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The Folau Saga ... or Castle's Catastrophy

niccipops

un echidna spillo mia bevanda
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Seems

Actually on a serious note I am making available a section of bush area [ forested ] on my humble land holding to a local koala protection group to try and help their preservation . Hope that there can be more of it taking place . As for the drinking and fornicating in the same habitat , i am basically in the live and let live mindset and would really depend then on how much can a koala bear.
That's great news. Good on ya.
This little guy appreciates what you're doing. He's one of the current joeys at Currumbin Sanctuary.
ball of cute..jpeg
 

manly al

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Hi Manly al, my opinion on this issue has little to no relevance. We all have an opinion, and these topics are no different to politics and religion. They just create a great deal of controversy, and the arguments for and against have great merit. The arguments could go on for many years to come. I am deeply vested in law, however, Human Rights absorbs a great deal of my work so my views will always be bias (If you don't fight for your rights you don't have any).

Firstly, I was responding to a post that was wanting to be shown through legislation or common law where our rights are legislated (this really had nothing to do with Izzy's legal matter to start with).

But since you have asked my friend (although the post was not intended to assert any foundation in the Izzy case, rather an observation of our rights at law), It may have extensive and great relevance, particularly if the limbs of Article 19 are combined with Article 18

Article 18

1. Everyone shall have the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion. This right shall include freedom to have or to adopt a religion or belief of his choice, and freedom, either individually or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in worship, observance, practice and teaching.

2. No one shall be subject to coercion which would impair his freedom to have or to adopt a religion or belief of his choice.

3. Freedom to manifest one's religion or beliefs may be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary to protect public safety, order, health, or morals or the fundamental rights and freedoms of others.

4. The States Parties to the present Covenant undertake to have respect for the liberty of parents and, when applicable, legal guardians to ensure the religious and moral education of their children in conformity with their own convictions.

No contract can be enforceable if it breaches the element of legality. Having terms or conditions that encroach an individual's rights, are sufficient grounds to render the agreement/contract unenforceable or invalid. If the invalid clause can be read down and the contract can remain on foot, then a court may allow for the existence of the contract (minus the offending terms and conditions). Should that not be achieved, the courts will generally terminate/rescind the contract as a whole.
Thanks for your very interesting and even fascinating reply , good to get a broad perspective and insight on such a wide ranging topic . Probably just as well in the Falou matter that it was settled in that manner , as you alluded to , a complexed issue like that could have dragged on for years taking all of the pertaining legal and basic civil rights considerations into account . Certainly would require some very knowledgeable and well versed legal minds to resolve a case like that . Just so many facets to try to reconcile and make judgements on , civil rights and liberties and free speech , the right of an organization to mitigate commercial brand damage , what constitutes hate speech , the right of an organization to uphold the terms of their contracts and probably many more aspects as well . Personally find footy and Manly footy related matters as my main interest on here but again really good also to have sensible and knowledgeable insights and perspectives into other [ and certainly society related ] topics as well .
 

urulion

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Thanks for your very interesting and even fascinating reply , good to get a broad perspective and insight on such a wide ranging topic . Probably just as well in the Falou matter that it was settled in that manner , as you alluded to , a complexed issue like that could have dragged on for years taking all of the pertaining legal and basic civil rights considerations into account . Certainly would require some very knowledgeable and well versed legal minds to resolve a case like that . Just so many facets to try to reconcile and make judgements on , civil rights and liberties and free speech , the right of an organization to mitigate commercial brand damage , what constitutes hate speech , the right of an organization to uphold the terms of their contracts and probably many more aspects as well . Personally find footy and Manly footy related matters as my main interest on here but again really good also to have sensible and knowledgeable insights and perspectives into other [ and certainly society related ] topics as well .
Thanking you for such a great chat. Manly footy matters should be all our main interests and common ground, particularly giving the premiership a nice shake in 2020.

Further, leaving all that to one side, it is refreshing to read that you are assisting in the protection and preservation of Koala's. Congratulations my friend, I have always been taught if every individual in this world took the time to assist just one other being, eighty percent of the difficulties that surround the globe would not exist. Well done!!
 

manly al

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Thanking you for such a great chat. Manly footy matters should be all our main interests and common ground, particularly giving the premiership a nice shake in 2020.

Further, leaving all that to one side, it is refreshing to read that you are assisting in the protection and preservation of Koala's. Congratulations my friend, I have always been taught if every individual in this world took the time to assist just one other being, eighty percent of the difficulties that surround the globe would not exist. Well done!!
Cheers for that . Actually the koala population [ poor buggers ] have been doing it tough in my part of N Q for quite some decades now . Apparently quite some time ago, some lethal form of an eye skin disease wiped out huge population swathes and really depleted the numbers . Plus all of the inevitable development on larger and smaller scales . Populations are slowly recovering but really need all the help to maintain this . Proper management of their natural habitat is pretty crucial as well . The majority of my property does not have vegetation but also ensure that in the vegetated - timbered [ eucalypt ] areas that it is always lightly grazed to reduce the fuel load [ and bush fire threat ] take out dead trees [ and mill the better logs for home use ]Pretty simple stuff and measures really but a win , win all round and very importantly of course again to eliminate that bloody fire damage which of course is just so devastating not only to Koalas but wild life in general . Concur with assisting or trying to assist one another even in a small way , it seems to have a multiplier effect for the good in most instances also .
 

manly al

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Not gunna lie, I've been reading @manly al and @urulion 's last few posts in a high British accent.
Fair enough and i guess that it all a matter of context but am sure that pomposity is a trait that neither @urulion or myself possess . Don 't have any British ancestry in any case but quite partial to the better type of British comedy
 

Woodsie

played strong, done good.
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Not gunna lie, I've been reading @manly al and @urulion 's last few posts in a high British accent.
Personnally ... my mental image of @urulion was of a craggy old salt holding court over a bottle of
Château Thames Embankment, or Château Fleet Street, at Jack Pommeroy's ... which of course was put 'on the slate' until the next Legal Aid cheque comes in.
 

urulion

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143
Who was it that was speculating on which teams would be trying to sign Izzy?

It appears we have a winner; Danny Weilder is reporting in the SMH that the donkeys are making enquires with the NRL about the possibility of signing him.

And the lies continue.... In no way am I convinced that Izzy settled for around $2.5 mil as stated by Weidler.
 
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Woodsie

played strong, done good.
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And the lies continue.... In no way am I convinced that Izzy settled for around $2.5 mil as stated by Weidler.
I know you are simply pondering .... but do you ponder more or less ?
 

Briza

Maroon and White - Born and Bred
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Cheers for that . Actually the koala population [ poor buggers ] have been doing it tough in my part of N Q for quite some decades now . Apparently quite some time ago, some lethal form of an eye skin disease wiped out huge population swathes and really depleted the numbers . Plus all of the inevitable development on larger and smaller scales . Populations are slowly recovering but really need all the help to maintain this . Proper management of their natural habitat is pretty crucial as well . The majority of my property does not have vegetation but also ensure that in the vegetated - timbered [ eucalypt ] areas that it is always lightly grazed to reduce the fuel load [ and bush fire threat ] take out dead trees [ and mill the better logs for home use ]Pretty simple stuff and measures really but a win , win all round and very importantly of course again to eliminate that bloody fire damage which of course is just so devastating not only to Koalas but wild life in general . Concur with assisting or trying to assist one another even in a small way , it seems to have a multiplier effect for the good in most instances also .
They're on a slow decline in my area which is considered the "koala capital" of Australia, unfortunately there's very few of the required Eucalypt on my property.
There is however a healthy population in the state Forest which borders my land.
 

Mark from Brisbane

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Why?
(I wouldn't have a clue)
He was going for 14 million , I’m thinking they probably offered him half , and he’s bargained them a bit.

Just a guess but it would be a LOT more than 2.5 million.
 
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MuzztheEagle

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He was going for 14 million , I’m thinking they probably offered him half , and he’s bargained you a bit.

Just a guess but it would be a LOT more than 2.5 million.
Unless, someone told him he wasn't going to win. I imagine that the ACC wouldn't want a high profile case like this resulting in a loss and/or questions being asked about the validity of faith based arguments.
If the government passes the sort of laws they are after then they win. But the result of this trial could act as a negative regardless of the result: Folau wins, then we didn't need these laws in the first place. RA wins, then there could be a (high profile) case which falls outside of or negates the act (if it ever gets through). Plus Izzy, probably wants to get back to playing some sort of professional sport and I imagine clubs would be far more willing to sign him without the ongoing legal drama that surrounds him.
I would guess that RA wanted to get this over with ASAP but to know who was the more willing party you would need to be directly involved in the case.
 

MadMarcus

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I’m not privy to the contents and clauses of the club’s/ NRL‘s contracts, so it might already be contained in the player’s contracts, but Manly could have benefitted by being able to enforce a code of conduct on our players, which I assume the club has, if another Gladstone type incident was to occur and termination of the player’s contract was warranted.
Unless of course the player claims it’s his religion to go to the rippers and bash his teammates on the sabbath
 

urulion

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I know you are simply pondering .... but do you ponder more or less ?
Hey Woodsie hope you are well mate,

Yes it is purely speculation but much more than $2.5 mil. In my view, several things stand out which provides scope for an extensively greater payout sum. Regardless of what the RA is getting journos to write to protect their backsides.

1) RA stating a settlement was ideal to reduce further legal costs is absolute baloney in my view (in this particular case). This gave RA an opportunity to prove a point and intimidate any future player contemplating legal action against RA. It would have created an image that they litigate for what they believe and stand by their rules, terms, conditions and expectations. If they wanted to make a business decision and save $$$ on costs, then why did they not settle at mediation?

2) The major sponsor of RA Qantas, via the CEO, made comments that they took umbrage to Izzy's comments. RA would have had no choice but to pursue this and show the world at large that they had every right to terminate Izzy's contract, however, they settled the matter WHY?

3) We are not privy to the application/defence/originating motions/supporting evidence etc but it stands out very clearly that Izzy had something substantial, otherwise why would you settle? You win the case and ask for costs if you are confident. Costs on an indemnity basis is around 90% of your legal costs, so there is no problem if they believed Izzy had no case (they would continue and test their case).

4) In my view Izzy would not accept $2.5 mil to settle, he had initiated the application so he was prepared to fight the good fight. Then the application was amended to $14 mil in damages to provide the threshold for RA to meet the desired $7 mil - $9 mil sum Izzy was seeking (again in my view).

I believe good mate @Mark from Brisbane is on the money and in my humble opinion the settlement would have been between $7-$9mil with each party paying their own costs and confidentiality clauses inserted in the settlement agreement.
 
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Bearfax

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Fair dinkum this is a perfect example of Dumb (Folau) and Dumber (Castle and the ARU). What Folau said over the net was discriminatory and he needed to be taken to task specifically on those grounds. But the over reaction of the ARU was strategically stupid. Fine him, suspend him for a while, but to exile him was crazy. There are so many far more serious indiscretions we hear about, many involving serious violence, treated far less severely than what happened to Folau. Where is perspective. Where is balance.
 

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