Poll added - Sea Eagles Everyone in League jersey

[NYEagle]

Neither do they say, I hate you. And now apparently they cant attend the match for security reasons, ie concerns for their safety, it appears we have reached peak irony with this.

That’s what bothers me the most. These fragile petals are not only staying away from the game, but are also not fronting up to explain themselves. They should. If they came out and explained their sensitivities and how deep in runs in their community and that this is something that cannot be fixed overnight, I’ll get it. But we as fans get stoned silence from them, while DCE and Des need to explain THEMselves.

I was up against the birdcage as a 16 year old when Roach got sent off for patting the referee. We spat all sorts of vitriol at him and he just turned around and blew kisses at us all. He didn’t scurry away, and no one got hurt from a bit of lip.

I respected him because he didn’t scurry away and he recognised we were upset.

NYEagle

 

[40 nil]

Maybe the best piece I've read on this controversy - copied from the Facebook Manly Sea Eagles Supporters Group

It’s complicated!

"When first learning of the pride jersey initiative, I felt much pride knowing Manly were the first in NRL history to ever take this step. But the failure to show true inclusion across all members of our club when this was supposed to be a celebration of diversity and inclusion was a gigantic failure in spite of the intent. I 100% support the inclusion pride jersey and everything it’s meant to represent."

"In everyone’s desire to have an opinion on this debacle, created by management of the Manly club, multiple divergent perspectives on the issue are ignored and lost. Cognitive dissonance, holding two opposing thoughts in our heads at the same time is challenging. It’s harder to wrap our heads around a complex situation with multiple perspectives than to settle for a simple answer because we love and default to shortcuts."

"A massive part of Pasifika identity, heritage and culture is fundamentally linked to family. Representing and honouring your family members by respecting and observing the spiritual beliefs of your family. This needs more empathy and understanding by all. I come from a background of having strictly held religious beliefs in my past so I attempt to see these other perspectives. I don’t agree with the Christian faith view on this issue, Macklemore nailed it…..it's all the same love, About time that we raised up! I’ve heard the calls of hypocrisy of these 7 players to play and be supported by a game where alcohol and gambling advertising is rife. While I won’t speak for Pasifika peoples, their cultural values of reciprocity, collectivism, service and respect would value doing everything they can to financially support their family and community. In that context, I know I’d certainly justify the money and career available in Rugby League. I wish Manly had taken the whole club on the inclusion journey with them, the educational benefits for all would be invaluable and could have seen much different conversations and outcomes. Something I learnt through all this is that pre-colonisation, Pasifika communities had a rich history of gender diversity and fluidity. Subsequent colonisation of the region with Western religion and values resulted in wide-spread rejection or suppression of these identities to this day."

"I hate that this whole thing will probably scare the NRL off having a pride initiative league wide. It’s certainly been another vehicle for privileged bigots to slam a much needed equality and inclusion measure like this as woke/PC blah blah. I feel for any fan of Manly or the game who now feels alienated by the 7 players not supporting/respecting their identity & sexuality……and the same fans would also feel attacked by those whose privilege give them the soapbox to rail against equality and inclusion because this isn’t an issue for them. Yet another case of much more empathy being needed in society."

"I can’t believe management have not owned this but by sending out the true leaders of the Sea Eagles, Daly Cherry Evans and Des Hasler to take this on publicly, much love and admiration to them for the way they handled it. I will be there at Brooky tomorrow to support the club and the 17 men who will wear this jersey with pride and honour, and I will be there next game supporting the 17 men who run out to represent the Manly Sea Eagles."

 

[HK_Eagle]

Do you think that possibly, just possibly these guys may actually accept others, but may simply want to uphold values that they have learnt from their parents and want to hold onto themselves. Those values being sex is best expressed in a monogamous relationship, life long between opposite sex people.

Is it possible that they can treasure and uphold those views and still respect and value people who don't? They can and do. The two concepts can exist in a just society.

No, Real. I do not believe these guys in any way shape or form are accepting the LGBTIQ community. Period. Fullstop.

You see, some want to throw words around such as “beliefs” and “values” and “respect” when referencing the dissenting 7, like they’re good ole wholesome lads being persecuted. The truth is they are choosing to follow beliefs (“choosing” mind you) that lead to the intolerance of other fellow human beings. Their choice. They could choose to believe differently. They could still choose their preferred lifestyle (monogamy, no sex till marriage or whatever else) AND YET STILL wear a jersey to express their tolerance of others… especially when those “others” struggle for visibility and acceptance.

So, to answer your last paragraph, yes they can, and they can do it in a way that respects what they want and what others need.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Trent Robinson: “In the youth gay community [suicide is] five times what normal society is. That’s because they don’t feel included. For us in 2022, to not be inclusive and not say it’s OK to be who you are, is unacceptable."

Aside from Manly's rainbow bands, isn't it the case that both teams jerseys in this match will also carry the Gotcha4Life sign? Their slogan: Zero suicides, that's our vision, simple as that.

@Batty and others defending the idea that people should be excluded on the basis of sexuality are missing the point that this exclusion really hurts people, and well done to Robbo for highlighting that.

I am hopeful that most of the religious 7 when they finally get a chance to calmly reflect on all the ramifications and facets of this issue, will feel a bit differently and regret taking the action they did, to refuse to participate in a message of acceptance and inclusion. This optimism is really down to their young age, and I suspect they simply have never been exposed to alternate ways of thinking about it. I was relatively naive in plenty of ways when I was their age, that is for sure. No-one can consider a point of view if they've never heard it.

Anyway, regardless of whether the 7 change, well done to Robbo for his words.

 

[Jerry1]

Aside from Manly's rainbow bands, isn't it the case that both teams jerseys in this match will also carry the Gotcha4Life sign? Their slogan: Zero suicides, that's our vision, simple as that.

@Batty and others defending the idea that people should be excluded on the basis of sexuality are missing the point that this exclusion really hurts people, and well done to Robbo for highlighting that.

I am hopeful that most of the religious 7 when they finally get a chance to calmly reflect on all the ramifications and facets of this issue, will feel a bit differently and regret taking the action they did, to refuse to participate in a message of acceptance and inclusion. This optimism is really down to their young age, and I suspect they simply have never been exposed to alternate ways of thinking about it. I was relatively naive in plenty of ways when I was their age, that is for sure. No-one can consider a point of view if they've never heard it.

Anyway, regardless of whether the 7 change, well done to Robbo for his words.

No one is excluded its noisy minorities always wanting the limelight. If you want to rock up in your pride jersey all good just don’t expect or try to mandate that everyone should have to wear one too.

 

[Deleted member 26876]

So to understand your post, you believe religion serves no place in the game?

Just a genuine question.

Hmm im a little confused. Here’s my 2 cents.

I think that the marketing people thought, “hey let’s make a rainbow jersey (representing inclusivity) for our fans to buy and to support fans/players of the game and in the juniors”. Sounds nice.

Then I think that the religious players should have thought, “hey I may/may not believe in being gay myself, but understand it’s just a few rainbow stripes and isn’t targetted for me anyways, i’ll wear it”.

Instead (and almost unbelievably) they chose to make it about themselves when it has such a broad message of inclusivity (of all). Then you add in the context of this match being key for us and it’s even more wild.

I don’t know if that answers your question or not

 

[The Who]

Kevin, by their actions they've shown disrespect towards us as supporters. We're on the cusp of the 8 and playing a team just as desperate to get there. and your 'wonder' is just that, wonder. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't. who knows?, as they've not said anything. And they are just '7 humble' lads'? I don't know. How do you know?

Please don't lump all Manly supporters into your comments. I fully support the player's right. The club totally overstepped their competency, and then the NRL refused to approve a sensible compromise allowing the seven to wear the traditional jersey. They should shoulder the remainder of the blame.
If this stuffs our season then it is totally on the club and the NRL. Without the club's amateurish attempt to sell merchandise and look good in the eyes of a certain section of society we'd have our best available team running out on Thursday night.
What I am hoping is that this will galvanise the squad for the remaining five matches. I think those happy to wear the Pride jersey will stick solid with the seven (and those others in reserve grade) and it could make Manly even harder to beat.

 

[Deleted member 26876]

There is devout Christian and there is extreme devout Christian. My point never related to the coach but more to us as fans and the general public. Would there be such an uproar if the sitting 7 were white? I hope not but its hard to say either way.

I think the criticism would’ve been worse if they were white Australians as (in my experience, may be wrong) strict religious beliefs are not even remotely embedded into white Australian culture. 7 people (plus the reserve players) out of a squad of 30 or so is quite a high proportion.

My reaction was pretty telling, it went like this..

First I was pretty shocked when I heard 7 players were standing down. Then as soon as I heard they were Polynesian players I was significantly less shocked. It was a subconscious reaction. Even though I absolutely don’t agree with it and think the 7 players are being bigotted hypocrites, the fact they were Polynesian implied that christianity was likely more central to their upbringing and then I kept scrolling down the news article and sure enough it cited religious reasons for the players choosing to stand down.

I don’t know a single white person who is strongly christian in the northern beaches, so religion would’ve been a less effective cop-out for 7 white players.

They would’ve been hammered even more for it imo. But that’s a pretty null point and takes away from what’s happened.

Any player, white or polynesian, devout christian or not, should be criticised for refusing to play in a simple jersey promoting inclusivity for all (targetted as a simple thumbs up to players, fans and juniors affected).

 

[highlandeagle]

No, Real. I do not believe these guys in any way shape or form are accepting the LGBTIQ community. Period. Fullstop.

You see, some want to throw words around such as “beliefs” and “values” and “respect” when referencing the dissenting 7, like they’re good ole wholesome lads being persecuted. The truth is they are choosing to follow beliefs (“choosing” mind you) that lead to the intolerance of other fellow human beings. Their choice. They could choose to believe differently. They could still choose their preferred lifestyle (monogamy, no sex till marriage or whatever else) AND YET STILL wear a jersey to express their tolerance of others… especially when those “others” struggle for visibility and acceptance.

So, to answer your last paragraph, yes they can, and they can do it in a way that respects what they want and what others need.

Here lies the problem. Intolerance in a nutshell. Thinking you are above others. High horse anyone? Elitist and condescending. More power to the MAGNIFICENT 7.

 

[HK_Eagle]

No one is excluded its noisy minorities always wanting the limelight. If you want to rock up in your pride jersey all good just don’t expect or try to mandate that everyone should have to wear one too.

Sorry Terry, disagree mate. There are people out there that feel excluded. Through your eyes you see inclusion and footy fans having a great time and whatever else. Others do not see the same thing you do. Some people feel there is something wrong with them, given the way everybody carries on different to how they feel,.. and they try their best to mimic the same behaviours. They lose themselves in this effort to feel a part of and belong. And that’s just the ones who rock up and even try. Meanwhile, it all feels cool and wonderful to you. No biased here, we accept all. With all respect, you wouldn’t know what ALL is, mate. All in your world excludes certain others. Not your intention, I know, but real for some others.

 

[highlandeagle]

Sorry Terry, disagree mate. There are people out there that feel excluded. Through your eyes you see inclusion and footy fans having a great time and whatever else. Others do not see the same thing you do. Some people feel there is something wrong with them, given the way everybody carries on different to how they feel,.. and they try their best to mimic the same behaviours. They lose themselves in this effort to feel a part of and belong. And that’s just the ones who rock up and even try. Meanwhile, it all feels cool and wonderful to you. No biased here, we accept all. With all respect, you wouldn’t know what ALL is, mate. All in your world excludes certain others. Not your intention, I know, but real for some others.

It's 2022. No one is excluded. Stop the self pity.

 

[Keffola]

It's 2022. No one is excluded. Stop the self pity.

Absolutely naive to think no one is excluded. What do you think gay pacific islanders are thinking when growing up in these religious communities.

However I do support the 7 players to stand down. Not because I agree with their views, but just hoping one day they can change their minds. I can see how their religious upbringing can shape their worldview and asking them to change all that in 1 week is asking the impossible.

The hate they are copping is unfair, their one stance should not invalidate what other good they do for the community.

Would love to actually hear from the 7 to see where they are coming from and ask them a few questions though.

Which is more important, the bibles writings on homosexuality or its message of love thy neighbour?

Even if homosexuality is a sin, does the bible not teach that sins can be forgiven?

If sins can be forgiven isnt it said that only god can judge? Shouldnt they accept everyone and try to convert them to god so they can be forgiven?

Im not religious at all but from what I know of christianity, those should have been its founding principles.

 

[Andrew..]

It's 2022. No one is excluded. Stop the self pity.

So the fact that Gay adolescents are 5 times more likely to commit suicide means nothing because you say no one is excluded.. I guess they must just be full of self pity.

 

[blacktown eagle]

Assumption is where I am at with the withdrawal of their services, I haven’t read or heard anything from the players coming out and saying otherwise.

Could have been the club and could have been the NRL making the mandate, for me it’s the threat to withdraw services that can’t be acceptable.. that gang / union type mentality with strength in number’s is not tolerable.

Uzzie and SBW both came forward to the media with their views, they owned it.

But it’s okay to gang up on seven players who wanted to stick to their belief and culture? Who before this have never threatened or made their views public because it’s their own private belief.

You must be pretty thick between the ears to not see that the club and the nrl have hung these kids out to dry. There is a reason no other team has even attempted this, a few flat out saying no way in seasons gone.

These lads would play if they didn’t have to wear the strip. And they choose not to for cultural and or religious beliefs. And that is entirely up to them. They didn’t stand down. They were stood down.

The players haven’t said anything because I can also bet your bottom dollar the club has put all the boys on mute. The boys have been told not to come to the game to support their mates, you think it was their choice? The club has literally told them not to come.

If this fractures the playing group, it’ll be the clubs fault. In years to come when we still haven’t won a premiership and it’s slim pickings for recruits because a vast majority of the talent pool is of Polynesian descent with similar views. None will want a bar of us, because of how we treated our lads for sticking solid to their own beliefs. And put the risk of being ostracised by their family and church above wearing a politically weaponised jersey.

It’s just a rainbow strip a lot of people say, yeah it is - so what’s the carry on if they choose not to wear it then?

Josh who many were calling our new pack leader has recieved death threats for fuks sake. As the week drags on coz of the mess the heirachy of this club ignited I feel as if it’s going to get a lot worse from here on in. That wooden spoon we’ve never had could be enroute.

We’re worried about Manase’s court case. Even if he is let off - there’s every chance he’s thinking if he wants to stay here. He is a Mormon, his best mate is one of the seven. Then there is his little brother, who is one of the best junior prospects in the game. You know the one manly signed to a massive deal. Could be dim days ahead - strap yourselves in. Because Instead of standing unified for the players a lot of you vilify them.

As I’ve stated previously being disappointed in their stance is okay but to heap hate on them is a bit of a stretch. No empathy what so ever. It’s sad to be honest.

 

[blacktown eagle]

It’s got nothing to do with me and everything to do with treating people fairly. It’s not hard to see when that’s the case.

So because these 7 players chose not to wear the strip they aren’t treating people fairly? Is this preschool?

 

[blacktown eagle]

Well I guess the Polynesian community should set the agenda for the NRL. It would have my support on banning their players playing if gambling or alcohol were advertised in the game.

Gambling is not even mentioned in the bible.

And Jesus turned water into wine do your research.

 

[HK_Eagle]

But it’s okay to gang up on seven players who wanted to stick to their belief and culture? Who before this have never threatened or made their views public because it’s their own private belief.

You must be pretty thick between the ears to not see that the club and the nrl have hung these kids out to dry. There is a reason no other team has even attempted this, a few flat out saying no way in seasons gone.

These lads would play if they didn’t have to wear the strip. And they choose not to for cultural and or religious beliefs. And that is entirely up to them. They didn’t stand down. They were stood down.

The players haven’t said anything because I can also bet your bottom dollar the club has put all the boys on mute. The boys have been told not to come to the game to support their mates, you think it was their choice? The club has literally told them not to come.

If this fractures the playing group, it’ll be the clubs fault. In years to come when we still haven’t won a premiership and it’s slim pickings for recruits because a vast majority of the talent pool is of Polynesian descent with similar views. None will want a bar of us, because of how we treated our lads for sticking solid to their own beliefs. And put the risk of being ostracised by their family and church above wearing a politically weaponised jersey.

It’s just a rainbow strip a lot of people say, yeah it is - so what’s the carry on if they choose not to wear it then?

Josh who many were calling our new pack leader has recieved death threats for fuks sake. As the week drags on coz of the mess the heirachy of this club ignited I feel as if it’s going to get a lot worse from here on in. That wooden spoon we’ve never had could be enroute.

We’re worried about Manase’s court case. Even if he is let off - there’s every chance he’s thinking if he wants to stay here. He is a Mormon, his best mate is one of the seven. Then there is his little brother, who is one of the best junior prospects in the game. You know the one manly signed to a massive deal. Could be dim days ahead - strap yourselves in. Because Instead of standing unified for the players a lot of you vilify them.

As I’ve stated previously being disappointed in their stance is okay but to heap hate on them is a bit of a stretch. No empathy what so ever. It’s sad to be honest.

Much easier just to bang on like you’re a caring human being and completely ignore those who this jersey signified acceptance and inclusion for. Right?

That 7, and others, never had to make their views public before because everywhere around them supported and accepted their views (while excluding others). They were never left to feel invisible or silent. They could pray in the dressing room or on the field and no backlash… just acceptance. Oh, how others would welcome that level of acceptance too.

 

[Dion Johnson]

But it’s okay to gang up on seven players who wanted to stick to their belief and culture? Who before this have never threatened or made their views public because it’s their own private belief.

You must be pretty thick between the ears to not see that the club and the nrl have hung these kids out to dry. There is a reason no other team has even attempted this, a few flat out saying no way in seasons gone.

These lads would play if they didn’t have to wear the strip. And they choose not to for cultural and or religious beliefs. And that is entirely up to them. They didn’t stand down. They were stood down.

The players haven’t said anything because I can also bet your bottom dollar the club has put all the boys on mute. The boys have been told not to come to the game to support their mates, you think it was their choice? The club has literally told them not to come.

If this fractures the playing group, it’ll be the clubs fault. In years to come when we still haven’t won a premiership and it’s slim pickings for recruits because a vast majority of the talent pool is of Polynesian descent with similar views. None will want a bar of us, because of how we treated our lads for sticking solid to their own beliefs. And put the risk of being ostracised by their family and church above wearing a politically weaponised jersey.

It’s just a rainbow strip a lot of people say, yeah it is - so what’s the carry on if they choose not to wear it then?

Josh who many were calling our new pack leader has recieved death threats for fuks sake. As the week drags on coz of the mess the heirachy of this club ignited I feel as if it’s going to get a lot worse from here on in. That wooden spoon we’ve never had could be enroute.

We’re worried about Manase’s court case. Even if he is let off - there’s every chance he’s thinking if he wants to stay here. He is a Mormon, his best mate is one of the seven. Then there is his little brother, who is one of the best junior prospects in the game. You know the one manly signed to a massive deal. Could be dim days ahead - strap yourselves in. Because Instead of standing unified for the players a lot of you vilify them.

As I’ve stated previously being disappointed in their stance is okay but to heap hate on them is a bit of a stretch. No empathy what so ever. It’s sad to be honest.

I don’t see how the club has ganged up on the playing group whatsoever, but I guess that’s me being thick between the ears as you say..

I don’t doubt the talent in the group, they are all talented individuals with no voice at the moment.

The players stood down for their religious beliefs the club didn’t stand them down, I am of the view they came together collectively and withdrew their services without a solution to their problem put forward. You can’t be held to ransom as an organisation by the employees or players in this case.

The club will always be there long after their gone.

 

[blacktown eagle]

I don’t see how the club has ganged up on the playing group whatsoever, but I guess that’s me being thick between the ears as you say..

I don’t doubt the talent in the group, they are all talented individuals with no voice at the moment.

The players stood down for their religious beliefs the club didn’t stand them down, I am of the view they came together collectively and withdrew their services without a solution to their problem put forward. You can’t be held to ransom as an organisation by the employees or players in this case.

The club will always be there long after their gone.

So what was the solution then? You fail to see their side of things. As I’ve mentioned previously - these guys might be all up for wearing it. You’ll never know. But the communities they come from and the communities their families are part of will be there long after footy. The backlash they could endure because of it will last years.

Like I said to be disappointed is fair game, hell even I’m disappointed because to stand united for this cause would’ve been beautiful. To get the win against the chooks would make it twice as good.

But I won’t sit here and vilify them, because if I was wearing their shoes and dealing with what they had to id put my family first too. Even if I wanted to support inclusiveness. So it’s up to the 7 involved to solve the problem is it?

The club had every chance to do the right thing by the boys, long before this even heated up. Hugh Jackman had the jersey weeks ago. They could’ve got Ian Roberts to come in and talk with the playing group and the boys could’ve reflected on that and we might be in a different situation to now. They had one day to make a decision.

 

[Dion Johnson]

So what was the solution then? You fail to see their side of things. As I’ve mentioned previously - these guys might be all up for wearing it. You’ll never know. But the communities they come from and the communities their families are part of will be there long after footy. The backlash they will endure because of it will last years.

Like I said to be disappointed is fair game, hell even I’m disappointed because to stand united for this cause would’ve been beautiful. To get the win against the chooks would make it twice as good.

But I won’t sit here and vilify them, because if I was wearing their shoes and dealing with what they had to id put my family first too. Even if I wanted to support inclusiveness. So it’s up to the 7 involved to solve the problem is it?

The club had every chance to do the right thing by the boys, long before this even heated up. Hugh Jackman had the jersey weeks ago. They could’ve got Ian Roberts to come in and talk with the playing group and the boys could’ve reflected on that and we might be in a different situation to now. They had one day to make a decision.

My time in business where there has been a problem you sit down and talk it through, if it’s me with the problem I always take a solution to the table like most open minded people do.

Again it could be the club or the NRL as stated previously, the players should come forward as individuals with their statements and they would definitely regain my respect by taking responsibility individually not collectively.

Only time will tell how this plays out with the squad, no hate to the players from myself but zero respect on how they have handled this.

Some of the players I enjoyed watching the most are in that group of seven, though now I won’t be disappointed if the club let them go or they moved on.