The Daly Cherrygraph

[Seagles68]

The was no bigger Grub than the one of the many ones Arko signed to win our first premiership
The most Intimidating and talented ruthless grub of his time
The Manly Legend Mal Reilly

The Frear full Sea eagle Mal Reilly

Yes, I'd be lying if I said i did not enjoy those times but that was a different era and I think our definition of grub has had to be, well, redefined. I think the Les Boyd approach was great at times but I have to confess, he did some things that I had to draw the line on. And it's good that those days are behind us. Having said that, we need some definite starch in the forwards and we need to seek out the local Manly pharmacist for some angry (controlled) pills. You know, something that wears off after 100 mins and has no lasting effect. I still want Paseka to go home and hug his wife and kids!

 

[Bearfax]

Its not whats reported in news articles . Went from 940k to 1.1 seems to be the numbers if true, seems he has a % increase linked to the cap as DCE has i thought. If so and the cap goes to 12 m DCE could be close to 1.5 next season if his 12 - 13 % cap hit is close to the mark

there are stacks of articles about it . I didnt see any that supported cleary being on more.

the 1.1 m deal hasnt started yet

What Nathan Cleary’s $5.5 million mega deal means for the future of Panthers

Nathan is the centrepiece of a jigsaw puzzle that is becoming increasingly difficult for the premiers to piece together.

www.smh.com.au

 

[BOZO]

Yes, I'd be lying if I said i did not enjoy those times but that was a different era and I think our definition of grub has had to be, well, redefined. I think the Les Boyd approach was great at times but I have to confess, he did some things that I had to draw the line on. And it's good that those days are behind us. Having said that, we need some definite starch in the forwards and we need to seek out the local Manly pharmacist for some angry (controlled) pills. You know, something that wears off after 100 mins and has no lasting effect. I still want Paseka to go home and hug his wife and kids!

Different era yes but not different in the aggressive and relentless approach to the game by the great enforces of the leading packs

 

[Marto1970]

Therein lies the problem. We are paying top dollar for a halfback who isn't elite level, so we have no cap room left to put players around him to cover deficiencies and make us premiership contenders. I'm not sure that Cleary or Hynes or Hunt or Moses would win a premiership with that side either. But I think we would get better value for money from them. Have to look at big picture, DCE's paypacket, his performance, and the knock on effect to cap restraints aren't all mutually exclusive variables. Get a cheaper half, have money to spend elsewhere to strengthen squad.....better overall result ?? who knows ? But we aren't likely to find out for 3 more years

Anyway it's a circular argument here. Seems like there are plenty who are content with paying elite money for a someone whose best quality is trying his guts out each week but doesn't have the elite game his money commands. If you are happy with the situation where we can't boost our squad quality because of DCE overspend then so be it. It will stop us getting a spoon, but unlikely to win us a premiership. Tommy is in same boat to an extent with his injury history, but at least we know with Tommy that he can deliver and is one of the games elite players when on the park.

Which one of those halves are going to be cheaper

 

[Bearfax]

he'd want to be "pretty good" given he is/was the highest paid player in the league. but unfortunately pretty good doesn't win you premierships when most of the eggs are in your basket. i'll give him props for finishing that high up Dally M leaderboard, was higher than I expected. but still 3 other halfbacks in front of him and Cleary would have covered him if not for suspension - so yes in top "few" halfbacks as you would expect, but not in the top tier as usual.

interesting stat that on the halfbacks and premierships - I can't see DCE breaking that trend though unfortunately.

C & C your comment about DCE not being any better than pretty good is an opinion not shared by most keen judges of the game. Getting a cheaper half, to fill one of the most important roles in the team, will diminish your team's effectiveness even if you can pick up good players for other positions. I really get concerned about this constant attack on DCE about his salary when he was not at fault for the offer being made. He had signed at the Titans for the same money, just a shorter duration. What do we do, offer him several hundred thousands less per year and expect him to come back. Manly blundered and paid the price. Then we forget Manly blundered again with their use of the salary cap and ended up losing available monies of $660,000 from their salary cap from 2018 for two years, virtually shutting the door on recruitment of any worth. Should we also look at Turbo and his worth given his $1.1 million per season contract, especially given in the past four years he has been on the field for less than 50% of the games. Perhaps we should get a cheap option for full back as well. And then there's Jake on $900,000 a year. Maybe we should sell him off for a cheaper forward. Value for money on the field DCE has been wroth more than the Trbojevics over the last 4 years

 

[Bearfax]

What Nathan Cleary’s $5.5 million mega deal means for the future of Panthers

Nathan is the centrepiece of a jigsaw puzzle that is becoming increasingly difficult for the premiers to piece together.

www.smh.com.au

And actually another reports suggests Cleary is now on $1.3 million a season, which exceeds DCE's contract. And to get it all in perspective Brooks and Moses are on $950,000 a year, Hunt and Ponga are on $1.1 million a year. Hardly makes DCE's contract so out of the ordinary.

 

[Damien2812]

My problem with DCE is his contract isn't value for money on what he delivers on field. Manly can't seen to sign any good 1st graders that DCE relies on to play his best footy since he can't do it on his own. So at this stage of his career the club should have parted ways with him because what's been happening since he signed that lucrative deal hasn't really worked for the club. The club needs a reset on how it's spending it's cap money so we can sign some decent 1st graders instead of relying on NSW cup/reserve graders that us fans have never heard of.

 

[jbb/james]

And actually another reports suggests Cleary is now on $1.3 million a season, which exceeds DCE's contract. And to get it all in perspective Brooks and Moses are on $950,000 a year, Hunt and Ponga are on $1.1 million a year. Hardly makes DCE's contract so out of the ordinary.

Did you see the table in the article you posted

are you ignoring dce could be on 1.5 next year

 

[Highflier]

What Nathan Cleary’s $5.5 million mega deal means for the future of Panthers

Nathan is the centrepiece of a jigsaw puzzle that is becoming increasingly difficult for the premiers to piece together.

www.smh.com.au

Just looking at that article and then comparing our players relative to what the Panfers have

		Penriff 2022​	Penriff 2023​		Manly2022		Manly 2023
half	Cleary	1100000​	1300000​	DCE	1200000​	DCE	1200000​
FR	JFH	850000​	850000​	Marty	800000​	Jake/?	900000​
Lock	Yeo	600000​	600000​	Jake	900000​	?/Jake	0​
half	Luai	750000​	750000​	Foz	250000​	Schu	300000​
FB	Dylan	500000​	500000​	TT	1100000​	TT	1100000​
Cntr	Crichton	600000​	600000​	Scorpio	275000​	Scorpio	275000​
Wing	Tooó	400000​	400000​	Rueben	275000​	Rueben	275000​
2nd R	Liam M	400000​	400000​	Oka	300000​	Oka	300000​
2nd R	Kikau	700000​	700000​	Davey	200000​	Tuilagi	250000​
Hooker	Api	400000​	400000​	Froggy	300000​	Froggy	300000​
		6300000​	6400000​		5600000​		4900000​

Thought I would compare that Riff table to Manly ,I maybe a bit out with some of those salaries (Rueben, Oka especially as I have no idea just a guess) ,but you would think we could still rustle up enough shekels to get a Spencer Leniu standard front rower .If we do get someone like Spencer maybe Jake goes back to lock. I still think Bullemore is a Prop and should be given more than the odd game there to prove himself ,which would mean we could try and get a close to top shelf 9, assuming there is one there to be got.

 

[Rafferty]

Maybe its not so much the cap and how we use it or how the Rorters and others appear to use it, it’s as clear as looking through muddy water that some clubs have the administrative acumen to find legal ways to circumvent cap restrictions.

We need creative people with suitable qualifications, connections and the ability to make us competitive in the player market. I realise TPA’s are part of the problem, we don’t have the right support or more importantly wealthy individuals associated with our club that are passionate enough to open their wallets and help us be competitive.

DCE, Cleary, who cares about their cap number, you need to find alternate ways to offset or increase the player’s financial earnings, that don’t appear on the cap or are related to TPA’s, we’ve all heard the golfing rumours (or are they) I’m not suggesting we cheat or adopt a similar scam, but surely there are legal and acceptable ways the club can explore to make us more commercially competitive in the player market.

Its not rocket science that some clubs have obviously figured out means to achieve better playing rosters and until we can become more commercially competitive in this regard, we are going to have trouble building a squad beyond one or two marquee signings.

 

[Bearfax]

Did you see the table in the article you posted

are you ignoring dce could be on 1.5 next year

Dont know where you got that but the article I read indicated he wlll be on $1.25 per year until 2025 which is actually less than Cleary at $1.3 million

 

[BOZO]

Maybe its not so much the cap and how we use it

Spot on !!!

 

[Marto1970]

And actually another reports suggests Cleary is now on $1.3 million a season, which exceeds DCE's contract. And to get it all in perspective Brooks and Moses are on $950,000 a year, Hunt and Ponga are on $1.1 million a year. Hardly makes DCE's contract so out of the ordinary.

I f Brookes stays at the tigers I think he is on 1.2 next year

 

[Chip and Chase]

C & C your comment about DCE not being any better than pretty good is an opinion not shared by most keen judges of the game. Getting a cheaper half, to fill one of the most important roles in the team, will diminish your team's effectiveness even if you can pick up good players for other positions. I really get concerned about this constant attack on DCE about his salary when he was not at fault for the offer being made. He had signed at the Titans for the same money, just a shorter duration. What do we do, offer him several hundred thousands less per year and expect him to come back. Manly blundered and paid the price. Then we forget Manly blundered again with their use of the salary cap and ended up losing available monies of $660,000 from their salary cap from 2018 for two years, virtually shutting the door on recruitment of any worth. Should we also look at Turbo and his worth given his $1.1 million per season contract, especially given in the past four years he has been on the field for less than 50% of the games. Perhaps we should get a cheap option for full back as well. And then there's Jake on $900,000 a year. Maybe we should sell him off for a cheaper forward. Value for money on the field DCE has been wroth more than the Trbojevics over the last 4 years

I don't blame DCE for taking the money one little bit, who wouldn't do the same in his position. My issue is with those who through some sort of convoluted logic assume he is an elite player because he is getting elite money. Or even better are willing to provide a long list of excuses for the lack of return on investment because we don't have the money to put troops around him to help him achieve because we are paying him top dollar - see the irony ? And everyone keeps saying who would you sign to replace him like that's some sort of justification of keeping him here forever ?? well quite clearly no one at the moment, that's the whole point. If you sign a player to a 10 year deal you are effectively saying to all other halves' managers to not even bother knocking on the door.

By the way Cleary only recently signed his deal, so once again another attempt at trying to deflect. It's been well documented that DCE was the highest paid player in the league for the 6 or 7 years prior to that. So big whoop DCE is now the second highest paid player in the league. I still don't think it's value for money

Which one of those halves are going to be cheaper

All of them except Cleary now. But 2 years ago he was cheaper.


Anyway this thread always ends up in the same circular argument. Let's see what the legacy of his 10 year contract ends up being, that's the litmus test. Currently it stands at one prelim final, a semi final, a qualifying final and 4 bottom 8 finishes. It may well be my problem and I just have to learn to deal with it, but I'm not content that our long term marquee player just doesn't rise to that elite level and has never had a dominant season.

 

[hozza]

Round and round and round this argument goes. Been the same since 2016.

If Dce doesn’t LEAD the team to the GF or premiership next year then his current contract (finishes in 2023) has been a complete and utter failure. And history will judge it so as @Chip and Chase stated. Nobody cares who came 4th in 2021 or 11th in 2022. And honest to god nobody gives a fuk how he plays in Origin. But as iv said this has been said over and over again. And just for the record there are many Manly supporters that are over Dce and want him gone.

 

[Bearfax]

I don't blame DCE for taking the money one little bit, who wouldn't do the same in his position. My issue is with those who through some sort of convoluted logic assume he is an elite player because he is getting elite money. Or even better are willing to provide a long list of excuses for the lack of return on investment because we don't have the money to put troops around him to help him achieve because we are paying him top dollar - see the irony ? And everyone keeps saying who would you sign to replace him like that's some sort of justification of keeping him here forever ?? well quite clearly no one at the moment, that's the whole point. If you sign a player to a 10 year deal you are effectively saying to all other halves' managers to not even bother knocking on the door.

By the way Cleary only recently signed his deal, so once again another attempt at trying to deflect. It's been well documented that DCE was the highest paid player in the league for the 6 or 7 years prior to that. So big whoop DCE is now the second highest paid player in the league. I still don't think it's value for money


All of them except Cleary now. But 2 years ago he was cheaper.


Anyway this thread always ends up in the same circular argument. Let's see what the legacy of his 10 year contract ends up being, that's the litmus test. Currently it stands at one prelim final, a semi final, a qualifying final and 4 bottom 8 finishes. It may well be my problem and I just have to learn to deal with it, but I'm not content that our long term marquee player just doesn't rise to that elite level and has never had a dominant season.

C & C no one here needs to say DCE is an elite player. The fact he's been selected for so many SOOs and tests even despite being in a team that struggles to get in the finals in recent years and the fact he is consistently so high up in the assessments of various contests such as Dally M, Fantasy Coach etc is surely saying he's rated that high by those who judge players in the game. You may not think he's an elate player, and that's your right, but I would suggest you are speaking contrary to the views of those who judge players for rep games, the Manly club and the various assessors of those contests such as Dally M etc. That is not convoluted logic, unless you are saying they are wrong and you are right...and I certainly hope you are not saying that, my friend.

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

It’s hilarious that this debate continues to go round and round in circles based on what Kent, Rothfield, Hooper and co guess what the players are being paid. People take it as gospel, do these contracts go through the journos before being lodged with the NRL combined with how much marquee player, third party etc they are on as well ?

 

[Eagles4Life]

I see Nicko just picked up the Daly M. Could of been our next half.

I know that we can't keep them all and that hindsight is a beautiful thing BUT.........
our backline (and team overall) looks a lot better if somehow we managed to retain Nicho et al

Turbo
Garrick
Gutherson
Ramien
Koula
Hynes
DCE
Schuster
Lane
Olakatua
Aloia
Korasau
Jake

Croker
Paseka
Bullemore
Keppie

 

[Marto1970]

Just looking at that article and then comparing our players relative to what the Panfers have

		Penriff 2022​	Penriff 2023​		Manly2022		Manly 2023
half	Cleary	1100000​	1300000​	DCE	1200000​	DCE	1200000​
FR	JFH	850000​	850000​	Marty	800000​	Jake/?	900000​
Lock	Yeo	600000​	600000​	Jake	900000​	?/Jake	0​
half	Luai	750000​	750000​	Foz	250000​	Schu	300000​
FB	Dylan	500000​	500000​	TT	1100000​	TT	1100000​
Cntr	Crichton	600000​	600000​	Scorpio	275000​	Scorpio	275000​
Wing	Tooó	400000​	400000​	Rueben	275000​	Rueben	275000​
2nd R	Liam M	400000​	400000​	Oka	300000​	Oka	300000​
2nd R	Kikau	700000​	700000​	Davey	200000​	Tuilagi	250000​
Hooker	Api	400000​	400000​	Froggy	300000​	Froggy	300000​
		6300000​	6400000​		5600000​		4900000​

Thought I would compare that Riff table to Manly ,I maybe a bit out with some of those salaries (Rueben, Oka especially as I have no idea just a guess) ,but you would think we could still rustle up enough shekels to get a Spencer Leniu standard front rower .If we do get someone like Spencer maybe Jake goes back to lock. I still think Bullemore is a Prop and should be given more than the odd game there to prove himself ,which would mean we could try and get a close to top shelf 9, assuming there is one there to be got.

Penrith winger Staines asking $400

 

[Mal Cochrane]

You're just reinforcing my argument. If you're blaming DCE for the plight of the side's failings, how is it he was so effective in SOO or 2011-15 or for that matter last year. As I suggested I dont think he's a great ball player. That's not his strength. But if you're going to blame him, what about the rest of the team. Even Foran, despite, as so many have stated and which I agree with, has played very well and consistently, yet where is his impact. If you dont have the cattle, or they are too inexperienced or they are just not setting themselves correctly in attack, defense and general strategies, you cant expect even the best player to shine. And yet as was pointed out DCE was near the leaders in the Dally M this year by Round 20 and was equal fourth last year. In the Fantasy Coaching assessments which is based on stats including negative play in 2021 he and Turbo were the only two Manly players in the top ratings and this year DCE was alone in top ratings. Of course some Silvertails see it differently, but if those who are considered experts and the stats point to his worth, where does that place our perspective. I know I'm no expert that's why I dont only look at things from my point of view. I check stats and I check what others are saying who know the game better than I do.

Huh?? Foran doesn't take up the large slice of the salary cap, somewhat allowing manly to afford a few more better than average players. I think he has more than earned his money on and off the field. If Foran was taking up too much of the cap for the performance he was delivering, sure, there wld be questions about his worth also.

Isn't the point mainly that Manly pay way too much for an eyes up/off the cuff half, that provides zero field placement/team direction like good halves do, kicks down fullbacks/wingers throat nearly every kick per game, arm grabs in tackles and requires assistance from others as he gets dragged along, and make poor decisions in defence in our own 20, and that Manly have made the mistake of putting too many eggs in DCE's basket