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The Folau Saga ... or Castle's Catastrophy

Woodsie

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It comes down to the business owner / person in charge of the system i.e. Castle for ARU
Seriously .... corporate entities are now going to decide important social and moral issues based on ledger balances .... then we are completely stuffed ... may as well bring back Kevin and Julia ....
 

yokahontas

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100% agree .... but who decides what constitutes bigotry? ..... I am cetain that there are thousands, some even members of Silvertails .... that believe that Folau's actions were motivated by love and that his only crime was to attempt to save the souls of the sinful ......

You and Andrew Webster may well believe he was bigoted ... doesn't make you correct ... the Rev. Fred Nile might cheer him as a champion of light and a savour ...... and that equally doesn't make him correct ...
Deciding what constitutes bigotry isn’t always simple, but in this case I don’t think it’s actually that hard.

What Folau is spruiking is Old Testament stuff, yeah? The same Old Testament that also (as mentioned elsewhere on Silvertails) justifies racism and slavery?

So the simple test of -insert race here- should actually be relevant in this case (it’s not always). If Folau was openly saying if your skin is of a certain hue (I know, the irony...!) you’re going to hell, would it be acceptable? Because you can no more change your sexual orientation than you can change your race - and that’s where the issue lies. You can choose to stop lying, stealing, consuming alcohol, committing adultery...you can’t change what sprinkles your donut.
 

MuzztheEagle

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Seriously .... corporate entities are now going to decide important social and moral issues based on ledger balances .... then we are completely stuffed ... may as well bring back Kevin and Julia ....
I think it would be more accurate to say that they can decide on the suitability of their employees based on that employees potential to impact to the ledger balance (as well as their ability to fit into the workplace culture - with religious groups wanting to add the "correct" faith to this as a requirement). How many times have you seen someone moved on from a workplace for essentially being a dickhead? I've seen plenty.
 

lsz

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Seriously .... corporate entities are now going to decide important social and moral issues based on ledger balances .... then we are completely stuffed ... may as well bring back Kevin and Julia ....
They will as it is relevant to their business. In no way it is an ideal process but I do not see any other way to do it

Is your solution to let anyone say what ever they want without consequences?
 

Woodsie

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I think it would be more accurate to say that they can decide on the suitability of their employees based on that employees potential to impact to the ledger balance (as well as their ability to fit into the workplace culture - with religious groups wanting to add the "correct" faith to this as a requirement). How many times have you seen someone moved on from a workplace for essentially being a dickhead? I've seen plenty.
Yes ... but that wasn't the question .... I agree that a company has the right to decide on the suitability of employees .... just not sure that they are the best equiped to decide what constitutes bigotry ... or become the nations social and moral compass .......
 

MuzztheEagle

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Yes ... but that wasn't the question .... I agree that a company has the right to decide on the suitability of employees .... just not sure that they are the best equiped to decide what constitutes bigotry ... or become the nations social and moral compass .......
They don't need to. If there is enough public outcry that earnings could take a hit then that is the justification.
 

Woodsie

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They will as it is relevant to their business. In no way it is an ideal process but I do not see any other way to do it

Is your solution to let anyone say what ever they want without consequences?
You are argueing based on that it is a given fact that the comments were bigotry .... my point is that is demonstively contestable .... in the ears of the beholder ....

My solution is that it is the courts of law or our elected representatives that should make these determinations ..... NOT Company executives ......
 

Woodsie

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They don't need to. If there is enough public outcry that earnings could take a hit then that is the justification.
That is a slippery moral slope ..... profits equal right ..... maybe a long bow ... but not too long .... the southern cotton barons argued that black slavery was an essential economic factor in their commercial viability .....
 

MuzztheEagle

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That is a slippery moral slope ..... profits equal right ..... maybe a long bow ... but not too long .... the southern cotton barons argued that black slavery was an essential economic factor in their commercial viability .....
First things first: Your logical fallacy is slippery slope

But, aside from the fallacy, so what? How many times in today's age do we hear about companies (and government services) moving offshore because labour prices are cheaper and laws are more relaxed. And you would probably hear the the exact same argument of an essential economic factor in their commercial viability. Should this be stopped?
 
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HappilyManly

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MuzztheEagle

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You are argueing based on that it is a given fact that the comments were bigotry .... my point is that is demonstively contestable .... in the ears of the beholder ....

My solution is that it is the courts of law or our elected representatives that should make these determinations ..... NOT Company executives ......
Let's see how our elected representatives get on while trying to pass this sort of law with the ongoing religious discrimination bill :)
 

globaleagle

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It's off the general topic but relevant to your comment but the 'other week' I watched a news clip about how California (I think it was) were using prisoners as firefighters. If they went into the most dangerous spots they got $2 an hour, $1 if not.

But after their gaol time ends, if they want to become a fire fighter they cant because...you guessed it, you can't have a record and be a fire fighter!
 

urulion

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So if you were sacked and were given a year's salary but could never work again in your chosen field...would you consider that victory?
For the record, I agree with you that freedom of expression is fundamental to any notion of human freedom.
But we don't have that.
If you assert we do have that, kindly direct me to the Constitution/Bill of Rights/High Court authority that you rely on!!
Hi SeaEagleRock8 hope you are well.

Mate, in regards to authorities that maybe relied upon to substantiate freedom of expression there are numerous....


DPP v Kaba [2014] VSC 52 Bell J talks about this at lengths and Australia's responsibilities to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) see paragraphs 90-94 in his decision.


See ICCPR Article 18 & 19 and particularly Article 50



Victorian Charter of Human Rights and Responsibilities Act 2006 s14 & s15

Constitution

COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA CONSTITUTION ACT - SECT 118
Recognition of laws etc. of States
Full faith and credit shall be given, throughout the Commonwealth to the laws, the public Acts and records, and the judicial proceedings of every State.

Section 118 provides assistance to use the Victorian Charter of Human Rights in states that do not have a Charter.
 
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SeaEagleRock8

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100% agree .... but who decides what constitutes bigotry? ..... I am cetain that there are thousands, some even members of Silvertails .... that believe that Folau's actions were motivated by love and that his only crime was to attempt to save the souls of the sinful ......

You and Andrew Webster may well believe he was bigoted ... doesn't make you correct ... the Rev. Fred Nile might cheer him as a champion of light and a savour ...... and that equally doesn't make him correct ...
Yes ... but that wasn't the question .... I agree that a company has the right to decide on the suitability of employees .... just not sure that they are the best equiped to decide what constitutes bigotry ... or become the nations social and moral compass .......
Incorrect! Under our economic system just as the company decides who gets a job and who doesn't, the company decides what is bigotry and what is not.
(He's not rugby, not even Australia, but I'm sure you've heard of Colin Kaepernick- can't get a start).
 

SeaEagleRock8

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Hi SeaEagleRock8 hope you are well.

Mate, in regards to authorities that maybe relied upon to substantiate freedom of expression there are numerous....


DPP v Kaba [2014] VSC 52 Bell J talks about this at lengths and Australia's responsibilities to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) see paragraphs 90-94 in his decision.


See ICCPR Article 18 & 19 and particularly Article 50



Victorian Charter of Human Rights and Responsibilities Act 2006 s14 & s15

Constitution

COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA CONSTITUTION ACT - SECT 118
Recognition of laws etc. of States
Full faith and credit shall be given, throughout the Commonwealth to the laws, the public Acts and records, and the judicial proceedings of every State.

Section 118 provides assistance to use the Victorian Charter of Human Rights in states that do not have a Charter.
Hi mate, can you translate that for me? My eyes are tired!
 

SeaEagleRock8

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Hi M


Hi Mate ditto.....
Lol come on I'm not going to chase down any links at this time of day, I've just got home and there's about a half hour window to consider ST burning issues, just give me one reference, one quote! lol
 

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