The DES-urrection of Manly

[The Who]

I agree totally I could not believe why Des moved Walker from Centre - being our best Centre to FB weakening one area and not really improving FB at all. I couldn't understand that at all. I would have kept Harper there. I totally agree also that I believe Des has made mistakes. I also have been very critical of some players and wanted them dropped and replaced at years end. I also have said that my assessment of some of those players now was harsh and they are playing fabulously well and far above my belief of their talents. I am sure Des doesn't sit there and think... gee I will be stubborn just for the sake of it and to hell with winning. Again he sees things we have no idea about. Again I come back to my point... Des knows far far more about footy , this club and these players than the collective lot of us on ST know. I hated him when he went to the Bulldogs - despised him. I was not supportive at all of him coming back because of what he did to us when he left. But I do believe in his coaching abilities. I had no faith in Barrett - way out of his depth. Des is still a snake I think and all about him at the end of the day but I do believe he is an elite coach. Just my view.

All good.
Let's concentrate on the future. Now that we know what many of our 'lesser lights' are capable of we all are starting to feel enthusiastic about forcing our way up the ladder.
I actually think we can be the team that stops the winning run of The 'Riff. What we will have to do is match the speed of Penrith; they play up-tempo RL and run opposition teams ragged.

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

All good.
Let's concentrate on the future. Now that we know what many of our 'lesser lights' are capable of we all are starting to feel enthusiastic about forcing our way up the ladder.
I actually think we can be the team that stops the winning run of The 'Riff. What we will have to do is match the speed of Penrith; they play up-tempo RL and run opposition teams ragged.

Yes agreed - I truly believe we are a huge chance to beat them. I actually think if we keep playing like we are with no injuries to significant players and we can beat anyone at the moment.

 

[rmd]

The team would have practised most pre-season with Turbo at FB and plays would have been structured around it.

It probably would have been DCE right side with Siro, Suli and Saab. Foran at left side with Jake, Walker and Garrick, with Turbo roaming left and right.

If Siro was ball playing like he can, but hasn’t recently (cutting back in), you effectively have two ball players right and three left side.

Harper has been playing so well, especially his defence and his deft touches diffusing kicks, Des couldn’t drop him for Suli surely.

I can’t see Des changing the side for the Panthers match and how they perform against the best will influence the future team for the year. Those under pressure will be Saab, Harper, Parker Guac, Toff and Keppie.

I didn’t include Croker or Cust as I believe in Des’s eyes they are first choice for the moment.

 

[Kevinward777]

All good.
Let's concentrate on the future. Now that we know what many of our 'lesser lights' are capable of we all are starting to feel enthusiastic about forcing our way up the ladder.
I actually think we can be the team that stops the winning run of The 'Riff. What we will have to do is match the speed of Penrith; they play up-tempo RL and run opposition teams ragged.

They will need to win in a much different fashion than the last two weeks I imagine. Penrith are Melbourne like in the way they grind the opposition into dust.

They are beatable, but it will take some doing.

 

[47MVEagle]

In regards to blooding our younger talent sooner, what you have to remember is that there were no lower grade comps last year due to COVID.

Schuster debuted against the Tigers but went off injured after 65 minutes.

Albert Hoppa got his chance & proved to not be up to much.

So in Des' ultra-cautious mind, he probably thought the likes of Jetski, Sirro & Suli were more match fit than Schuster, Olakau'atu & Harper, who were either returning from injuries or had no reserve grade time to stay match fit.

I reckon Des intended to bring these guys into the squad after a couple more weeks, so he was probably really only forced to make these changes a couple of weeks sooner than planned.

As for Walker at fullback, I think Des took a gamble there, thinking someone with the X factor like Walker could make a good go of it until Turbo returned. It didn't work out but it is what it is & now here we are.

 

[frank stokes]

Alvarez is unbelievable - Saunders is 30 and 0, a two weight champion, and a hard as nails gypsy to boot. Should be a great fight.

Ok that sounds like a fight I can take an interest in...

 

[frank stokes]

let's agree, that given the difference in both form and results with and without Tom over the past 27 weeks ... it wouldn't have made any difference if we had Daffy Duck coaching the team ..

And there is the rub ... The entire team have played like busted bums for 15 games ... and suddenly back to stars in one week

All the points you mention I believe fall to the coach to fix or eliminate or drop to reserve grade ... but my biggest issue is the lack of a satisfactory fullback replacement (ignoring the hooker situation) ... since the days of Snake, and all the days of Tom, Dessie has known we fall off a cliff when they are missing, and this is his 3rd year in charge ... and we have done bumkiss about it ..

Perhaps he thought Funa, Harper, Garrick Walker or one of the kids would step up ... if he did, I think he gambled and lost ...

Anyway, enough worrying for one day ... for the time being Tommy and Manly are back ... but I find that I have an urgent urge to fold up into the fetal position every time I hear the word hamstring ..

There was a point about 15-20 min in where I swear I saw Tom put his hand on his left hamstring in backplay and I almost vomited... maybe I was seeing things or my mind played tricks on me but it was before he made his linebreak to put DCE in which is when I knew that he was all good...

 

[rmd]

I think this week will determine positions.

If Harper stands up against Kikau like he did against Fifita, Suli will find it difficult to come back in NRL, except maybe on the wing against Saab which, with his improvement in combinations, may be difficult.

We’ll see how they go against the Panthers and I have this sneaking feeling they will win in Bathurst and wreck the Panthers winning streak and they’ll win well. Call me optimistic however, the Panthers are playing egotistical while the Eagles are now playing tough.

 

[Highflier]

There was a point about 15-20 min in where I swear I saw Tom put his hand on his left hamstring in backplay and I almost vomited... maybe I was seeing things or my mind played tricks on me but it was before he made his linebreak to put DCE in which is when I knew that he was all good...

i saw that as well and immediately felted hot , sweaty and nauseated ,its edge of the seat stuff .

 

[frank stokes]

i saw that as well and immediately felted hot , sweaty and nauseated ,its edge of the seat stuff .

I had to rewatch the replay to make sure I wasn't seeing things but there it was 19 min in after fielding a kick...

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Shane ... since the first game in 2020 until now, there have been 27 games ..

Dessies record for those 27 games is ..

When tom has played he has won 78%, the only 2 losses to ladder leaders Melb and Parra

When Tom hasn't played he has won just 16% ..

SO, if a coaches record goes from 78% to 16% based on the availability of one player ... I think any reasonable person would have doubts regarding the value of the coaching ...

Simple question ... who do you think is more important to our success, Tom or Dessie .. would love to keep both ... but on those figures it is not even a contest

You make it sound simple so either it is simple or maybe you think we are all simple??

Either way, here's a simple question...

In 16 seasons coaching NRL Des Hasler's teams have made the finals 13 times from 16, which is 81% of the time.
In 5 full seasons (not counting his debut year part way through 2015) Turbo Tommy's teams have made finals twice from 5, which is 40% of the time.

So. Who do you think is more important to our success? Hint, on those figures it's not even a contest.

 

[Eaglehauser]

You make it sound simple so either it is simple or maybe you think we are all simple??

Either way, here's a simple question...

In 16 seasons coaching NRL Des Hasler's teams have made the finals 13 times from 16, which is 81% of the time.
In 5 full seasons (not counting his debut year part way through 2015) Turbo Tommy's teams have made finals twice from 5, which is 40% of the time.

So. Who do you think is more important to our success? Hint, on those figures it's not even a contest.

Cant we just love them both

 

[Kevinward777]

You make it sound simple so either it is simple or maybe you think we are all simple??

Either way, here's a simple question...

In 16 seasons coaching NRL Des Hasler's teams have made the finals 13 times from 16, which is 81% of the time.
In 5 full seasons (not counting his debut year part way through 2015) Turbo Tommy's teams have made finals twice from 5, which is 40% of the time.

So. Who do you think is more important to our success? Hint, on those figures it's not even a contest.

BOOM!

 

[Kevinward777]

Cant we just love them both
View attachment 17893

Some of us do.

 

[court83]

I think this week will determine positions.

If Harper stands up against Kikau like he did against Fifita, Suli will find it difficult to come back in NRL, except maybe on the wing against Saab which, with his improvement in combinations, may be difficult.

We’ll see how they go against the Panthers and I have this sneaking feeling they will win in Bathurst and wreck the Panthers winning streak and they’ll win well. Call me optimistic however, the Panthers are playing egotistical while the Eagles are now playing tough.

THIS^^^^

That's how I see it as well, penny have shown up expecting to just strut their way to a victory against the Broncos and knights and almost paid for it .. Broncos are absolutely toothless and only lost by last minute try.. if they play that way against the Manly of the last 2 weeks they will get torn apart

 

[Woodsie]

You make it sound simple so either it is simple or maybe you think we are all simple??

Either way, here's a simple question...

In 16 seasons coaching NRL Des Hasler's teams have made the finals 13 times from 16, which is 81% of the time.
In 5 full seasons (not counting his debut year part way through 2015) Turbo Tommy's teams have made finals twice from 5, which is 40% of the time.

So. Who do you think is more important to our success? Hint, on those figures it's not even a contest.

Which is why I didn't compare teams from different eras , with different players .. eg. a team that contained players like our 2008 team is vastly different from our 20/21 team ...

So my stats for the past 27 games with an all but an identical roster is a far more accurate and significant data base for the compilation of meaningful statistics ...

If I go to this year alone ... Games won with Tommy ... 100% .... Games won without Tommy 20% ... however with only 7 games this is too small a data sample to use other than for fun ..

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

All good.
Let's concentrate on the future. Now that we know what many of our 'lesser lights' are capable of we all are starting to feel enthusiastic about forcing our way up the ladder.
I actually think we can be the team that stops the winning run of The 'Riff. What we will have to do is match the speed of Penrith; they play up-tempo RL and run opposition teams ragged.

Can you imagine the media if we were to stop the Panfers in their tracks ??

Highly unlikely I know but anything is possible.

There’s no doubt they will get rattled if we were to say score three quick try’s and lead 18-0.

 

[Woodsie]

Can you imagine the media if we were to stop the Panfers in their tracks ??

Highly unlikely I know but anything is possible.

There’s no doubt they will get rattled if we were to say score three quick try’s and lead 18-0.

We have a fighting chance ... if we stay with the same power forwards bench I am expecting trench warfare ... very very interesting game ahead ...

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

So my stats for the past 27 games with an all but an identical roster is a far more accurate and significant data base for the compilation of meaningful statistics ...

Your entire premise is flawed... namely, "based on the availability of one player". As if that was the only point of difference in those games. Didn't take account of other players in or out of our teams, didn't take account of the opposition, didn't take account of any of the untold factors that can affect an NRL sides performance week to week. Such as mid-season rule changes. Say, why didn't you include 2019, the roster was pretty similar then too?

Of course Tommy makes a massive difference. And of course you are entitled to think Des can't coach any more, quite a few here have suggested that's the case.
I haven't seen any evidence of that myself. And I'm definitely not swayed by your flawed syllogism!

 

[Kevinward777]

Your entire premise is flawed... namely, "based on the availability of one player". As if that was the only point of difference in those games. Didn't take account of other players in or out of our teams, didn't take account of the opposition, didn't take account of any of the untold factors that can affect an NRL sides performance week to week. Such as mid-season rule changes. Say, why didn't you include 2019, the roster was pretty similar then too?

Of course Tommy makes a massive difference. And of course you are entitled to think Des can't coach any more, quite a few here have suggested that's the case.
I haven't seen any evidence of that myself. And I'm definitely not swayed by your flawed syllogism!

I nominate this guy to be the captain of the first Silvertails debating team - the fine fellow is giant of reason and logic.