being lethal to about one in 100,000 to 250,000. Vaccines are not the disease so they cant create variants. Only the disease can mutate into a variant. Good points Simon
 
First Grader
Freedom of movement obviously stopped by the lcokdown order, not sure what you mean about the others. You aren't forced to get vaccinated?

Not yet, but any donkey can see that is where we are headed. Do you think we are moving toward a global banking system - a universal currency?
 
First Grader
Probably a lot of people don't realise that cops have the power to bug your house and tap your phones for 6 months and not even tell you about it afterwards! All this stuff has been in for years, the govt is always granting extra powers to police in the name of countering terrorism and organised crime.

So-called civil liberties have never been a right, during these discussions several people are keen to say we've got a right to this or that, I don't know if they mean a moral right but I doubt there are as many legal rights as people think, and he ones that are there will be revoked as soon as the ruling class decides that is necessary!

As for making an issue out of the pandemic - the lockdown is unreasonable for 2 reasons, first because it should have been a hell of a lot stronger and quicker, Gladys delayed it and the genie got out and now can't be reined in.
Second because it is a disgrace to tell people they can't work as it is not in the public health interest (which it isn't) without giving them compensation for lost wages. But our economic system doesn't have 'the right to work' so why act like it does now?
Reminds me a little of a certain moustached European dictator who bewitched a nation with propaganda last century. We a know how that ended.
 
First Grader
and this i feel is huge reason why mis-information is spread. People never really read the actual facts or interpret the studies correctly, they just read a headline. Very good article.

I have enjoyed reading some of these articles, keep em coming. Far cry from the crap that gets thrown around on facebook and instagram that so many seem to form an opinion on. does my head in.
But who decides which author is writing truthfully? Human history is saturated in the bloodshed caused by politicians and their self seving lies.
 
First Grader
But who decides which author is writing truthfully? Human history is saturated in the bloodshed caused by politicians and their self seving lies.
Fair point, I'm more talking about the blatant false information put on social media, face book etc. The ones where they have used a study, then totally twisted it, you than get hundreds, if not thousands of viewers reading these bold headings or statements without getting the full story and basing their opinions on that! That was more my point, but that is the world we live in now right. Everyone just has to do their own research and way up the pros and cons and decide for themselves what is the best course of action for themselves and for their family. Who they choose to believe or follow will ultimately just come down to who they think is telling the truth or has their best interests at heart . This is not something new, we have been dealing with media agenda, governments, conspiracies, cover ups, big pharma, extremists etc for years. They all have an agenda to a degree. I just try and choose the path I'm most comfortable with.
 
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First Grader
I believe there might be 1% of posters on here who do that. Sad really, because it is the ONLY way a person can acquire true knowledge. Anything else is just a biased opinion of little substance
I personally try and do this, but agree its hard. That's why I don't mind having a sensible discussion with someone who has different opinions, cause it can make you question what you thought was correct, or make you think twice. But then sometimes it can get overwhelming and trying to weed through actual helpful facts and studies and just rubbish. Sometimes I just leave the phone at home and go for a bush walk with the family or mountain bike ride at the back of say Belrose in the bush and get away and clear my head. Gets a bit much sometimes.

Thank god footy is still on and Manly is winning, that's a good distraction!
 
Grizzly old fart
Nothing wrong with protesting and having a different point of view as long as its not done at the risk of others. In fact its essential to have such people as anti-vaxers and those opposed to the restrictions because it makes us all examine more carefully our own positions. Having opposition is an essential part of learning.
 
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