Yep there are. That’s crazy ****.
But finding systems that are worse does not abrogate the state from the responsibility of doing their best to make theirs better.
Walker cleared to play.
- Thread starter bazeagle
- Start date
But finding systems that are worse does not abrogate the state from the responsibility of doing their best to make theirs better.
Terry Zarsoff
First Grader
Don’t be too hard on him. Coyne was a voice in the wilderness back in 1999, backing the notion that Manly should be awarded the 1997 title, when it became clear that some Newcastle players had taken performance enhancing drugs prior to the GF.
Bearfax
Grizzly old fart
There is no doubt on occasions deals are made, but usually they are to reduce sentences. Often its because the evidence for one charge is not sufficient and a deal is made to accept a lesser charge instead to avoid trial. I thought that was a possible scenario in the Walker case. Negotiations are handled certainly by clever solicitors but its fairly infrequent that a case would be dismissed if the police have sufficient evidence. Certainly in some cases where someone turns over and incriminates others, they get a lesser sentence. And if you plead guilty straight off you get a lesser sentence especially for a first offence. Certainly if an offender helps the police in some matters unrelated the police will consider reducing a charge. You are right to a degree, and look I'm sure on occasions money swaps hands. But in the vast majority of cases if the evidence is there, the police will proceed and the court will find them guilty. But I'm not altogether disputing what you are saying Narrabeen67. In fact with some of my clients who complain that they have seen something suspicious while they face the full wrath of the court, I state to them that on occasions justice is what you can afford.
But in the vast majority of cases mate, a guilty party will be found guilty if the evidence is sufficient. Take that from someone who has dealt with almost 10,000 people convicted in the courts..
No I don't believe that, I'd guess someone is having a lend of you if that's what you've been told.
A judge or magistrate who meets a defence lawyer and/or prosecutor before a trial to 'determine guilt or innocence' would be liable to go to jail for a very long time. And if you knew what judges and magistrates get paid... you may very well ask, why on earth would they expose themselves in such manner?
Yes of course there is the odd corrupt person, as in every field - and we've had former judge Marcus Einfeld jailed for perverting the course of justice, and back in the day there was the Kevin Humphreys case in which chief magistrate Murray Farquhar was jailed for corruption.
As for prosecutors and defence lawyers discussing a case before trial, parliament has made that mandatory for any serious charges, it's simply part of the process.
I guess we will all know in about two days time if / when his name comes out in the team.
To be honest I cannot see any reason why it wouldn’t be.
This “ we have to read the transcript “ bull**** surely is Greenslime clutching at straws for his own credibility!!!
To be honest I cannot see any reason why it wouldn’t be.
This “ we have to read the transcript “ bull**** surely is Greenslime clutching at straws for his own credibility!!!
They can't suspend or discipline him for assaulting his partner because he's been found not guilty of that, but that doesn't mean there aren't other issues they are entitled to look at. I expect he'll be cleared to play immediately but it wouldn't surprise if they require some sort of relationship counselling, and that's probably not a bad idea, for all concerned.
Genius
Done with NRL corruption
No you dont get a lesser offence if you plead guilty even if its first offence in Qld. If your from a small town and the aggrieved family has connections trust me the judge/magistrate will nail you. And if you are stuck in the position of having worked to hard and having a few dollars put away and you cannot get legal aid, it will cost you everything if you even look like fighting it. Thats why guilty pleas are made and without evidence. Its all money. Its not fair and its not something Australia should be proud of. I haven’t been told a story or imagined it. Ive lived it. And theres isn’t a damn thing you can do about it when the media pee in the cops pockets for stories ect. Its fact and despite being told it doesn’t happen. IT DOES!!
OK I don't know what happens in Qld and I take your point about small towns. There's still a right of appeal though from magistrates courts, and I think anyone who is not guilty of a charge should never plead guilty without thinking long and hard about all the ramifications. Sounds like you've had a pretty bad experience. I didn't mean to suggest that our criminal system produces just results.
yokahontas
Bencher
There’s a lot wrong with our legal system; it’s very much a game where justice is for the rich, who can afford the legal representation that gets them an *in* to the exclusive club that know the rules and nuances of said game - and are accepted as fellow players by everyone else in the game. Try representing yourself, however knowledgeably and eloquently, and see how you go.
There are plenty of people who either plead guilty or are found guilty because they don’t have the financial means to properly fight their case; the system of sentence reduction for guilty pleas stinks just as much in the courts as it does at the NRL judiciary - it encourages people to cut their losses and cop to things they aren’t actually guilty of, because you stand to lose more if you fight.
An inquisitorial legal system has a whole lot of merits over an adversarial system in terms of taking the game playing element out of it, for starters.
Bearfax
Grizzly old fart
In NSW Narrabeen you can get 1/4 off for pleading guilty and not wasting the courts time. And I didn't say you automatically get a lesser charge if you plead guilty, I said where evidence is lacking often police and defendant will accept lesser sentence, or in certain areas where you assist the authorities it happens. Don't try to challenge that because I've seen it happen many times. As for QLD I cant say because I didn't work there and its a different legal system. I know more than a little about NSW courts. Worked in and out of them for 34 years. Look at the legal elements below
https://www.justice.nsw.gov.au/Pages/Reforms/early-guilty-pleas.aspx
Narrabeen you keep attacking me when I'm not disputing what happened to you. I accept sometimes the law is as ass and I think I've said enough to show that. I also know in country circuits, the law is not quite as impartial as it should be (I worked for a time in Griffith and Tamworth circuits). I also agree that legal representation is too expensive and I've actually argued in certain legal quarters that we should have the equivalent of Medicare for legal issues so that people in your position can be appropriately represented. Yes I am fully aware of your plight and agree as I stated that justice is at time what you can afford. Certainly defending yourself is a very expensive task and there should be compensation if you are innocent. But I assure you its far better than you'll find overseas. What I do know with the many people I have had to deal with who have been convicted, there are not too many in the end who would deny their guilt. The court usually gets it right.
I’m sure they do get it right most of the time in terms of guilty or not guilty Bear. You obviously see that on a daily basis.And they should. They are highly educated highly paid professionals. That’s not the problem and that’s not how the system should be judged. It’s what happens before or after a trial that is the problem.
The problem is the time and expense to reach these decisions if they actually get to trial stage, the ridiculously weak penalties handed out for serious crimes against persons as relative to crimes involving property , the pressure placed on people to plead, the overprotection of dangerous juvenile offenders and the pathetically weak bail laws for defenders with a history of violence that result in lives being lost , the boys club mentality ....the list is a mile long.
My brother has been on the frontline of this battle for 30 years as part of major crime squads and the frustration the cops feel with the weak kneed approach to violent crime in this country , particularly from the judiciary ,is palpable.They are just about to release that grub involved in the murder of one of his mates , a Gold Coast copper on duty , hardly a decade ago.
We are a wealthy country with a small population. The fact these issues never seem to go away is another reflection of the pathetically weak political class in this country and their nanny state approach to law and order issues which rewards violent offenders and hampers the efforts of those who are genuinely being treated unjustly.
Comparing it to other jurisdictions does not change the fact that the system is flawed and in a lot of areas flawed badly. Simply look at the amount of women murdered or severely injured by dangerous offenders with a history of violence on bail in domestic violence cases. It’s a national disgrace.
The problem is the time and expense to reach these decisions if they actually get to trial stage, the ridiculously weak penalties handed out for serious crimes against persons as relative to crimes involving property , the pressure placed on people to plead, the overprotection of dangerous juvenile offenders and the pathetically weak bail laws for defenders with a history of violence that result in lives being lost , the boys club mentality ....the list is a mile long.
My brother has been on the frontline of this battle for 30 years as part of major crime squads and the frustration the cops feel with the weak kneed approach to violent crime in this country , particularly from the judiciary ,is palpable.They are just about to release that grub involved in the murder of one of his mates , a Gold Coast copper on duty , hardly a decade ago.
We are a wealthy country with a small population. The fact these issues never seem to go away is another reflection of the pathetically weak political class in this country and their nanny state approach to law and order issues which rewards violent offenders and hampers the efforts of those who are genuinely being treated unjustly.
Comparing it to other jurisdictions does not change the fact that the system is flawed and in a lot of areas flawed badly. Simply look at the amount of women murdered or severely injured by dangerous offenders with a history of violence on bail in domestic violence cases. It’s a national disgrace.
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Spartan Eagle
Bencher
Greensprog the arrogant self righteous egotistical khant has been appointed to have the final say on the matter...what utter nonsense! I've never despised anyone more than this prick....
Mr Beattie defended the process as due diligence for working through the new law.
“(The NRL) need to look at what the transcript says. That’s just part of doing its job,” Mr Beattie said.
“Todd is the one delegated to deal with that. My Commission sets the rules. The rules have been applied here. Todd now is the person who hands out discipline… he’ll make a determination”.
https://www.sportsradio.com.au/excl...no-fault-stand-down-after-not-guilty-verdict/
Mr Beattie defended the process as due diligence for working through the new law.
“(The NRL) need to look at what the transcript says. That’s just part of doing its job,” Mr Beattie said.
“Todd is the one delegated to deal with that. My Commission sets the rules. The rules have been applied here. Todd now is the person who hands out discipline… he’ll make a determination”.
https://www.sportsradio.com.au/excl...no-fault-stand-down-after-not-guilty-verdict/
If that is the case, I am sure we won’t get him back for this weekend
Spartan Eagle
Bencher
It's actually bordering on the ridiculous..how can Todd discipline someone who is innocent? Beattoff claims to be a lawyer..not sure how he could justify that.
Dylan will be fine Wheel. The Teflon Turd is a political animal. He’ll sniff the wind on this issue and realise it’s in his best interests to let Dylan play. His sole motivation to do anything is always self preservation and he will work out the sensible thing is to let this matter end.
Bearfax
Grizzly old fart
Good points Sue and I agree, I know many police who are frustrated by what they have to do and then see penalties that don't seem to fit the offending behaviour. I had a brother in law who left the police frustrated and a nephew just starting out. A best friend, who in fact also edited my book has a son working in the country seeing such problems. Problem is that its been shown that penalties alone don't stop crime and in fact keeping someone in gaol too long actually increases the likelihood that they will reoffend. If penalties are aimed merely to punish as some form of retribution, it doesn't work. Any punishment, just as we do with children, must be done as a means of education. Something must be learned or punishment is a wasted issue. Without it they we just reoffend and learn to do it better behind bars.
Manly NRL player Dylan Walker has had his suspension lifted after he was found not guilty of assaulting his fiancee, Alexandra Ivkovic.
The 24-year-old had charges of domestic violence-related assault occasioning actual bodily harm and common assault dismissed in Manly Local Court on Friday.
The Manly Sea Eagles centre was charged after Ms Ivkovic initially told NSW Police that Walker pulled her by the ponytail to the ground while she was cradling a baby on the driveway of their northern Sydney home.
The NRL on Friday said it had lifted Walker's suspension following the verdicts, meaning he's likely to return to the field next weekend.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ay-NRL-lifts-suspension-order-not-guilty.html
edit: I think this is just the suspension order that the nrl lifted on friday. Still have to wait for the final go ahead...I think.
The 24-year-old had charges of domestic violence-related assault occasioning actual bodily harm and common assault dismissed in Manly Local Court on Friday.
The Manly Sea Eagles centre was charged after Ms Ivkovic initially told NSW Police that Walker pulled her by the ponytail to the ground while she was cradling a baby on the driveway of their northern Sydney home.
The NRL on Friday said it had lifted Walker's suspension following the verdicts, meaning he's likely to return to the field next weekend.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ay-NRL-lifts-suspension-order-not-guilty.html
edit: I think this is just the suspension order that the nrl lifted on friday. Still have to wait for the final go ahead...I think.
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