Watmough Unleashes On DCE

[Woodsie]

The term standing over is a strong one. And highly doubt the extremity of the situation was even remotely close to that. watmough stated he had a conversation with him. Nor did he insist cherry take a pay cut. Cherry was the one that held the team and club ransom in that instance for more money, not because he was losing it. It appears he would tried to walk and not turn up if he didn't get what he wanted, but was happy to sign the deal in the first place funnily enough. Watmough bled manly, cherry does not. Cherry is our captain. I don't condone watmoughs choices of lifestyle or what he has apparently done or not done. But in this matter, my opinion and perspective is favorably in watmoughs corner. His delivery may be untimely and harsh. But it's clearly because his passionate about the club and what it stands for in his eyes

Calling a young bloke a ****wit to his face because he takes his managers advice rather than yours would rank as standing over ...

And Choc .... for all his services .... was on $900k in his last year at Manly ..... hardly a charity case, and big money for a 2nd rower ..... and without doing the Maths, probably more of a % of the cap than DCE's current contract .....

 

[KNUCKLES]

OK, I see what you're saying.

Other words... Well I wasn't there so I don't know what was said or done or the severity of it all but I guess someone more on the "DCE side" of things would suggest... "re-negotiation"

?



I'm standing over....
A four leaf clover....

and then shot it

All a matter of context I suppose.
P.s I'm glad I'm not a four leaf clover

 

[KNUCKLES]

Calling a young bloke a ****wit to his face because he takes his managers advice rather than yours would rank as standing over ...

And Choc .... for all his services .... was on $900k in his last year at Manly ..... hardly a charity case, and big money for a 2nd rower ..... and without doing the Maths, probably more of a % of the cap than DCE's current contract .....

No sorry mate I don't.. I see it as an opinion. Maybe an act of frustration, anger etc. Standing over to me is when your using physical prowess to force people's hands into doing something they don't want to do. I'm not saying your wrong. But I'm not saying your right either. I believe choc deserved the money at the end of his career for what he provided the club don't you?? It's common knowledge cherry thought he deserved alot more before it potentially may have been deserved my opinion. (The size of the upgrade) i do understand where your coming from though although there two sides of the fence. we may be on either side of it on this one woodsie. Matter of opinion I suppose. But I'm more than happy to debate the situation haha

 

[manly al]

No doubt quite a number of key players in that very successful period that included and encompassed that premiership era did accept and play for less money that was apparently available at some rival clubs but also really think that this has been overstated quite a bit as well . Taking into account manager"s fees and then applicable taxation obligations , any pay differences would have been relatively marginal at best . Pretty sure that in Chock"s , Giffty , Foz , Snake and Matai "s case that it was not that short of what alternative offers were at those relevant times . For instance in Snake and Foz case , around the 650 k figure and even Chock was on around the 450 k at the time . [ but certainly at a latter stage when Matai was offered that big contract offer with the Warriors , and was denied by Manly ., that definitely did represent a lower pay level to have to stay ] Also quite sure that again in D C E :s case that when he was bought in to replace Hodko in 2011 that it was on 3 year , 130 k per season and any improved player in his situation would then expect an improved contract .[ Maybe 50 or 75 k when he was previously at the Sunny coast feeder club in 2010 ] Anyway it has been in the public domain for many years now concerning all of the machinations and internal interplays and the Brad Arthur influence and so on that all took place in the club at that time: and Tooves and the club "s genuine attempts to reconcile matters . So really it does Chock zero credit and overall standing to continue to rehash the matter now and despite of course even taking into account Chock"s great contribution playing wise to Manly . Again the most noticeable and praise worthy conduct in recent days has again been Tooves very dignified and sensible position on the whole matter ,

 

[Woodsie]

No sorry mate I don't.. I see it as an opinion. Maybe an act of frustration, anger etc. Standing over to me is when your using physical prowess to force people's hands into doing something they don't want to do. I'm not saying your wrong. But I'm not saying your right either. I believe choc deserved the money at the end of his career for what he provided the club don't you?? It's common knowledge cherry thought he deserved alot more before it potentially may have been deserved my opinion. (The size of the upgrade) i do understand where your coming from though although there two sides of the fence. we may be on either side of it on this one woodsie. Matter of opinion I suppose. But I'm more than happy to debate the situation haha

I guess my main issue ... ignoring the actual event .... is the fact that Choc and/or others would feel or believe they were entitled to a) even know what figures a team mate was negotiating for and ... b) comment on or try to influence his decision to take less .....

 

[globaleagle]

I hope dce doesn't respond to choc's interview. I would further like him to front the presser and when the inevitable question arises say:

I have no comment on the matter.

When the follow up questions flow... answer each one with a straight faced (but polite) I have no comment , or simply 'no comment'.

Eventually wierdlerts head would melt Indiana Jones movie style.



Do Captains really need to front pressers anyway? I see plenty of sports when it is just the coach. And by plenty, I mean like 3 or 4.

 

[KNUCKLES]

I guess my main issue ... ignoring the actual event .... is the fact that Choc and/or others would feel or believe they were entitled to a) even know what figures a team mate was negotiating for and ... b) comment on or try to influence his decision to take less .....

Yeah fair enough and good point. I think with a) there would be plenty of sources that may have loose lips or just like to gossip, if not possibly cherry told people himself. I don't find money a personal thing, but if it is to cherry and watmough was snooping for Intel that would be bad form. B) well I think thats my main issue and where we may be separated on it. I don't think choc was telling him to take less, he signed a contract he was happy with 6 months prior.. Salary cap would of worked around that and it obviously messed with the dynamic of the squad.

 

[davohan123]

Feel for DCE here

Choc should have said nothing..can I go out in the public an air all the dirty laundry from my previous employer no way, if I did I would be sued for defamation charges.

All work places have people not getting along with each other that is life, but we choose to look past things and get on with work life.

One final thing I really fear for DCE's mental health...you can't keep having so much s**t said about you and not affect you. I support DCE 100% on this as what Choc just said sounds like work Place bullying which I have personally had done to me.

 

[brad]

Feel for DCE here

Chic should have said nothing..can I go out in the public an air all the dirty laundry from my previous employer no way, if I did I would be sued for defamation charges.

All work places have people not getting along with each other that is life, but we choose to look past things and get on with work life.

One final thing I really fear for DCE's mental health...you can't keep having so much s**t said about you and not affect you. I support DCE 100% on this as what Choc just said sounds like work Place bullying which I have personally had done to me.

Thats it mate its the mental health thing that worries me . Fukh me he hasn't murdered anyone and im sure whatever some people think , Dce would have caring family and friends to guide him thru this . For someone's sake lets hope it doesn't come back to haunt them.

 

[conanu]

Behaving like a petulant child is a good understanding of the media? Saying that you are 'enjoying' a public contract process where you have committed to another club, yet are stringing along the supporters of the club you play for, is a sound demonstration of sincerity? Refusing to train until your contract is upgraded again is a show of sincerity? The booze and nose candy crew you speak of led the way to four grand final appearances, and year on end successful results. Personally if someone chooses to go to a strip joint, rightly that is there prerogative however, the inference that he is this clean cut family man that goes homes every night may not be completely accurate. Joel Thompson has been his teammate for less than a year, give him time, and clearly Buhrer's memory is fading, given that Cherry-Evans attempted to stick fingers into his eyes

**** off Tom

 

[lsz]

The bigger question....

Does this thread now belong in the Cherrygraph thread as a consolidated tirbute to this dumpster fire situation

 

[Ben]

Calling a young bloke a ****wit to his face because he takes his managers advice rather than yours would rank as standing over ...

And Choc .... for all his services .... was on $900k in his last year at Manly ..... hardly a charity case, and big money for a 2nd rower ..... and without doing the Maths, probably more of a % of the cap than DCE's current contract .....

That was a back ended deal keep in mind. They all took cuts to keep us successful for as long as they did

 

[conanu]

The term standing over is a strong one. And highly doubt the extremity of the situation was even remotely close to that. watmough stated he had a conversation with him. Nor did he insist cherry take a pay cut. Cherry was the one that held the team and club ransom in that instance for more money, not because he was losing it. It appears he would tried to walk and not turn up if he didn't get what he wanted, but was happy to sign the deal in the first place funnily enough. Watmough bled manly, cherry does not. Cherry is our captain. I don't condone watmoughs choices of lifestyle or what he has apparently done or not done. But in this matter, my opinion and perspective is favorably in watmoughs corner. His delivery may be untimely and harsh. But it's clearly because his passionate about the club and what it stands for in his eyes

Watmough is passionate about Anthony Watmough & that is where it begins and ends with him. Saying things like “I looked after him, he didn’t want for anything” what the hell does that mean? DCE was unfortunately the first of the next generation of player that the managers control. He was a serious rising star and had nearly every club throwing offers at him after the 2011 GF. So he wanted what he could get on the open market. It was the price of success for Manly. It was a massive gamble for DCE to stay on 80k per year whilst playing for Aus, Qld and winning GF’s. What if he got a knee injury and didn’t recover well, who would sort him then?. DCE may have been a little harsh in negotiations but that is the modern day player. Inglis, papali, tedesco, milford all signed with new clubs then backflipped but no one talks about them. In fact they all play origin.

So Toovey was an arsehole for moving on 3 players who didnt see out the next season with the clubs they signed with on big money. So if this played out the way Choc wanted, DCE would have got 80k while Watmough, G. Stewart and Foran all on big money back ended deals would have all dramatically broke down in more ways than one in the very next year and Manly would have had over 2 million tied up in broken players watching from the stands.

He also forgets that Foran had only one more season in 1st grade than DCE and was on around the 500k mark that DCE was not allowed to get, why was he more deserving? Because he was in Watmoughs clique thats why.

End of the day Watmough is a trailer trash ex parra botox loon, that could have been the most loved player ever to play for the Sea Eagles, unfortunately for him he is an embarrassment to the club and himself and regardless of wether or not DCE is a ****wit Watmough has broke the number 1 rule “you don’t dog the boys” by doing this he has effected every Manly fan and blokes like Tom and Jake. All for what? Because he loves the club & Jackson Hastings? Pfft please.

 

[Moops]

How come it is just the pro-DCE crowd that know the full story and the imbecile Watmough supporters know nothing? I would take one Watmough over ten DCE's any day of the week. Maybe I should include more swearing in my posts to be more credible/intimidating?!

 

[conanu]

How come it is just the pro-DCE crowd that know the full story and the imbecile Watmough supporters know nothing? I would take one Watmough over ten DCE's any day of the week. Maybe I should include more swearing in my posts to be more credible/intimidating?!

Im not pro DCE and after listening to the podcast I can sympathize with Watmough to a degree, although he comes across as genuine he is actually extremely selfish. He said he hadn’t come out with it before because he didn’t want to hurt the club, but he was leaking it through Weirdler the whole time it was going on, and now he has waited till the club is at rock bottom to stick the boot into our captain that like him or not we are stuck with for at least another 4 years. Glen Stewart is the guy who got shafted the most out of all this and he has showed class and dignity throughout by not throwing everyone under the bus, even Brett Stewart showed class when he turned up for a farewell in uncomfortable circumstances. These guys will always be legends of the club. But make no mistake Watmough did this to get attention and plug his bar. Even in his playing days it was Watmough first and bugger everyone else regardless of him saying he took less money, Glen sounds like the bloke who is the hero of the club that was let down. They should have booted Watmough and kept Glen. I would love to know who the idiot was that pulled Glens contract after Watmough shot his mouth off, because he probably made the greatest error of judgement in the clubs history. Having a happy Glen and Brett Stewart teaching Jake and Tom would have been priceless right now. Love to see a Des with G Stewart coaching team at the club one day. Dreaming.

 

[HoldenV8]

So Toovey was an arsehole for moving on 3 players who didnt see out the next season with the clubs they signed with on big money. So if this played out the way Choc wanted, DCE would have got 80k while Watmough, G. Stewart and Foran all on big money back ended deals would have all dramatically broke down in more ways than one in the very next year and Manly would have had over 2 million tied up in broken players watching from the stands.

That is exactly the point. By 2014-15 both Choc and Gifty were basically on their last legs as players and the club knew that, hence Gift was only offered about $350k and Choc was only being offered one year when he wanted from memory three years. Both probably deserved better given the service they had given to the club and what they had achieved over that time, both playing for NSW and Australia as well as winning 2 premierships and playing 4 Grand Finals. But times were changing and league was becoming a business. The club really couldn't afford to have so much money tied up in players who's bodies were starting to break down fast.

Snake and Skivvy probably got away with it because as backs the theory probably was that their bodies hadn't taken the same punishment as Choc and Gifty in the forwards. But as we all know.....Brett's knees and hammies were just about shot and so were Steve's neck and shoulders.

One thing out of the podcast confirmed what I had been thinking since this all went down. Tooves was put on the Quantum side of the fence by the senior clique because he was the mouthpiece used to offer Gifty a reduced contract. For mine that was complete BS. Tooves was more neutral than anything, but as coach he was closest to the players and was used as Quantum's mouthpiece. Unfortunately it ultimately cost him his job because he was seen as being on that side of the fence. You know, the opposite one to the Penn's, ZtH and that senior player clique.....all of whom (the players) would actually be gone from the club within 12 months of Tooves getting sacked.

Tooves got the boot at the end of 2015. In 2016, Gift was on his way to Catalans after an injury riddled year at Souffs, Foran was into an injury riddled year with Doesn't-matta while Choc, after already spending a year there was forced into medical retirement to help their salary cap cheating arses. And 2016 was also the last year for Snake and Skivvy who sat out 2017 in medical retirement, though unlike with Choc at the Worms, the NRL didn't do us any favours and they were still counted under our cap....just like Big Head this year.

 

[conanu]

It is also funny that all of this could have been avoided if Keiran Foran agreed to a new deal straight away, but he was too busy being lured away by Brad Arthur & instead Of re-signing and giving the club the opportunity to let DCE go he created a panic then signed with Parra and the club ended up with no one and was forced to pay overs for DCE. Watmough conveniently mentions nothing about being lured away by Arthur. Sounds to me like Arthur undermined Toovey and got into the heads of the senior playing group because he knew he was going to Parra and needed to poach a couple of them. Arthur played a smart game but it spectacularly backfired on that ball bag and now he is in the grips of Karma.

 

[conanu]

That is exactly the point. By 2014-15 both Choc and Gifty were basically on their last legs as players and the club knew that, hence Gift was only offered about $350k and Choc was only being offered one year when he wanted from memory three years. Both probably deserved better given the service they had given to the club and what they had achieved over that time, both playing for NSW and Australia as well as winning 2 premierships and playing 4 Grand Finals. But times were changing and league was becoming a business. The club really couldn't afford to have so much money tied up in players who's bodies were starting to break down fast.

Snake and Skivvy probably got away with it because as backs the theory probably was that their bodies hadn't taken the same punishment as Choc and Gifty in the forwards. But as we all know.....Brett's knees and hammies were just about shot and so were Steve's neck and shoulders.

One thing out of the podcast confirmed what I had been thinking since this all went down. Tooves was put on the Quantum side of the fence by the senior clique because he was the mouthpiece used to offer Gifty a reduced contract. For mine that was complete BS. Tooves was more neutral than anything, but as coach he was closest to the players and was used as Quantum's mouthpiece. Unfortunately it ultimately cost him his job because he was seen as being on that side of the fence. You know, the opposite one to the Penn's, ZtH and that senior player clique.....all of whom (the players) would actually be gone from the club within 12 months of Tooves getting sacked.

Tooves got the boot at the end of 2015. In 2016, Gift was on his way to Catalans after an injury riddled year at Souffs, Foran was into an injury riddled year with Doesn't-matta while Choc, after already spending a year there was forced into medical retirement to help their salary cap cheating arses. And 2016 was also the last year for Snake and Skivvy who sat out 2017 in medical retirement, though unlike with Choc at the Worms, the NRL didn't do us any favours and they were still counted under our cap....just like Big Head this year.

After digesting it, it looks to me like Brad Arthur had a huge role to play in this whole debacle he was undermining Tooves and I am guessing Zorba was fanning the flames of discontent within the senior playing group because he was happy for it to reflect badly on the quantum side & tooves thinking Penn would soon be in control & not realising Brad Arthur was about to double cross him & the club. By the time Penn got in control Brad Arthur had them poached and the joint in tatters.

 

[HoldenV8]

After digesting it, it looks to me like Brad Arthur had a huge role to play in this whole debacle he was undermining Tooves and I am guessing Zorba was fanning the flames of discontent within the senior playing group because he was happy for it to reflect badly on the quantum side & tooves thinking Penn would soon be in control & not realising Brad Arthur was about to double cross him & the club. By the time Penn got in control Brad Arthur had them poached and the joint in tatters.

Correct. And Choc said in the podcast that he went there because he had worked well with Arthur at Manly. And Choc was used as the bait to get Foran. And remember, there was the rumour that still persists that Foran had actually signed with Doesn't-matta not long after the end of the 2014 season but the announcement was delayed until DCE announced that he had signed with the Titans. I don't know how much of that was Arthur or down to Foran who was angry at the club over the Gifty saga, but no doubt he was involved because Foran's signing was kept quiet.

 

[conanu]

Correct. And Choc said in the podcast that he went there because he had worked well with Arthur at Manly. And Choc was used as the bait to get Foran. And remember, there was the rumour that still persists that Foran had actually signed with Doesn't-matta not long after the end of the 2014 season but the announcement was delayed until DCE announced that he had signed with the Titans. I don't know how much of that was Arthur or down to Foran who was angry at the club over the Gifty saga, but no doubt he was involved because Foran's signing was kept quiet.

Yep, Arthur, Foran and Choc actually did more harm to Glen Stewart’s career and their legacy at Manly than Quantum, Toovey or DCE ever did and they did it to be petty and spiteful. With a stroke of a pen from Foran to stay would have meant DCE would have left and the legacy may have continued, albeit with about 5mil in back ended players seriously injured in the dugout watching us play against Tom and Jake at Newcastle.