The Kieran Forum

[frank stokes]

Isn't that the structure back-ended contracts have, & didnt the NRL stop allowing them last year (or the year before?).

Yes... because of one D. Hasler I believe...

 

[KNUCKLES]

That's great news. I'm looking forward to the announcement of our new game-managing half then.

Is that what the club wants?

 

[40 years an eagle]

Is that what the club wants?

Well if they don't they should not be operating an NRL team.

 

[Bring back the.... Biff?]

I'm sure Thommo's 400k is already spoken for buddy.

These guys were all off-contract so any money for them has to come from a new place.

Hoppa re-signing and serious upgrade
Cust re-signing
Keppie re-signing


We will also need find money to pay these guys if we want to re-sign:

Metcalf
Waddle
Levi
etc.

We also upgraded Schuster this year with money out of next years' cap.

Not many math people here i'm afraid.

Do you know for sure Thommos money is spoken for?

 

[The better Robbo]

Do you know for sure Thommos money is spoken for?

Also remember the salary cap increases each year which would help with upgrades. Next year they are considering dropping the top squad to 26 players but having the same amount of cap to spend. We all really have NO IDEA how this would all work but if they do have the same amount to spend but on only 26 players we might have a bit spare in the cap to buy a decent player. It's all speculation, we have no idea who is being shopped around or who we are targeting but I'm sure Des and the staff know where we are weak and have no depth. I'm sure he knows we need strike out wide and a crafty hooker or 5/8.

 

[40 years an eagle]

Do you know for sure Thommos money is spoken for?

We have known for months that we will have his money available so it would have been accounted for at that time.
Anyways, it was more a figure of speech than stated as FACT buddy.

Do the math, by all accounts we spent all our cap this year, who we are keeping, who are we off-contract extending, who are upgrading and who is leaving. By any scenario i can see, bar moving on a big money player or/and not signing Hoppa, there doesn't appear to be a "chunk" of money to throw at a great youngster, let alone a gamble on a crock.

I would love to somehow gather enough to snare Burton, it would go a long way towards DCE's millions being palpable and solve our biggest problems of game-management and ball distribution.

 

[Bring back the.... Biff?]

We have known for months that we will have his money available so it would have been accounted for at that time.
Anyways, it was more a figure of speech than stated as FACT buddy.

Do the math, by all accounts we spent all our cap this year, who we are keeping, who are we off-contract extending, who are upgrading and who is leaving. By any scenario i can see, bar moving on a big money player or/and not signing Hoppa, there doesn't appear to be a "chunk" of money to throw at a great youngster, let alone a gamble on a crock.

I would love to somehow gather enough to snare Burton, it would go a long way towards DCE's millions being palpable and solve our biggest problems of game-management and ball distribution.

Ah so you dont know... and you want to ditch foran because he's a crock but want to go after a kid who has played a couple of games and missed 5 field goal attempts in 1 of them. He went pretty good his the next game but i dont know if hes the answer. Might as well play cust at 6 then.. if des signs no one then what will he do with cust? Walker to 6 and cust to 9? Or 14? Maybe burton is the answer lets see who the club goes after.. is he off contract?

 

[Bearfax]

Ah so you dont know... and you want to ditch foran because he's a crock but want to go after a kid who has played a couple of games and missed 5 field goal attempts in 1 of them. He went pretty good his the next game but i dont know if hes the answer. Might as well play cust at 6 then.. if des signs no one then what will he do with cust? Walker to 6 and cust to 9? Or 14? Maybe burton is the answer lets see who the club goes after.. is he off contract?

You're right. Foran at his best is better than Cust, Croker or Walker, though Cust may become something as the years pass.

But what I've seen of Foran of late, is comparable to Green, but with injury issues that should worry anyone signing him a la Watmough. Watmough was one of the best forwards I've seen play for Manly and went to the Eels on that top reputation and he'd only just turned 31 when he left Manly. Had suffered a string of injuries, still managing to get on the field. Was it a wise signing for the Eels? Played 17 games and was shot at Parra. They were lucky with the pre existing injury issue being 'overlooked'. Unlikely to happen with Foran.

Foran was a great player, no doubt, and fit he's worthy of signing. Personally, and I know I'll be howled down, but we have a kid called Schuster who may be just be as good as Foran at his peak if not better. It would be a poor business decision to lose him because we instead put our hopes on past memories, and I doubt Foran would sign for less than $400,000 a year given he's already knocked back a figure only slightly smaller at the Dogs. Can we afford to risk losing young talent for that short term solution?

Shock contender emerges to sign veteran Bulldog

'We are waiting to see what Kieran wants to do'

wwos.nine.com.au

 

[The better Robbo]

You're right. Foran at his best is better than Cust, Croker or Walker, though Cust may become something as the years pass.

But what I've seen of Foran of late, is comparable to Green, but with injury issues that should worry anyone signing him a la Watmough. Watmough was one of the best forwards I've seen play for Manly and went to the Eels on that top reputation and he'd only just turned 31 when he left Manly. Had suffered a string of injuries, still managing to get on the field. Was it a wise signing for the Eels? Played 17 games and was shot at Parra. They were lucky with the pre existing injury issue being 'overlooked'. Unlikely to happen with Foran.

Foran was a great player, no doubt, and fit he's worthy of signing. Personally, and I know I'll be howled down, but we have a kid called Schuster who may be just be as good as Foran at his peak if not better. It would be a poor business decision to lose him because we instead put our hopes on past memories, and I doubt Foran would sign for less than $400,000 a year given he's already knocked back a figure only slightly smaller at the Dogs. Can we afford to risk losing young talent for that short term solution?

Shock contender emerges to sign veteran Bulldog

'We are waiting to see what Kieran wants to do'

wwos.nine.com.au

Do we necessarily need to lose a young talent to buy someone of note? There is plenty of dead wood we could/would offload before losing a young gun.
Elliott
Levi
Taufua
Croker
Waddell
Gosiewski
Thommo
There's a fair bit of cash saved there and if we are dead serious could easily offload say Taupau and then sign Foz and a Saab/Katoa. If there's a will, there's a way!

 

[frank stokes]

Do we necessarily need to lose a young talent to buy someone of note? There is plenty of dead wood we could/would offload before losing a young gun.
Elliott
Levi
Taufua
Croker
Waddell
Gosiewski
Thommo
There's a fair bit of cash saved there and if we are dead serious could easily offload say Taupau and then sign Foz and a Saab/Katoa. If there's a will, there's a way!

I think the first thing we need to do is stop renewing contracts for this mediocre lot... our 'marquees' are locked away so there should be a no re-sign policy for the rest and the 'support' squad should be completely turned over in the next 2 years...bring young players into grade and identify some targets at other clubs to plug the gaps... sure 2021 & 2022 may suck but if it is not done than this mediocrity will persist for a lot longer coz in the modern game where injuries are always going to be a factor, this squad is not capable of challenging for a title...

 

[manly al]

Maybe Foz will be running out of options soon in his apparent bid to secure a contract in the 400 k range but even in the 350 k range or less , can not see how Manly would be in a position to offer even this amount . Hardly up to speed with Manly planing but still have not seen any definite indication at all that they have any serious interest in signing him . Still think that Walker has more to offer as a 6 and hopefully his injury woes will be overcome but even this aspect would deter other clubs from taking up some of his freight if he was being shopped around which again just like the Foz to Manly suggestion seems to have no real legs or basis . If Cust was not re signed it might have been a different matter and he has other value in that he can also play 7 and one would think and through necessity maybe 9 as well . Better of giving Schuster a crack at 6 [ but does he even have a semblance of a kicking game ] if things do not pan out for Walker to resume there with Cust still as a general utility . Schuster has to be in the game day squad somewhere soon how ever and all things normal and if . Des has not completely lost the plot .

 

[KNUCKLES]

You're right. Foran at his best is better than Cust, Croker or Walker, though Cust may become something as the years pass.

But what I've seen of Foran of late, is comparable to Green, but with injury issues that should worry anyone signing him a la Watmough. Watmough was one of the best forwards I've seen play for Manly and went to the Eels on that top reputation and he'd only just turned 31 when he left Manly. Had suffered a string of injuries, still managing to get on the field. Was it a wise signing for the Eels? Played 17 games and was shot at Parra. They were lucky with the pre existing injury issue being 'overlooked'. Unlikely to happen with Foran.

Foran was a great player, no doubt, and fit he's worthy of signing. Personally, and I know I'll be howled down, but we have a kid called Schuster who may be just be as good as Foran at his peak if not better. It would be a poor business decision to lose him because we instead put our hopes on past memories, and I doubt Foran would sign for less than $400,000 a year given he's already knocked back a figure only slightly smaller at the Dogs. Can we afford to risk losing young talent for that short term solution?

Shock contender emerges to sign veteran Bulldog

'We are waiting to see what Kieran wants to do'

wwos.nine.com.au

I think he knocked back the 400k offer because it was a one year deal.. he might take 300k for 2 years. He wants security id say

 

[SeaEaglez]

You're right. Foran at his best is better than Cust, Croker or Walker, though Cust may become something as the years pass.

But what I've seen of Foran of late, is comparable to Green, but with injury issues that should worry anyone signing him a la Watmough. Watmough was one of the best forwards I've seen play for Manly and went to the Eels on that top reputation and he'd only just turned 31 when he left Manly. Had suffered a string of injuries, still managing to get on the field. Was it a wise signing for the Eels? Played 17 games and was shot at Parra. They were lucky with the pre existing injury issue being 'overlooked'. Unlikely to happen with Foran.

Foran was a great player, no doubt, and fit he's worthy of signing. Personally, and I know I'll be howled down, but we have a kid called Schuster who may be just be as good as Foran at his peak if not better. It would be a poor business decision to lose him because we instead put our hopes on past memories, and I doubt Foran would sign for less than $400,000 a year given he's already knocked back a figure only slightly smaller at the Dogs. Can we afford to risk losing young talent for that short term solution?

Shock contender emerges to sign veteran Bulldog

'We are waiting to see what Kieran wants to do'

wwos.nine.com.au

Hi @Bearfax
I’m not so sure there needs to be so much emotion attached to the Foran subject. What you posted is correct regarding risk of injury, however he would not be blocking Schuster’s way, his presence would develop it.
There is far more work around playing footy than the 80 minutes on game day...however those results are where everyone accountable is judged.
I have watched footy for a long time, and it has changed significantly in the past 10 years.
What hasn’t changed, is you need somebody to steer the football team around. Sometimes it takes a couple of players to do this.
DCE has done a very good job, he has tried hard to be a onfield leader.
But he does not do a good enough job in relation to the top teams.
My thought is that we could actually benefit bringing KF back to the club and learn from his football brain, whilst having him direct the team on the park.
He would straighten the attack, execute better last tackle options and generally manage the players around him into executing what they are trained to do.
He is a great on field talker, who can lead and inspire.
Schuster can learn from him and be groomed to take over if he is indeed the man to do it.
Imagine Schuster training with DCE and KF for 2 years?
And for sure, I would see Dessie integrating him into the 17 next year, maybe at centre or off the bench.
Cust is a natural halfback everyday
I think the future is Cust/Schuster in the halves. But if they were thrown in now with players like our current outside backs, it would be diabolical.
Have faith mate, there is a plan. Just because we have been thrashed a few times, doesn’t mean we throw the plan out completely and start ad libbing our way through.
I like the idea of the old days at Manly when the reggies and juniors came through and slotted straight in, but it’s a different game now. Patience is key to success.
Everybody can bag Gus all they like, but he is responsible for the juggernaut at Penrith.
It took 6-7 years to get the mix right, but they will contend for the next 10 because of the pathways and player management. They to have moved plenty of players on.
I hope we are both right, because I can’t wait to see the next generation develop.
If KF can facilitate that short term, then we would be mad not to give it a shot for $800K or so over 2 years.
Plus....HE owes us!

 

[KNUCKLES]

Hi @Bearfax
I’m not so sure there needs to be so much emotion attached to the Foran subject. What you posted is correct regarding risk of injury, however he would not be blocking Schuster’s way, his presence would develop it.
There is far more work around playing footy than the 80 minutes on game day...however those results are where everyone accountable is judged.
I have watched footy for a long time, and it has changed significantly in the past 10 years.
What hasn’t changed, is you need somebody to steer the football team around. Sometimes it takes a couple of players to do this.
DCE has done a very good job, he has tried hard to be a infield leader.
But he does not do a good enough job in relation to the top teams.
My thought is that we could actually benefit bringing KF back to the club and learn from his football brain, whilst having him direct the team infield.
He would straighten the attack, execute better last tackle options and generally manage the players around him into executing what they are trained to do.
He is a great on field talker, who can lead and inspire.
Schuster can learn from him and be groomed to take over if he is indeed the man to do it.
Imagine Schuster training with DCE and KF for 2 years?
And for sure, I would see Dessie integrating him into the 17 next year, maybe at centre or off the bench.
Cust s a halfback everyday
I think the future is Cust/Schuster in the halves. But if they were thrown in now with players like our current outside backs, it would be diabolical.
Have faith mate, there is a plan. Just because we have been thrashed a few times, doesn’t mean we throw the plan out completely and start ad lobbing our way through.
I like the idea of the old days at Manly when the reggies came through and stepped up, but it’s a different game now. Patience is key to success.
Everybody can bag Gus all they like, but he is responsible for the juggernaut at Penrith.
It took 6-7 years to get the mix right, but they will contend for the next 10 because of the pathways and player management. They to have moved plenty of players on.
I hope we are both right, because I can’t wait to see the next generation develop.
If KF can facilitate that short term, then we would be mad not to give it a shot for $800K or so over 2 years.
Plus....HE owes us!

The cronk effect

 

[The better Robbo]

Hi @Bearfax
I’m not so sure there needs to be so much emotion attached to the Foran subject. What you posted is correct regarding risk of injury, however he would not be blocking Schuster’s way, his presence would develop it.
There is far more work around playing footy than the 80 minutes on game day...however those results are where everyone accountable is judged.
I have watched footy for a long time, and it has changed significantly in the past 10 years.
What hasn’t changed, is you need somebody to steer the football team around. Sometimes it takes a couple of players to do this.
DCE has done a very good job, he has tried hard to be a onfield leader.
But he does not do a good enough job in relation to the top teams.
My thought is that we could actually benefit bringing KF back to the club and learn from his football brain, whilst having him direct the team on the park.
He would straighten the attack, execute better last tackle options and generally manage the players around him into executing what they are trained to do.
He is a great on field talker, who can lead and inspire.
Schuster can learn from him and be groomed to take over if he is indeed the man to do it.
Imagine Schuster training with DCE and KF for 2 years?
And for sure, I would see Dessie integrating him into the 17 next year, maybe at centre or off the bench.
Cust is a natural halfback everyday
I think the future is Cust/Schuster in the halves. But if they were thrown in now with players like our current outside backs, it would be diabolical.
Have faith mate, there is a plan. Just because we have been thrashed a few times, doesn’t mean we throw the plan out completely and start ad libbing our way through.
I like the idea of the old days at Manly when the reggies and juniors came through and slotted straight in, but it’s a different game now. Patience is key to success.
Everybody can bag Gus all they like, but he is responsible for the juggernaut at Penrith.
It took 6-7 years to get the mix right, but they will contend for the next 10 because of the pathways and player management. They to have moved plenty of players on.
I hope we are both right, because I can’t wait to see the next generation develop.
If KF can facilitate that short term, then we would be mad not to give it a shot for $800K or so over 2 years.
Plus....HE owes us!

Perfect and spot on. I still think Cust is a 9 but that's just my opinion.

 

[Bearfax]

I think he knocked back the 400k offer because it was a one year deal.. he might take 300k for 2 years. He wants security id say

I would very much doubt it and then there is Newcastle and Wests possibly vying for his services which would up the ante. Take him for two years and on average, if he doesn't succumb to one of his major season ending injuries he's been suffering once or twice for the past 6 years, we would on average have him for two half years on the field. He hasn't played more than 17 games in a season since 2014, and generally its been somewhat less. I've read on these forums issues regarding young players being too much a risk for a couple of early injuries eg Gutherson, Albert Hopa. Yet here is a 30 year old with 6 years of being plagued with injury and we decide to take the risk.

 

[Bearfax]

Do we necessarily need to lose a young talent to buy someone of note? There is plenty of dead wood we could/would offload before losing a young gun.
Elliott
Levi
Taufua
Croker
Waddell
Gosiewski
Thommo
There's a fair bit of cash saved there and if we are dead serious could easily offload say Taupau and then sign Foz and a Saab/Katoa. If there's a will, there's a way!

Trouble with that is that Taufua and Croker are signed until the end of 2021, and Taupau until 2022. Even if a deal was made with another club, we would still be paying a percentage of their contract anyway. It seems there's a perception that we can just get rid of players, one often mentioned being DCE. But how, without paying at least a percentage of their salaries for nothing. Can you imagine how much we'd be paying to sell someone like DCE off. One of the big problems this club has had over the past 7 years is that we've had several crocks (great players in their time I grant), who have sat on the side line taking up needed cash for no benefit. It happens, but we shouldn't be inviting it like doing a Parramatta and signing up more older injury prone players, that eat up salary caps and loses top youngsters eg Gutherson, or at present Albert Hopa. Besides I'd never swap Foran of today with Taupau, one of the best props in the game

 

[The CrabWalker]

I think he knocked back the 400k offer because it was a one year deal.. he might take 300k for 2 years. He wants security id say

With his history security or health insurance is the same thing.

 

[Bearfax]

Thing is if we sign Foran for 2-3 years and he gets injured and cant play on, it doesn't hurt him. Of course he wants the security because he's assured of payment. But the club loses out.

 

[The CrabWalker]

Thing is if we sign Foran for 2-3 years and he gets injured and cant play on, it doesn't hurt him. Of course he wants the security because he's assured of payment. But the club loses out.

That what I said, he wants health insurance.
We have the Shoe and I reckon the Boot will fit for 5/8 or center.