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The Kieran Forum

AASeaEagles

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Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Messages
245
Fair call... but seriously can't find any positives when it comes to levi. So he can pass? I can't honestly think of a 9 in the comp who offers less. But respect the positivity
 

Technical Coach

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Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
2,980
And only 6m kick average. This basically paints the picture. We all knew Levi wasn't any good but these stats are absolutely shocking. Even with the addition of Foz I'd still like a quality actual 9 on our books. Des did say in his interview that he still didn't have clarity on the stand down rule which says to me they are actually looking at the rule. Imagine a spine of Fainu, Chez, Schuster and Turbo with Foz at 14. #premiers
Stats are only stats and don't explain the full story.
You could also say the same thing about Manly's lack of tries from kicks and say DCE is a poor half---which we all know is not the case.(not as great as people make out but not a bad half either)

I do recall you rated Levi as a possible signing before he joined the club so the "we all knew Levi wasn't any good" is over stating it a little--- more a hindsight reply based off one year and a poorly performing team as a whole.

Yes Levi has his obvious limitations that can't be denied, but too many here are going down the "scapegoat" road as per usual.

The same way Api was compared to Fainu in the "Stats" section regarding points scored when they are on the field and now with Api back at Penrith last years stats mean "jack all".

Understanding the stats and why they are the case is more informative than relying on stats alone to make an informative decision.
 

The better Robbo

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Joined
Oct 5, 2017
Messages
1,902
Stats are only stats and don't explain the full story.
You could also say the same thing about Manly's lack of tries from kicks and say DCE is a poor half---which we all know is not the case.(not as great as people make out but not a bad half either)

I do recall you rated Levi as a possible signing before he joined the club so the "we all knew Levi wasn't any good" is over stating it a little--- more a hindsight reply based off one year and a poorly performing team as a whole.

Yes Levi has his obvious limitations that can't be denied, but too many here are going down the "scapegoat" road as per usual.

The same way Api was compared to Fainu in the "Stats" section regarding points scored when they are on the field and now with Api back at Penrith last years stats mean "jack all".

Understanding the stats and why they are the case is more informative than relying on stats alone to make an informative decision.
I did have high hopes for Levi, I thought he had potential to be a great buy for us BUT in this instance I think stats don't lie. No try assists, minimal LB assists, no kicks and one of the worst offenders for set restarts. What more info do you need to make an informed decision?
When I said "We knew Levi was no good" was in reference to this year, not prior to him joining us
 

HoldenV8

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Joined
Aug 16, 2013
Messages
15,913
Ballin wasn't a try assist king either, but his crisp delivery on both sides of the ruck created opportunities to hit the edges in the most efficient manner(but you don't see that in the stats other than in "wins"), Levi offered the same in a squad missing it's best fullback and 5/8 option so the whole team suffered.

I would of loved an Api Levi rotation last year when the team was performing well and allowing more time and space to Walker when Levi was on.

I would of stuck with Levi to build his confidence and allow him the opportunity to play in a full strength consistent squad to take advantage of his crisp lateral passing.There have been glimpses of this even in a poorly performing injured squad that lacked the skill level and speed to make use of it.
Those glimpses of good play from Levi this year have unfortunately been few and far between and he is prone to making bad errors from continually passing the ball at players heads to running the wrong way when the ball should have been passed the other way. For a player who has 5 tests under his belt (4 of them for NZ) we should have seen better from him. A lot better. The simple fact is that he's just not been good enough. I mean, IMO Croker has actually proved to be the smarter of the two from dummy half, the problem there though has been that his execution, especially under pressure, has been relatively poor.

With Api gone to Penrith and Fainu not available, our dummy half play this year with Levi and Croker has been 3rd rate. Its been a huge downgrade and has played a big part in how bad our attack has been for most of this season.
 
Last edited:

Budgewoi Eagle

In for the long haul.
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2016 Tipping Competitor
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Mar 15, 2009
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4,994
Ballin wasn't a try assist king either, but his crisp delivery on both sides of the ruck created opportunities to hit the edges in the most efficient manner(but you don't see that in the stats other than in "wins"), Levi offered the same in a squad missing it's best fullback and 5/8 option so the whole team suffered.
Is there any point in having crisp passing if you consistently make the wrong choices?
 

HoldenV8

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Aug 16, 2013
Messages
15,913
Pretty sure that was before he knew AFB was going.
As soon as I saw that video posted on the Manly website a couple of weeks ago when Des said that there were no plans to sign Kieran Foran ... my immediate first thought was that we were definitely going after Foran.

And here we are. As of 2021, Kieran Foran will be a Sea Eagle once more.

Like you SER8, I wouldn't be surprised if this has been in the works for longer than any of us realise.
 

HoldenV8

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Joined
Aug 16, 2013
Messages
15,913
100% correct, and Wade Graham doesn't play lock either. All this Schuster to 13 is by people who still think locks are like Fittler, Dymock, Clyde, Mackay and Scott Hill. No surer way to kill Schuster's game then by sticking him in the middle as a tackling machine. If he's not 6 he's an edge backrower where he can use his skills, forget playing him in the middle
For quite a while (since about the early-mid 80s and occasionally before with players like Mal Reilly and Ian Martin), lock was used as a wide running forward and/or as a 2nd 5/8, hence players like Fittler who was essentially a centre or 5/8 actually succeeded in the position. These days though its usually nothing more than an extra prop, usually the prop who like a Jake or Jason Taumalolo has the biggest motor and the better ball skills. Being a strong defender is also a requirement.

I personally wouldn't mind seeing Jake moved back to the front row with Siro moved to lock.
 

winnyason

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Joined
Oct 9, 2011
Messages
2,561
Some stats for the Foran haters.
Foran:
Games 14
Tries 4
Try assists 12
Line break assists 9
Forced drop outs 4
Average kick metres 184

Cust
Games 10
Tries 3
Try assists 3
Line break assists 3
Forced drop outs 3
Average kick metres 84

Croker
Games 19
Tries 1
Try assists 0
Line break assists 1
Forced drop outs 2
Average kick metres 47

Levi
Games
19
Tries 2
Try assists 0
Line break assists 2
Forced drop outs 0
Average kick metres 6

Croker/Levi/Cust Average
Tries 6- Foran 4
Try assists 3 Foran 12
L/B assists 6 Foran 9
Drop outs 5 Foran 4
Avg kick m 46m Foran 184m

This tells 2 stories
1.No wonder we were so pooh this year, our 3 playmakers outside of Chez couldn't set up tries, line breaks or help out with kicking
2. Foz still has plenty to offer and will do our team wonders having a general out there that also has an ability to kick and create.

No wonder we are letting Levi go and Croker should go to the bottom of the barrel with team selection.
Wow that's bloody telling no wonder we suck
 

globaleagle

stay tuned
Staff member
Premium Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
24,644
That should be @Dan ’s next competition, $10 a person ( he keeps the dollars ) “ guess how many pages this thread gets to by the end of round 26 2021” , closest wins .
Some shifty mod (not me, I'm adorably honest...honest!) would just pick a page number and delete posts en masse to ensure sweet sweet victory!

That and if any poster was 1 to 15 pages behind they'd be spamming this thread like you know who has been over the last 3 weeks.

the servers would melt!

I say.... do it!
 

Bring back the.... Biff?

Foran 2021 Eagle
Joined
Apr 25, 2019
Messages
4,966
Is he being told to pass the ball on the blind side when we have 2 attackers on 4 defenders? Cos he did that a lot! Is he being told go give away more set restarts than anyone in the comp? Is he being told to not set up tries? Either way you look at it Levi was completely ineffective on all levels and a big reason we struggled
He is a low iq low skill player.. watching api last night he is very clever and mesmerises the defence. He can tackle as well.
 

Simonmyers11

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Joined
Jun 22, 2012
Messages
5,474
The idea of Foran playing at 9 is growing on me. Watched the tigers game and everything they do starts with Grant. We had nothing at hooker this year except a deer in headlights.

At least with Foran he can direct the team around, have a smart passing and kicking game, will take the ball to the line etc. Yes will have to do more defence, hopefully his body holds up. Could turn out to be a masterstroke? Wait and see
 

master blaster

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Joined
Feb 8, 2010
Messages
2,656
For quite a while (since about the early-mid 80s and occasionally before with players like Mal Reilly and Ian Martin), lock was used as a wide running forward and/or as a 2nd 5/8, hence players like Fittler who was essentially a centre or 5/8 actually succeeded in the position. These days though its usually nothing more than an extra prop, usually the prop who like a Jake or Jason Taumalolo has the biggest motor and the better ball skills. Being a strong defender is also a requirement.

I personally wouldn't mind seeing Jake moved back to the front row with Siro moved to lock.
Ian Martin was my all time favourite Manly player. You don't see players like him around anymore
 

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