The sum of us: Rugby league hero Steve Mortimer proud of his son's gay union

[Pittwater Legend]

We all know why the event was created and it has been mentioned previously several times in Silvertails.

So why does it seem that you are taking aim at the gay community when homophobia was the cause for the event?

 

[Ralphie]

So why does it seem that you are taking aim at the gay community when homophobia was the cause for the event?

Because you are misinterpreting what he is saying. From the start he has said his issue revolves around the public display of what he considers to be actions outside his moral compass and nothing whatsoever to do with who they are.

 

[Technical Coach]

Vilify in a legal context obviously has a different meaning/context to vilify in a social context.

Can you not see that some/many of these synonyms of vilify can easily apply to your stance on the immorality of gay and lesbian relationships? If you can't see that, put yourself in their shoes and imagine something which seems natural and moral that you do (maybe going to Church?). Now imagine that natural and moral behaviour (to you) being widely targeted as immoral by a (self-righteous) group - to the extent that everyone realises it is not safe to reveal the truth about yourself.

Can you see any qualitative difference between adjusting your own behaviour and moralising about others' behaviour?

Synonyms of vilify:
disparage, denigrate, defame, run down, revile, berate, belittle, abuse,insult, slight, attack, speak ill of, speak evil of, pour scorn on, cast aspersions on, criticize, censure, condemn, decry, denounce, pillory,lambaste;
fulminate against, rail against, inveigh against, malign, slander,libel, conduct a smear campaign against, spread lies about, blacken the name/reputation of, sully the reputation of, give someone a bad name,bring someone into disrepute, discredit, stigmatize, traduce, calumniate,impugn;
slur;
informaldo down, do a hatchet job on, take to pieces, pull apart, throw mud at, drag through the mud, slate, have a go at, hit out at,jump on, lay into, tear into, knock, slam, pan, bash, hammer, roast,skewer, bad-mouth, throw brickbats at;
informalrubbish, slag off,monster;
informalpummel, dump on;
informalbag;
archaiccontemn;
rarederogate, vituperate, asperse, vilipend
"the media vilified several of the election candidates"

It is starting to be not safe to have religious beliefs or have an alternative view also.

 

[Woodsie]

lol. You only read 7 words then? "There is the difference in a nutshell".
And that put you off? I assumed you'd be capable of reading the 32 words needed to grasp a wider context in my response. I'm sorry, I assumed as a teacher you'd have an attention span longer than my goldfish.

I do wonder why you bother asking if you have no interest in hearing a response. But each to their own.

If you had read my answer, you'd understand the same answer I gave obviously applies to all of your "right to disapprove" questions. But despite the apparent inanity of your stance, I'm enjoying your questions because they are helping clarify my thinking. Your stance has encouraged me to develop and shift my current perceptions:

1. The emotionally young (ethical followers) focus on their "rights". They need the certainty of externally imposed rules to run their life, tend to prefer conservatism and non-change, and have difficulty dealing with ambiguity.

2. The emotionally developed (ethical leaders) focus instead on outcomes and opportunities. They back their considered judgement, work equally happily with or without society's rules, tend to progressiveness, and love ambiguity and change.

Now you say you don't approve of any discrimination at all. As for all of us, conscious declarations can say nothing about our unknown, subconscious drivers. Given that same-sex discrimination was the whole basis of this thread, could you perhaps have overtly said that from the start - and made that your consistent theme? - Rather than starting by derogatorily slurring the character of the most famous outed sportsman in the country in a thread on sexual orientation discrimination - and then remaining silent on your conscious stance towards discrimination in all of your postings until now.

Why would I read volumes of material you download from google that has absolutely no bearing on the issue we are debating?

Again Rex, do you believe a person has the right to disagree. yes or no.

 

[Technical Coach]

So why does it seem that you are taking aim at the gay community when homophobia was the cause for the event?

Where have i done so other than give my view on certain types of behaviour at the event.

 

[Pittwater Legend]

Because you are misinterpreting what he is saying. From the start he has said his issue revolves around the public display of what he considers to be actions outside his moral compass and nothing whatsoever to do with who they are.

Go back to my 2nd last post and you will see that I included the nature of the event (ie. public display of gay pride) being born out of the oppression of homosexuality.

What else would you expect when homosexuals finally started to gain acceptance for something that they've felt they have had to hide?

 

[Ralphie]

It is starting to be not safe to have religious beliefs or have an alternative view also.

There is a growing trend for the so called and self described "progressive" zealots to be utterly intolerant of anyone with an alternative view to theirs. Those with that alternative view are fair game to be labelled with names (otherwise known as vilification) and they must be silenced at all costs.

 

[Ralphie]

Go back to my 2nd last post and you will see that I included the nature of the event (ie. public display of gay pride) being born out of the oppression of homosexuality.

What else would you expect when homosexuals finally started to gain acceptance for something that they've felt they have had to hide?

Well, I thought they might act like adults.

 

[Pittwater Legend]

Well, I thought they might act like adults.

What does that even mean? Adults have and will always continue to do **** things to other people. It's part of human nature.

 

[Woodsie]

I disapprove of Islam's teachings on homosexuality. Sorry, some would say I don't have the right to disapprove.

What Does Islam Teach About...

Homosexuality
What is Islam's position on the treatment of homosexuals?

Islam goes beyond merely disapproving of homosexuality. Sharia teaches that homosexuality is a vile form of fornication, punishable by death.

 

[Ralphie]

I disapprove of Islam's teachings on homosexuality. Sorry, some would say I don't have the right to disapprove.

What Does Islam Teach About...

Homosexuality
What is Islam's position on the treatment of homosexuals?

Islam goes beyond merely disapproving of homosexuality. Sharia teaches that homosexuality is a vile form of fornication, punishable by death.

Hey Woodsie, do you have Islamophobia??????

 

[Woodsie]

Hey Woodsie, do you have Islamophobia??????

Damn, I didn't consider that, I will probably be accused of it. What may save me is I only mentioned one specific issue and didn't generalise about the entire religion or it's adherents.

 

[Rex]

Why would I read volumes of material you download from google that has absolutely no bearing on the issue we are debating?

Again Rex, do you believe a person has the right to disagree. yes or no.

Lol Woodsie. You haven't lost your sense of humour - which by the way I do really enjoy.
You'll never find what I wrote in google. Feel free to Google it if you don't believe me. And you won't find it anywhere else. We each have our unique crazy viewing lens. Me moreso than most maybe. I write about what I see. You write about what you see. Neither of us see an objective universe. Neither of us have access to utimate truths, only to appearances. We largely see what we are conditioned to see. And difficulties arises when either or both of us think we are talking about an objective universe. And that we have access to ultimate truths.
If you believe that people have a right to disagree, then that will be true in your world. Not ultimately true, but relatively true. That question of rights just doesn't arise in my world.

 

[Rex]

I disapprove of Islam's teachings on homosexuality. Sorry, some would say I don't have the right to disapprove.

What Does Islam Teach About...

Homosexuality
What is Islam's position on the treatment of homosexuals?

Islam goes beyond merely disapproving of homosexuality. Sharia teaches that homosexuality is a vile form of fornication, punishable by death.

This was a reflection of the cuture of the times. The Bible is often quoted for similar "tolerance" of homosexuality. Even more concerning to most people, the bible says the Lord demands his followers to put to death by stoning anyone who merely collects sticks on the Sabbath. So watch out if you mow your lawns on Sunday - or is it Saturday? See Numbers 15: 32-36. You'd hope we have progressed from blind adherance to words written by mere humans in a book thousands of years ago - which reflected the ignorance and fears in the culture of the times.

 

[Technical Coach]

This was a reflection of the cuture of the times. The Bible is often quoted for similar "tolerance" of homosexuality. Even more concerning to most people, the bible says the Lord demands his followers to put to death by stoning anyone who merely collects sticks on the Sabbath. So watch out if you mow your lawns on Sunday - or is it Saturday? See Numbers 15: 32-36. You'd hope we have progressed from blind adherance to words written by mere humans in a book thousands of years ago - which reflected the ignorance and fears in the culture of the times.

Many of these quotes are copied and pasted but not debated in the context they are intended,(or even reading the whole piece leading up to and after the extreme quote, not taking the whole picture or the wisdom behind them.

Some people in modern times make comments that literally look real bad but in context are just frustration or exaggerating to make a point.

 

[Rex]

Many of these quotes are copied and pasted but not debated in the context they are intended,(or even reading the whole piece leading up to and after the extreme quote, not taking the whole picture or the wisdom behind them.

Some people in modern times make comments that literally look real bad but in context are just frustration or exaggerating to make a point.

I'm all ears.

Please explain the "wisdom" you see behind God commanding his followers that they must stone to death one of their peers for simply collecting firewood on the Sabbath - which they, of course, did. This clarifying "context" you speak of is interesting. And are you and your peers going to go on a killing rampage because you hear Allah's (aka God's) voice? This "wisdom" could explain a lot about current affairs.

 

[Ralphie]

Damn, I didn't consider that, I will probably be accused of it. What may save me is I only mentioned one specific issue and didn't generalise about the entire religion or it's adherents.

It's all good, the ignore facility on this site is your friend. I'm finding this thread has lifted it's IQ level by a substantial margin since I made use of it.

 

[Rex]

Damn, I didn't consider that, I will probably be accused of it. What may save me is I only mentioned one specific issue and didn't generalise about the entire religion or it's adherents.

True you did speak of only one issue. Yet you did overgeneralise to put all Muslim beliefs into a single bucket. I'm not sure why?

You said "Islam's position on the treatment of homosexuals". There isn't one single Islam, just as there is not one single Christianity:

Extreme prejudice remains, both socially and legally, in much of the Islamic world against people who engage in homosexual acts. In Afghanistan, Brunei, Iran, Mauritania, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates and Yemen, homosexual activity carries the death penalty.[5][6][7][8][9] In others, such as Somalia and Malaysia, it is illegal.[10] Same-sex sexual activity is legal in 20 Muslim-majority nations (Albania, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Burkina Faso, Chad, Djibouti, Guinea Bissau, Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan,Kazakhstan, Kosovo, Kyrgyzstan, Mali, Niger, Tajikistan, Turkey, West Bank (State of Palestine), and most of Indonesia, as well as Northern Cyprus). In Albania, Lebanon, and Turkey, there have been discussions about legalizing same-sex marriage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam​

And what of Christianity? The tolerant denominations tend to be named by exception:

Today some Christian denominations are accepting of homosexuality and transgenderism and inclusive of homosexual and transgender people, such as the United Church of Christ and the Metropolitan Community Church.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT-affirming_Christian_denominations
​

Why is the intolerance of LGBT dominantly led by the religions? Because they both reflect the same Middle Eastern cultural values from a couple of thousand years ago. Yet if most people were asked if they wanted to take on Middle Eastern values here in Australia, no prizes for guessing the response. Both Islam and Christianity have been strongly influenced by the story of Lot, and Sodom and Gomorrah. This story of violence and rape (against both men and women) has been subsequently twisted into equating the word Sodom (representing these social "evils" of violence) with homosexuality. This meaning has flowed into both the English and Arabic words associated with homosexuality.

Lot was the moral hero in this Sodom and Gomorrah story. It is interesting that Lot first offered up his daughters to be gang raped, and then had sex with them himself. I guess moralists pick and choose what to focus on depending on their agendas.

 

[Technical Coach]

I'm all ears.

Please explain the "wisdom" you see behind God commanding his followers that they must stone to death one of their peers for simply collecting firewood on the Sabbath - which they, of course, did. This clarifying "context" you speak of is interesting. And are you and your peers going to go on a killing rampage because you hear Allah's (aka God's) voice? This "wisdom" could explain a lot about current affairs.

I'm not going to waste time with you, i was directing my point in a general sense how people will rip quotes out of the Bible and just take the literal meaning because it suits their own agenda.

I'm not saying there isn't parts of the Bible that seem silly and ridiculous but in many instances it is about exaggeration to illustrate a point.

When i reply "Go and get F%^&*(" and rip that out of a long list of debate or chats with you) does it mean i am recommending to you that you really need to get laid or just move on i've had enough of you.

You really do need to get laid come to think of it.

 

[pjayz]

Lot was the moral hero in this Sodom and Gomorrah story. It is interesting that Lot first offered up his daughters to be gang raped, and then had sex with them himself. I guess moralists pick and choose what to focus on depending on their agendas.

Rex, could you please advise where in the bible it is told that Lot had sex with them himself please?