The Daly Cherrygraph

[Eagle 1]

Don"t think that anyone is doubting D C E "s overall ability and skill level , just value for money . Or more pointedly value as the highest paid player currently in the game . If he was regularly or consistently producing Thurston or even Cronk level performances , week in week out at club level and with the coin he is taking out of the cap , no issue . That consistently just ain 't the case , unfortunately for Manly . Maybe closer or often not even at a Ben Hunt type level and he is on much less money and probably closer to his value . You would have seen more of Bob Fulton then me but he was in the [ and rightly so ] the immortal category with the way he could swing and influence games , Again D C E , probably one of Manly 's best all round halves but again in terms of consistency and in relation to his pay packet , quite a bit of a discrepancy and disconnect .

Well said al, the Sharks game to me was the clincher and realization that DCE is getting 1.2m under false pretences. Why all of a sudden you would want to crab in attack and BALL PLAY !! with 3min left in the game (we still had the lead ffs) then lose the ball so easily from a loose carry, game over...astonishing.

 

[sheridanstand78]

DCE is at his best when our team has an organiser and game manager, this is what we desperately need!!

 

[Eagle 1]

Well said al, the Sharks game to me was the clincher and realization that DCE is getting 1.2m under false pretences. Why all of a sudden you would want to crab in attack and BALL PLAY !! with 3min left in the game (we still had the lead ffs) then lose the ball so easily from a loose carry, game over...astonishing.

Sorry got the opposition mixed up.....should be Cowboys.

 

[Pete W]

DCE is at his best when our team has an organiser and game manager, this is what we desperately need!!

Yes this is fact. Shame we've all been saying this for years, yet I would think a number 7 getting paid 1.2mil a year should be the organiser and game manager. Herein lies the criticism directed towards DCE for all those on here who seem gobsmacked that he cops blame for our team's performances. No one is saying he's not a good player, or that others aren't also at fault... but seriously. Our team can't foot his bill and at the same time pay for his deficiencies

If he was a 6 or 9 on 800k, I'm sure our attitude to him would be completely different.

 

[jbb/james]

I cant for the life of me understand some of the hate and put down of DCE. We would be far further down the table if he hadnt been with us, given the player strength, Barrett coaching and the salary cap nonsense Manly had to endure. To me his only weakness is as a ball player. Individually he's outstanding, his kicking in general play as well as those field goals, 40/20s etc and his defense are second to none in this comp, with only Cleary's clever up and under's superior. The guy gives his all, is rarely injured and this talk about Foran and Olakau'atu shows how quickly the past, eve latst years, is forgotten when DCE and Ola were involved in a large number of attacking moves together. I would rate DCE up with Toovey as the best half I've seen playing for Manly since I first started watching back in 1965. It seems many want him as the scapegoat, the whipping boy, in a side that is not producing the goods. There are 16 other players for Manly in the game. If we dont have the cattle or experience, Bob Fulton would have struggled to get us over the line.

But thats your perspective that many do not share, which is fine of course. But why so many manly fans that are not cherry fans. Ive never seen it before , ever
Are all there perspectives wrong .

anyway, kicking game
remember shaun tait , the ausssie quick bowler. Probably the best wicket taking ball in the world at times, but bowled plenty of loose stuff that got hammered. Even his wides went for 4

thats DCE kicking game, bowls a few pearlers but his kicking game overall is poor . Too many of our kicks in a game are uncontested and merely and end to a set , mainly due to positioning.. Same reason as he doesnt ball play. He doesn't take the ball to the line to kick unless he is 10 m out and that costs us every set of 6 And is a major reason why getting into the grind is an after hours move only at manly. Great kicker, **** kicking game.im sorry but If you dont take the ball to the line your kicking game isnt even in the quarter final despite how sweet he times it. Kicking games as opposed to kicks need game awareness also, another of the big ticket items MIA

he has super skill but kicking in the NRL is a discipline , not a mood to be in , based on wind or supercoach, and at times DCE just ignores his application .he just seems either oblivious or stubborn to what level of control he needs to offer the side.and frankly its the backslappers that give him no reason to work on it . You cant please em all

PS
should we talk about short drop kicks etc

we were probably the last team to adopt this strategy and our results reflect we are in new territory. Is that kicking game ?

 

[Ryan]

Hope you're right, and Tommy can have a healthy season - it will go a LONG way to our success. I love the player, but I actually worry about his body (that sounds creepy, huh haha)

2015 - High ankle strain
2016 - Second high ankle strain (required surgery)
2017 - Medial ligament tear - knee
2017 - Syndesmosis in the ankle
2018 - Ankle sprain
2019 - Hamstring injury
2019 - Second hamstring injury
2019 - torn pectoral muscle
2020 - Third hamstring injury (grade 2)
2020 - Shoulder injury
2021 - Fourth hamstring injury (off season incident)
2021 - Slight concussion (head knock)
2022 - Shoulder dislocation

He's only 25 ! Forget footy for a second, I hope he's really keeping things in perspective and looking after himself. He's a human being first of all, and that's why these things worry me.

Hey mate, thought I'd make the effort for ya, and (it's not pretty reading either):

James Tedesco

2012 - knee (anterior cruciate ligament) - season
2013 - cracked fibula
2014 - fractured patella
2016 - shoulder injury
2016 - broken jaw
2016 - concussion
2020 - concussion (head knock)

 

[Bearfax]

Don"t think that anyone is doubting D C E "s overall ability and skill level , just value for money . Or more pointedly value as the highest paid player currently in the game . If he was regularly or consistently producing Thurston or even Cronk level performances , week in week out at club level and with the coin he is taking out of the cap , no issue . That consistently just ain 't the case , unfortunately for Manly . Maybe closer or often not even at a Ben Hunt type level and he is on much less money and probably closer to his value . You would have seen more of Bob Fulton then me but he was in the [ and rightly so ] the immortal category with the way he could swing and influence games , Again D C E , probably one of Manly 's best all round halves but again in terms of consistency and in relation to his pay packet , quite a bit of a discrepancy and disconnect .

Always difficult to compare players. Certainly Thurston and Cronk were outstanding and in some areas probably superior to DCE. But in other areas I think DCE was better than them. He was as a recall a better general kicker and defender for example. And remember you are recalling the best of those players. They also went through lean periods and its important to note Cronk has almost always played in a very well coached and skillful side. Thurston also looked good having Matt Bowen just like DCE has Turbo. Also important to remember he played for sides that came 12th, 15th and in his last year 13th in the lean years.

The other issue about money I think is unfair to blame on DCE. This has been argued over for years but in the end Manly, through some poor judgement had to end up paying overs (Cowboys were offering as much but over a shorter period). That's not DCE's problem or fault. Maybe he should have been paid less and had Manly not withdrawn the original offer which was somewhat below a million a year, this whole issue would not have arisen. And given he is rarely off injured and is generally a class act I think we've got a better deal than with some players. I reiterate, I believe Manly would have been cellar dwellers for many of the years since 2016 if he hadnt been playing for us

 

[Bearfax]

But thats your perspective that many do not share, which is fine of course. But why so many manly fans that are not cherry fans. Ive never seen it before , ever
Are all there perspectives wrong .

anyway, kicking game
remember shaun tait , the ausssie quick bowler. Probably the best wicket taking ball in the world at times, but bowled plenty of loose stuff that got hammered. Even his wides went for 4

thats DCE kicking game, bowls a few pearlers but his kicking game overall is poor . Too many of our kicks in a game are uncontested and merely and end to a set , mainly due to positioning.. Same reason as he doesnt ball play. He doesn't take the ball to the line to kick unless he is 10 m out and that costs us every set of 6 And is a major reason why getting into the grind is an after hours move only at manly. Great kicker, **** kicking game.im sorry but If you dont take the ball to the line your kicking game isnt even in the quarter final despite how sweet he times it. Kicking games as opposed to kicks need game awareness also, another of the big ticket items MIA

he has super skill but kicking in the NRL is a discipline , not a mood to be in , based on wind or supercoach, and at times DCE just ignores his application .he just seems either oblivious or stubborn to what level of control he needs to offer the side.and frankly its the backslappers that give him no reason to work on it . You cant please em all

PS
should we talk about short drop kicks etc

we were probably the last team to adopt this strategy and our results reflect we are in new territory. Is that kicking game ?

Easy to answer and I've already given hints.

One thing I notice about many on this site is the lack of big picture thinking. Who would for example attack DCE last year and question his value? If you did you're not watching the game. He was outstanding and the various measures of players supported that. Same applies to judging younger players too quickly and not allowing them to develop. Or attacking players like Walker over a difficult period of his career. Now most want to keep him. Then there's the Foran issue. So many were after his throat and bad mouthed him time and again before he returned to Manly. Suddenly he's the golden head boy. Quite frankly a lot of fans are fickle and short sighted. They seem to use the anecdotal as the general. Players go through periods of ups and downs. They all do. But suddenly because they are not quite as good as they have been they must not be trying or they are overpaid, Sorry for being so blunt but it shows time and again. These guys are not machines and I also think too often we get influenced by the here and now usually promoted by the media rather than seeing the big picture

 

[Highflier]

Easy to answer and I've already given hints.

One thing I notice about many on this site is the lack of big picture thinking. Who would for example attack DCE last year and question his value? If you did you're not watching the game. He was outstanding and the various measures of players supported that. Same applies to judging younger players too quickly and not allowing them to develop. Or attacking players like Walker over a difficult period of his career. Now most want to keep him. Then there's the Foran issue. So many were after his throat and bad mouthed him time and again before he returned to Manly. Suddenly he's the golden head boy. Quite frankly a lot of fans are fickle and short sighted. They seem to use the anecdotal as the general. Players go through periods of ups and downs. They all do. But suddenly because they are not quite as good as they have been they must not be trying or they are overpaid, Sorry for being so blunt but it shows time and again. These guys are not machines and I also think too often we get influenced by the here and now usually promoted by the media rather than seeing the big picture

Let me tell you I'm clutching my pearl necklace Bearfax
Silvertails fans,,,,, fickle ? ,,,,,,short sighted ? I mean I never !!!!!,everyone knows that STs is a central depository of all rugby league knowledge and insight .There is decades of grand final experience and expertise freely on display, cleverly picking apart players games, mental commitment and analysing the elementary faux pas's committed by the coach!!
Just sayin
The only thing you haven't mentioned Bear is our dedication to truth and facts and not inuendo, rumour, false hoods and barefaced lies ,something our keen ST's posters can spot a mile away .
Just like we can spot a good player after his 1st game off the bench where he hasn't scored 2 try's, set up 3 and saved 4 and hence is confined immediately to the dust bin of rugby league history as a plodder, imposter ,hopeless, under7s standard etc
Go Manly and Go ST's

 

[Seagles68]

Let me tell you I'm clutching my pearl necklace Bearfax
Silvertails fans,,,,, fickle ? ,,,,,,short sighted ? I mean I never !!!!!,everyone knows that STs is a central depository of all rugby league knowledge and insight .There is decades of grand final experience and expertise freely on display, cleverly picking apart players games, mental commitment and analysing the elementary faux pas's committed by the coach!!
Just sayin
The only thing you haven't mentioned Bear is our dedication to truth and facts and not inuendo, rumour, false hoods and barefaced lies ,something our keen ST's posters can spot a mile away .
Just like we can spot a good player after his 1st game off the bench where he hasn't scored 2 try's, set up 3 and saved 4 and hence is confined immediately to the dust bin of rugby league history as a plodder, imposter ,hopeless, under7s standard etc
Go Manly and Go ST's

I'm glad you didn't say suppository of knowledge.

 

[Highflier]

I'm glad you didn't say suppository of knowledge.

I admit I was thinking about it ,the misuse of that term in particular always reminds me of this hilarious visual depiction of crimes against the English language

 

[Disco]

Easy to answer and I've already given hints.

One thing I notice about many on this site is the lack of big picture thinking. Who would for example attack DCE last year and question his value? If you did you're not watching the game. He was outstanding and the various measures of players supported that. Same applies to judging younger players too quickly and not allowing them to develop. Or attacking players like Walker over a difficult period of his career. Now most want to keep him. Then there's the Foran issue. So many were after his throat and bad mouthed him time and again before he returned to Manly. Suddenly he's the golden head boy. Quite frankly a lot of fans are fickle and short sighted. They seem to use the anecdotal as the general. Players go through periods of ups and downs. They all do. But suddenly because they are not quite as good as they have been they must not be trying or they are overpaid, Sorry for being so blunt but it shows time and again. These guys are not machines and I also think too often we get influenced by the here and now usually promoted by the media rather than seeing the big picture

Can I winner a post 5 times?

 

[Eagles4Life]

I'm glad you didn't say suppository of knowledge.

We have a few suppositories of knowledge on this site. Sometimes more than a few.......

 

[Technical Coach]

Now that you mention it TC does strike me as the type of bloke to blow his self managed super on some mining speccy.

I'm more of a margin leveraged CFD's man myself, but that one's obvious.

It's only seen as speculation from outsiders due to lacking knowledge and insight.

 

[Chip and Chase]

Always difficult to compare players. Certainly Thurston and Cronk were outstanding and in some areas probably superior to DCE. But in other areas I think DCE was better than them. He was as a recall a better general kicker and defender for example. And remember you are recalling the best of those players. They also went through lean periods and its important to note Cronk has almost always played in a very well coached and skillful side. Thurston also looked good having Matt Bowen just like DCE has Turbo. Also important to remember he played for sides that came 12th, 15th and in his last year 13th in the lean years.

The other issue about money I think is unfair to blame on DCE. This has been argued over for years but in the end Manly, through some poor judgement had to end up paying overs (Cowboys were offering as much but over a shorter period). That's not DCE's problem or fault. Maybe he should have been paid less and had Manly not withdrawn the original offer which was somewhat below a million a year, this whole issue would not have arisen. And given he is rarely off injured and is generally a class act I think we've got a better deal than with some players. I reiterate, I believe Manly would have been cellar dwellers for many of the years since 2016 if he hadnt been playing for us

Cronk and Thurston regularly kept DCE out of Queensland and Australian sides. Cronk has won 2 Dally M awards and Thurston 4. So to the people who are paid to judge the relative quality of a footballer DCE isn't at their level. Both of them have also won premierships late into their career when they were expected to do the heavy lifting and be the main man. DCE is a solid halfback and when the stars align he is very good, but he isn't in their class on a consistent basis. There's the difference in my opinion.

Yes he is reliable and talks well, but I'll take a halfback who gets injured and grunts out of the side of his mouth if he delivers a premiership.

 

[Bearfax]

Let me tell you I'm clutching my pearl necklace Bearfax
Silvertails fans,,,,, fickle ? ,,,,,,short sighted ? I mean I never !!!!!,everyone knows that STs is a central depository of all rugby league knowledge and insight .There is decades of grand final experience and expertise freely on display, cleverly picking apart players games, mental commitment and analysing the elementary faux pas's committed by the coach!!
Just sayin
The only thing you haven't mentioned Bear is our dedication to truth and facts and not inuendo, rumour, false hoods and barefaced lies ,something our keen ST's posters can spot a mile away .
Just like we can spot a good player after his 1st game off the bench where he hasn't scored 2 try's, set up 3 and saved 4 and hence is confined immediately to the dust bin of rugby league history as a plodder, imposter ,hopeless, under7s standard etc
Go Manly and Go ST's

Well gosh I must be so dreadfully mistaken along with it seems most Manly members who saw things otherwise about this so maligned a player. And to think such ill informed people selected him for the SOO and tests in which he was described as outstanding by various professional judges including in such assessments as the fantasy judges based on performance and involvement per game. How utterly mistaken I must be. What is it again? 15 tests, 19 State of Origins including captaining and helping to orchestrate the latest entirely unexpected QLD win this year against supposedly the best half with a better team in Cleary. Yep I'm an idiot to believe this kid is a champion player who should be respected, even though so many others outside of a certain group in Silvertails who want to bag him, suggest otherwise. Yep I must be a fool. How can I live with myself? You're quite right to say its my opinion, mind you that seems to be shared by many of the the astute judges. But then I'm a fool and dont know anything about the game so dont take any notice of what I have to say. You obviously know better than me and it seems those who select him to higher honours. Can I get your autograph?

 

[Rafferty]

I see Nicko just picked up the Daly M. Could of been our next half.

 

[Highflier]

Well gosh I must be so dreadfully mistaken along with it seems most Manly members who saw things otherwise about this so maligned a player. And to think such ill informed people selected him for the SOO and tests in which he was described as outstanding by various professional judges including in such assessments as the fantasy judges based on performance and involvement per game. How utterly mistaken I must be. What is it again? 15 tests, 19 State of Origins including captaining and helping to orchestrate the latest entirely unexpected QLD win this year against supposedly the best half with a better team in Cleary. Yep I'm an idiot to believe this kid is a champion player who should be respected, even though so many others outside of a certain group in Silvertails who want to bag him, suggest otherwise. Yep I must be a fool. How can I live with myself? You're quite right to say its my opinion, mind you that seems to be shared by many of the the astute judges. But then I'm a fool and dont know anything about the game so dont take any notice of what I have to say. You obviously know better than me and it seems those who select him to higher honours. Can I get your autograph?

Bear the irony of the post may possibly be lost on you .
I agree with pretty much everything in your post especially with not giving players time to develop, along with support of DCE etc (i just want to know what we are paying him for 24 and 25).
I was actually very amused when you made what I thought was a massive understatement that alot of ST posters are "fickle and short sighted", I mean who would have thought, and my post just went from there.
Anyway my humour maybe an acquired taste .
All the best

 

[jbb/james]

Easy to answer and I've already given hints.

One thing I notice about many on this site is the lack of big picture thinking. Who would for example attack DCE last year and question his value? If you did you're not watching the game. He was outstanding and the various measures of players supported that. Same applies to judging younger players too quickly and not allowing them to develop. Or attacking players like Walker over a difficult period of his career. Now most want to keep him. Then there's the Foran issue. So many were after his throat and bad mouthed him time and again before he returned to Manly. Suddenly he's the golden head boy. Quite frankly a lot of fans are fickle and short sighted. They seem to use the anecdotal as the general. Players go through periods of ups and downs. They all do. But suddenly because they are not quite as good as they have been they must not be trying or they are overpaid, Sorry for being so blunt but it shows time and again. These guys are not machines and I also think too often we get influenced by the here and now usually promoted by the media rather than seeing the big picture

you are not blunt .

Its quite the hinted considering the only one you didnt mantion was DCE to justify dce kicking game. I dont disagree with your fickle statement , just think its out of place in this conversation.

there are just as many psychological analysis bits about fans traering favorite players like koalas

last season withtom playing a non kicking halfback role and jake playing mostly first receiver manly and other players like saab and garrick actually benefitted from having less DCE

someone else said it best. You cant foot his bill and then buy the skills he doesnt bring

big picture , is not blaming the fans mate,
but enjoy your day, not meant to antagonise, just talking manly

one thing i do-take from you posts. There has been a core group that have been crying lame on DCE for years, and a good crop defending his arse off. Both i like. Lately there have been flippers and floppers, and while many are flopping to my side, it feels dirty

 

[Tragic Eagle]

Well if my expectation is that our 1.2 million dollar captain should be a leader that plays a smart controlled game, thinks of how his low percentage plays affect the team at the time he rolls the dice and lifts his side when the chips are down then I am fickle and short sighted. The difference between DCE and Cronk is chalk and cheese. DCE is a great resilient athlete whereas Cronk may not be as athletic but played at the next level above consistently with vision, poise and control.