The Anthony Seibold Grievances MEGA THREAD

[frank stokes]

Not trying to be smart here just enjoy a healthy discussion…I disagree with this notion.

I think beating the likes of Penrith and the Roosters in the early rounds of the competition is nothing like trying to beat them in September.

Last year the Tigers beat Penrith in the early rounds but I don’t believe they would have done the same thing if they’d met Penrith in the finals series.

There’s an old saying that Premierships aren’t won in March and that’s because it can take the best sides a good 2/3 of the season before they prime themselves for a shot at the title. Further, teams like Penrith have big game experience and are going to have the edge under pressure. It’ll take a monumental effort from Manly to even compete against the likes of Melbourne, Penrith and the Roosters when the whips are cracking.

Not at all, I totally agree that it is a different ballgame in Sept but finals victories are built upon form, confidence and defence...

I think our defence has been pretty good since the titans game with a couple of notable exceptions... the riff put points on us and we got rolled for 20min periods against both raiders and finns...

If we can get a consistent team on the field and roll into the top 4 for finals then the confidence from those early victories over the top sides will be massive confidence boosters... they wont guarantee a victory but they sure as sh*t wont hurt our chances either...

 

[Phobia]

Everyone seems to forget that the ladder is deceiving. Byes, different draws and strength of schedules, as the season progresses, means only one ladder matters, and that's the one at the end of Round 27.

The Dragons have not shown as much as us this year. Full stop. We are a better side. The Rabbitohs are one win out of the 8. Do you think that means they're one win behind us in terms of how they've played? There aren't many sides that are consistently better than us, or will be, for the rest of the season.

I prefer statistical analysis models, such as particularly these "BS Power Rankings" on r/NRL. It picked up on Newcastle going into gear last year nearly immediately, and factored that in, unlike so many other sources. For some reason, a certain group of people here won't like the fact that we are currently the 4th best team in the comp this round according to it.

It had us in 12th for nearly the entirety of last year, a position most people would agree on, before picking up on us coming into form against Panthers, Warriors, Dogs and Tigers at the end of the year. Everyone could see that we were better then, compared to earlier that year, this showed it, but the ladder didn't, because it was too late by then.

It's still obviously a model, so of course it's never entirely accurate, but it meets the eye test most of the time, and is certainly a lot less deceiving than the ladder.

Here's the link for anyone interested.

We are not the same team we were at the back end of 2022 or for most of 2023. We are certainly a lot better. There was clearly some agendas in the club that set the direction Seibold had to take the team. A team with Koula, Saab, and Jake Trbojevic choosing to win the gritty battle through the middle, and setting the agenda to not go wide, (contrary to the belief of some here, Bennett and Bellamy have also been going wider this year) would be absolutely nuts. The club clearly wanted to play Schuster at 5/8, when clearly Des and Seibold both didn't want him there. If anything, I think Mestrov is taking the boardroom out of the playing field, and that's what has worked for us this year.

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

We are a win-and-a-half away from being 3rd on the table and we have shown that we are capable of beating the 2 standout teams this year (3 if you include rorters)... regardless of whether they are as good as past years, THIS year we have shown we CAN beat them come September...

All this does is reinforce the point that the top teams are not as dominant as previous years. Yes we beat them but can we beat them at the business end. Im not so sure. That winning culture comes from the top and our current coach does not have that winning culture in his DNA. Yet.

Oh and we need to be playing in September to beat them in September.

finally please don't mistake my thoughts as its all over. IF Seibold can do the business and make this team a winner then great, Im wrong and no one gives a crapola. My entire thought process is around what he has produced so far. Not much.

 

[maxta]

Season Report cards come out at the end of the season my feathered friend
7 out of 10 is very generous considering we have been Inconsistently on the border of the top 8
We have a top 8 team and top 8 is expectations
Over achieving and acceding expectations is top 4
Legendary Manly Status is a Grand final win
Seibold has the opportunity to gain Legendary Manly status
We all wish him luck
We all want Manly to Win
Happiness is Manly Winning

It was as a 6-7 Bozo 😅
Yeh things need to improve in key area's but I reckon if we keep healthy cattle- they "potentially " can.
We have Won games we would have lost in recent years
I feel there are still key areas to improve, particularly the physical contacts at times and allowing the opposition to control ruck tempo
Getting a legit 9 has helped, as Will a fit Turbo if he stays on the park
A fair judgement as you state will be later again, but for now that's how I see it Bozo my good man

 

[Ashton Davis]

While DCE is in great form right now, I wouldn’t class it as his career best. What he produced consistently every year from 2011-2015 was exceptional. He has had overall great seasons every now and then since then and this is becoming one of them

 

[47MVEagle]

100% wrong. I have no grudge against Seibold. I have an issue with replacing a coach with another that was not an upgrade. In the end Des went sure but to replace him with a guy surrounded by failure and expecting anything different was crazy.

once i got over the replacement i was looking forward with excitement to see what Seibold had to offer. unfortunately not much so far.

we didn't even look at the young up and comers coaches in the storm/roosters/penrith systems. we didn't look at the older successful coaches. We went with a guy that couldn't get a job in Rugby league to save himself.

Perhaps some of you are just happy with middle of the road? well congratulations thats what you have now.



Really? sorry supercoach. I will disappear into the stands to learn more about this apparently complex game.

So what’s objective about “surrounded by failure” when he did well enough at Souths for the Broncos to throw the chequebook at him for a 5 year stint? The failure he had there was due to getting white anted by the pro-Kevvie mob & he left halfway through the season but he still gets blamed for the Broncos winning the spoon that year.

What’s objective about “unfortunately not much so far” when we’re clearly showing more grit & determination than we have in the last 4 years? When we’re seeing some astute recruitment & retention actions?

What’s objective about that same hackneyed fallback of “perhaps you’re just happy with middle of the road” when that’s not the case at all?

I’m a supercoach for suggesting your dislike of Seibold is personal? Yeah, that’s objective 😂

 

[Disco]

Everyone seems to forget that the ladder is deceiving. Byes, different draws and strength of schedules, as the season progresses, means only one ladder matters, and that's the one at the end of Round 27.

To go further on this, even after 27 rounds the ladder is a bit deceiving.

The comp is truely not fair and legitimate unless we played 32 rounds with every team home and away.

Which obviously isnt viable in such a brutal sport, but anything less then that is uneven in terms of consistency.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

There’s an old saying that Premierships aren’t won in March and that’s because it can take the best sides a good 2/3 of the season before they prime themselves for a shot at the title.

You make a good point, but I'll add that all teams look different by the end of the comp. Some become increasingly broken while others progressively build cohesion and momentum. Dogs are an example of a side that currently looks to be building, not to say that will continue through to Sept.

As for Manly, we remain delicately poised I reckon. Could fall away, as some dark mode advocates are no doubt still preaching, but I see a more positive path unfolding for this bunch. Not suggesting we're shoe ins for the GF, but I'm expecting a strong finals appearance. (Which would also help attract a decent signing for next year.)

 

[LeonardCohen]

You make a good point, but I'll add that all teams look different by the end of the comp. Some become increasingly broken while others progressively build cohesion and momentum. Dogs are an example of a side that currently looks to be building, not to say that will continue through to Sept.

As for Manly, we remain delicately poised I reckon. Could fall away, as some dark mode advocates are no doubt still preaching, but I see a more positive path unfolding for this bunch. Not suggesting we're shoe ins for the GF, but I'm expecting a strong finals appearance. (Which would also help attract a decent signing for next year.)

Delicately poised is spot on. I think getting Paseka back is critical. We could probably use Croker’s tenacity and leadership too. If we can have our best players available, I can see us playing finals.

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

So what’s objective about “surrounded by failure” when he did well enough at Souths for the Broncos to throw the chequebook at him for a 5 year stint? The failure he had there was due to getting white anted by the pro-Kevvie mob & he left halfway through the season but he still gets blamed for the Broncos winning the spoon that year.

What’s objective about “unfortunately not much so far” when we’re clearly showing more grit & determination than we have in the last 4 years? When we’re seeing some astute recruitment & retention actions?

What’s objective about that same hackneyed fallback of “perhaps you’re just happy with middle of the road” when that’s not the case at all?

I’m a supercoach for suggesting your dislike of Seibold is personal? Yeah, that’s objective 😂

there is a lot to unpick there.

The Broncos made a rash decision as part of a power play to Eject Bennett. The same Bennett that has guided that club to all of its success.

Seibold in 2018 walked into a side with this roster just to name a few. A roster that had won a GF in the past 5 years and knew what success felt like.

Greg Inglis
Adam Renyolds
Sam Burgess
Damien Cook
Angus Crichton
Adam Doueihi
Dane Gagai
Alex Johnston
Cody Walker
Plus many others. Its not exactly the west tigers roster is it? He took them to 3rd on the table and made a preliminary final. Possible underachievement? but good for a first year coach no doubt.

Seibold then goes to the Broncos and we all know where that ends up. Munity and a complete failure leading to the club's first wooden spoon.

As for your white anting Kevvie thoughts..... happens at every club when success is hard to come by. he was already failing at that point so not much of an argument. the Kevvie thing would never have got traction had the team been successful. Seibold made some awful decisions letting go of some of the senior players in that squad leaving a bunch of inexperienced hot boys to burn and crash. That was all on him.

As for your Grit thoughts yep we have beaten some of the apparent heavyweights. but we have also lost some awful games to sides we should beat. go figure. Oh and beating a Panthers or rooters or storm before June means very little.

In the end Seibold will be either a failure or success. I currently see it as a 60/40 fail you obviously see it as a 60/40 success because we beat a few top sides when it doesn't matter. if we miss the finals this year with this roster then 2 years in a row makes it very hard for him to continue.

Im still wondering where you think its a personal thing against the guy. If he succeeds then happy days. just so far he hasn't.

 

[Tragic Eagle]

The finish of this season will determine the coach's fate. I hope the players give it a red hot go in the next 8 games and into the semis and we have a little luck. We got lucky against the Cowboys lest week so I hope it is the start of a good run home. I consider we have underachieved thus far this season and I would have though a top 4 finish was our target with our start to the season. We need to shake that trait of losing games we are expected to win and that is something that was happening well before Seiblod got there. This weekend is a huge game fo the team playing at home in front of a full house and desperately needing the 2 competition points on offer. The coach really needs to get them up for this one. I hope he gets them up and they get the job done.

 

[The '47ers]

To go further on this, even after 27 rounds the ladder is a bit deceiving.

The comp is truely not fair and legitimate unless we played 32 rounds with every team home and away.

Which obviously isnt viable in such a brutal sport, but anything less then that is uneven in terms of consistency.

It's always annoyed me.
I wonder if they'll split into to groups of 10 when we get 20 teams and finish with a "Superbowl" style game.

 

[Disco]

Seibold in 2018 walked into a side with this roster just to name a few. A roster that had won a GF in the past 5 years and knew what success felt like.

Greg Inglis
Adam Renyolds
Sam Burgess
Damien Cook
Angus Crichton
Adam Doueihi
Dane Gagai
Alex Johnston
Cody Walker
Plus many others. Its not exactly the west tigers roster is it? He took them to 3rd on the table and made a preliminary final. Possible underachievement? but good for a first year coach no doubt.

Souths finished 12th in 2017 with the same roster.

Stating that is a possibly underachievement to take any roster from 12th to 3rd is at best harsh....at worst agenda driven.

They actually finished equal on points and wins with the minor prems in the Roosters. It was only a F/A difference of 36 that stopped them from being minor premiers.

1st year at the Broncos, 8th.....meh okay for a very experienced side.

2nd year at the Broncos a catastrophe.

1st year here, ultimately a disappointment, with some mitigating factors.

This year more promising but still in the balance.

So where Id land him at the moment.......right on the fence. Done some good, made plenty of mistakes.

It all rides on how we finished the season, we do well, make the finals and put in a showing then we can talk extension.

We miss the finals then we may need to start looking at options.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Seibold in 2018 walked into a side with this roster just to name a few. A roster that had won a GF in the past 5 years and knew what success felt like.

Greg Inglis
Adam Renyolds
Sam Burgess
Damien Cook
Angus Crichton
Adam Doueihi
Dane Gagai
Alex Johnston
Cody Walker
Plus many others. Its not exactly the west tigers roster is it? He took them to 3rd on the table and made a preliminary final. Possible underachievement? but good for a first year coach no doubt.

I'm not a fan of Seibold (not against him, just still mostly neutral) but the logic of some of his critics amuses at times. EG - with that star-studded roster Souths finished 12th the year before Seibold took over. And the year before that they also finished 12th. Had a dud coach those years I suppose (oh yeah, premiership winner Maguire).

As for "had won a GF in the last 5 years" ... you only have to look at the grand finalists from the last 2 years to see how quickly teams can flop after being top tier.

So, your suggestion Seibold's results in 2018 were "possible underachievement" prompted a wry chuckle and shake of the head. I guess underachieving coaches often get Coach of the Year, it's quite an easy award to win, lol.

Everyone can be legitimately criticised, but for balance you need to acknowledge the positives too, otherwise it can look like just searching for arguments to justify a conclusion already locked in.

 

[Uber Eagle 72]

Well the great Trent Barrett has recently said the difference between where Parra is tracking atm and success comes down to luck! This is why he will never likely coach FG again in the NRL.
Seibold needs to deliver a top 8 finish or he is gonski…. Personally ( based upon no real facts) other than how he left Souths and the pile of poo he seemingly left at the Broncos I think he was a bad choice to begin with that Mestrov needs to take responsibility for… Time will tell…. Will be very happy to be proven wrong!

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

Souths finished 12th in 2017 with the same roster.

Stating that is a possibly underachievement to take any roster from 12th to 3rd is at best harsh....at worst agenda driven.

A bit Like Hasler in 2019 I guess. Almost wooden spooners to a semi final. Not bad for a bloke we sacked.

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

So, your suggestion Seibold's results in 2018 were "possible underachievement" prompted a wry chuckle and shake of the head. I guess underachieving coaches often get Coach of the Year, it's quite an easy award to win, lol.

OK. I take your point. But one good season doesn't make him a good coach. The fabled bounce back may be in play but who knows.
All I do know is as a head coach he's currently 1 and 3 for making the finals. He's been fired (thanks to kevvie). Couldn't get a job in RL to save himself and fell asleep in a maccas drunk... normally it's the coach that's supposed to collect the drunk player. Hasn't won anything and has had decent rosters to work with. He's never coached a west tigers or the like.

 

[Pepi]

All I do know is as a head coach he's currently 1 and 3 for making the finals.

He's 2 and 2.

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

He's 2 and 2.

Ah sorry. Me bad. I was wrong.

That's right he was on the end of a flogging from the eels. The largest loss ever in finals. 58 - 0.

Probably wishes he missed it that year and was 1 and 3.

 

[Disco]

A bit Like Hasler in 2019 I guess. Almost wooden spooners to a semi final. Not bad for a bloke we sacked.

So......your saying both under achieved?

Or both did well in those respective seasons?

Or it was an achievement for Hasler but an under achievement for Seibold?