Perspective and a deep breath

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So Manly got touched up by Penrith the premiers, the first team to go back to back without a salary cap so blatantly rorted it's become accepted to the point it's part of the vernacular, ie: sombrero=chooks.

Missing our best centre, our five eighth who was best on ground in our last win against the previous year's runners up.

Our draw has been unkind, Bulldogs was a decent first up hit out, a bye first round isnt bad, second serves absolutely no positive benefit, it allows every other team in the comp to gain more match fitness whilst yours slides (the old crap those busy bodies you find in every local gym will tell you applies - one week off six weeks to catch back up).

Play Parra Souths and a very very good Newcastle team (O'Brien can clearly coach he's come through the systems and now seems to know he is on his last chance and thrown out all the 'systems' he studied at the storm and the roosters and has a footy head halfback there with him) and we're absolutely buggered coming into this round.

The Weekes experiment was worth a try but didn't come off but at least things were tried. We could have lost by just as much with someone else covering there as a stop gap or with John's.

What I liked most and I'm lucky enough to have Foxtel was watching the reserves. As much as people went off about the player swap for woods, the Blacktown team beat the premiers from last year and if we have a good experiences squad to bring players through, players who know they are actually a chance at a place in firsts if they perform it's going to bode well for the future.

We are not the tigers remember that. We do well against the Storm especially when not supposed to, then the tigers after that, hooker is still a problem and we need a cam Murray choc watmough second rower (Bullemore could be that man I'm sure of it and he'd love the starting spot, give Condon that bench role).

Anyway something to ruminate on whilst sipping your coffee feathered fiends.
 

Lyonstomenzies

Bencher
Premium Member
I’m not writing this season off just yet. They didn’t put 50 on us, so I’m happy.

I think Schuster adds a lot to the side so hopefully when he’s back along with Koula we see some better results.

It is worrying that our forwards can’t make better yardage. Some blame the fact that Froggy is slow and that sets up the play. This could be true so I’m hoping GCKT can get 20 mins per game.
 

Mark from Brisbane

“ Boomer still Booming”
Premium Member
Tipping Member
I think you need to add another word to the title , resilience.

And that would be supporter resilience.

Yes it’s not easy , BUT whilst I didn’t think we’d roll over so meekly , it was surprising that the Grand Finalists for the last 3 years , and the current back to back Premiers would beat us.

I picked them in the tipping , I knew it would be a loss , I just didn’t think it would be a shellacking.

We all know this is a competition where 3 or 4 teams are consistently winning , look at the time since we won in 2011, one year for the Sharks ( possibly well helped by the refs ) and the rest , the ones you’d think.

The NRL is absolutely no different to the English Super League now , only 3 or 4 sides ever win, the rest are just there to make up the numbers.

Don’t think I’ll see another GF win in my lifetime , sad , but it seems that’s the way it’s going to be.

But I’ll still enjoy the trying !!
 
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Stewbojevic

Reserve Grader
It’s classic Silvertails to overreact after a loss. The same people calling for everyone’s heads this week will be buying GF tickets when we get our next win.

We didn’t turn up and got smashed by a very good team. Plenty to learn from the experience but certainly doesn’t write off the season or our future. We have some of the best young talent going around.
 

Mark from Brisbane

“ Boomer still Booming”
Premium Member
Tipping Member
It’s classic Silvertails to overreact after a loss. The same people calling for everyone’s heads this week will be buying GF tickets when we get our next win.

We didn’t turn up and got smashed by a very good team. Plenty to learn from the experience but certainly doesn’t write off the season or our future. We have some of the best young talent going around.
I actually think it’s an excellent learning experience, they’ve played pretty well up to this point ( not perfect but much better than 2022) , and this loss will be as much of a shock to them as it was to us.

I don’t expect the next game to be a win , but if it’s another flogging it’ll show more about where they are at. If we show some fight , and say go down 28-18 it’ll show me we’ve learnt something.
 

Frogz

Bencher
Premium Member
I actually think it’s an excellent learning experience, they’ve played pretty well up to this point ( not perfect but much better than 2022) , and this loss will be as much of a shock to them as it was to us.

I don’t expect the next game to be a win , but if it’s another flogging it’ll show more about where they are at. If we show some fight , and say go down 28-18 it’ll show me we’ve learnt something.
Sad times knowing we are going to lose and just hoping we minimise the loss
 

Mark from Brisbane

“ Boomer still Booming”
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Sad times knowing we are going to lose and just hoping we minimise the loss
Agree , but with our current team I doubt we will beat many of the top 3 or 4 contenders , unless things go very much our way on a one off situation.

We will however have a reasonable year…..I think.

By reasonable I mean better than 2022.
 

Seagles68

Bencher
Premium Member
Tipping Member
I haven't really been convinced by any of our performances this year. It's the inconsistency during games that has bothered me. However, we have shown enough to make me think we could do well as the year went on if we stayed relatively injury free. And whilst I was being overly optimistic, I also picked them to upset Penrith. But eeeesh! I still haven't seen the game yet but it didn't sound good on the radio. If we get a fit and firing Shu, Koula and Tom back it'll go a long way to getting us back on track. I just can't work out our forwards. They started well this year but they just can't put back to back efforts together for whatever reason. How has Jake not shamed them in to doing that??!! Anyway, I'll still be in me seat on Friday night, hoping they will at least take it to the Storm with a bit more venom.
 
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Ron E. Gibbs

First Grader
It’s classic Silvertails to overreact after a loss. The same people calling for everyone’s heads this week will be buying GF tickets when we get our next win.

We didn’t turn up and got smashed by a very good team. Plenty to learn from the experience but certainly doesn’t write off the season or our future. We have some of the best young talent going around.
I get your point, and overreacting is always the Silvertails way, but for me it’s not just one loss - it’s years of poor results and ineptitude, starting from the top and trickling down.

Objectively, we are not a well-run club, and we are no longer a good football team. No other team sees Manly on the schedule and thinks, “Oh, that’ll be a tough game.” The good sides always beat us. The bad sides either beat us or give us a scare.

We will pick up a win here and there and there will always be something to cheer about and players to cheer for. But the days of Manly being an NRL powerhouse are long gone.
 
It’s classic Silvertails to overreact after a loss. The same people calling for everyone’s heads this week will be buying GF tickets when we get our next win.

We didn’t turn up and got smashed by a very good team. Plenty to learn from the experience but certainly doesn’t write off the season or our future. We have some of the best young talent going around.
The best second rower in the comp. When fit the best player in the comp. A lambasted halfback who is the only reason the team hasn't received its first wooden spoon and is not responsible for the over payment (which is nothing compared to players like Brooks Mbye Hunt Reynolds, Mautolino, Milford etc. Have received in concurrent timeframes it's just the backflip aspect and Manly media bashing that has exacerbated this trope amongst the casual commenter)a freakish centre with real footy acumen, there's enough there to build towards,

The Dolphins coming in has helped even the spread of talent and so will another team. The roosters can't stockpile the way they are and the Broncos paying Reece Walsh 400 for three years stinks. East's have Cory Allen in reserves Jaxon Paulo on the wing and Dom young coming next year. They have Hutchinson who could play centre Billy Smith who is injured, sualii and manu and Adam Keiran all stockpiled.

They have toupinua and chrighton to come back, apparently still paying Matt lodge a thousand a week?
The only way the talent will spread is if there are more first grade opportunities. If your options are be a reserve grade player at the roosters or at the tigers you take the roosters. Pull those fringe players away with guaranteed or close to guaranteed starting spots and then the club's like the Panthers all of a sudden don't have Katoa and O'Sullivan as back up during origin or for injury if Cleary or Luai get injured.

Hang in there @Mark from Brisbane the Eagles get one each calendar decade so you've only got to last seven more years mate.
 
I haven't really been convinced by any of our performances this year. It's the inconsistency during games that has bothered me. However, we have shown enough to make me think we could do well as the year went on if we stayed relatively injury free. And whilst I was being overly optimistic, I also picked them to upset Penrith. But eeeesh! I still haven't seen the game yet but it didn't sound good on the radio. If we get a fit and firing Shu, Koula and Tom back it'll go a long way to getting us back on track. I just can't work out or forwards. They started well this year but they just can't put back to back efforts together for whatever reason. How has Jake not shamed them in to doing that??!! Anyway, I'll still be in me seat on Friday night, hoping they will at least take it too the Storm with a bit more venom.
I don't think they have the mental fortitude to bash teams for eighty minutes without lapses of concentration in defence. It's a good tactic in big games and origins but it's really hard to do for a whole season and the fitness/concentration tradeoff is a balancing act. Souths game was aperfect example. Manly should have won but the universe and goodness won on the night for a champion in John Sattler, honestly stuff like that you can't write and you just accept and go well that's just brilliant to even think it could happen like that.

The Parra game you could tell the match fitness was going to be a problem. I wish they had Allan Tongue or Nathan Hindmarsh in the pack to clean things up.
 

niccipops

un echidna spillo mia bevanda
Premium Member
I think you need to add another word to the title , resilience.

And that would be supporter resilience.

Yes it’s not easy , BUT whilst I didn’t think we’d roll over so meekly , it was surprising that the Grand Finalists for the last 3 years , and the current back to back Premiers would beat us.

I picked them in the tipping , I knew it would be a loss , I just didn’t think it would be a shellacking.

We all know this is a competition where 3 or 4 teams are consistently winning , look at the time since we won in 2011, one year for the Sharks ( possibly well helped by the refs ) and the rest , the ones you’d think.

The NRL is absolutely no different to the English Super League now , only 3 or 4 sides ever win, the rest are just there to make up the numbers.

Don’t think I’ll see another GF win in my lifetime , sad , but it seems that’s the way it’s going to be.

But I’ll still enjoy the trying !!
Great post Mark
I find kind of funny when our fans throw in the towel and say things like, that's the worst performance I've seen in forty years. Really? Have you watched every game for forty years? I have. There's been many dismal, as well as brilliant, performances. We also lost our club for three years. That was the worst ever IMO.
I understand the younger fans being paper thin. The NRL wants to mould them to be general fans of the game, not so much attached to one team.
Us older fans though, we need to set the example of resilience. There will be bad, but the good will be magic.
Come along for the ride or step off the bus.
Go Manly!
 
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NREagle

Bencher
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Schuster and Koula are big outs (both in defense and attack) for the team. Need to work more on the "next man in" mentality as our structures can't seem to cope with changes in the playing roster.
 

Seagles68

Bencher
Premium Member
Tipping Member
I don't think they have the mental fortitude to bash teams for eighty minutes without lapses of concentration in defence. It's a good tactic in big games and origins but it's really hard to do for a whole season and the fitness/concentration tradeoff is a balancing act. Souths game was aperfect example. Manly should have won but the universe and goodness won on the night for a champion in John Sattler, honestly stuff like that you can't write and you just accept and go well that's just brilliant to even think it could happen like that.

The Parra game you could tell the match fitness was going to be a problem. I wish they had Allan Tongue or Nathan Hindmarsh in the pack to clean things up.
Yeah, I don't think any team can sustain that high level intensity for the whole game but they somehow need to raise the level of their lull (Penrith game aside of course coz they never got to a high intensity). I guess that comes with having the right players on the bench to take up the slack. We have some good talent there, we just need to build around that over the next couple of years to get back to being a real challenger again.
 
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mickqld

Sea Eagle forever
Tipping Member
Yeah, I don't any team can sustain that high level intensity for the whole game but they somehow need to raise the level of their lull (Penrith game aside of course coz they never got to a high intensity). I guess that comes with having the right players on the bench to take up the slack. We have some good talent there, we just need to build around that over the next couple of years to get back to being a real challenger again.
I watched both games yesterday Titans, Dragons, Knights,Warriors all teams on similar level to us and that high level intensity in attack and defense line speed went for the whole 80 min from all 4 teams. I can't cop that we can't maintain. They're full-time professional footballers paid $100Ks to train fulltime to play 100% intensity for 80min It's a cop out. I didn't expect us to beat Penrith but the worst halftime score in 43 years is a seriously gutless, lazy garbage effort with absolutely no excuses for it.
 

manly al

First Grader
If Manly can not lift or function much better as a unit against the Storm then there are real problems to come to terms with . Panthers knew where Manly 's vulnerable points were and were pretty ruthless and professional exploiting them . No side however can even remotely expect to compete with only a 27 % possession share in one half and the energy and confidence sapping effects then and having limited attacking options to offer as well . Turbo virtually a passenger when it mattered , disruptions to an already struggling backline , crucial tackles that should normally be made . Doesn 't seem to be a collective team problem , more an individual issue . Guess on a general analisis on the backs and forwards , jake , Paseka , Bullemor and Keppie and of course Oloaka - atu are offering some good value , Alioia just not enough on recent indications , Tuilagi even less a rating . Froggy a real trier , not in the top bracket but just will have to do for now . Really miss Foz "s direction , the Shu an asset when he is available , Turbo and Parker depend on his creativity , Turbo still can be very effective when fit without the Shu , Brad "s limitations really obvious without it . Weekes still looks a good prospect and should be at least retained on the bench Garrick and Saab can match most wingers so no concern there . Just cannot expect too much from Harper in the absence of Koula , it is what it is with D C E so pretty much status quo there . Sipley and Woods did go well on the weekend but prop performances aren "t the problem presently , just an edge position and to a lesser extent 13 . Main requirement seems a fit Shu and Turbo available , tidy up the edges , . Just so far off the pace and premiership calculations on Saturday , surely can be so much better but another lackluster effort against the Storm and regardless who is selected , will be looking pretty grim then ongoing or any time soon .
 

Mark from Brisbane

“ Boomer still Booming”
Premium Member
Tipping Member
I watched both games yesterday Titans, Dragons, Knights,Warriors all teams on similar level to us and that high level intensity in attack and defense line speed went for the whole 80 min from all 4 teams. I can't cop that we can't maintain. They're full-time professional footballers paid $100Ks to train fulltime to play 100% intensity for 80min It's a cop out. I didn't expect us to beat Penrith but the worst halftime score in 43 years is a seriously gutless, lazy garbage effort with absolutely no excuses for it.
Remember , none of them were playing the red hot Panthers.

Put any of those sides you’re mentioning up against the Panthers on Saturday night and I’d expect the results would have been exactly the same.
 

SeaEagleRock8

Sea Eagle Lach
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Ah, the doomsaying here on ST after the Penrith thrashing, as per usual. Then after we ambush Storm at Brookie next week the tune will be completely different, again as per usual. Suddenly our players will have some redeeming qualities once again, and balance will be restored.
 

eagle66

Bencher
Premium Member
Good to see a lot of us seeing things they way they are. Expect to see an improvement over the season. Hopefully we can regain that "flat track bully" status which would have as aspiring for an 8th spot this year. Should never be the target but look at the current squadand their performances.
Apart from needing a centre, a fit 5/8, a fit fullback, another 9, an alpha male forward and a "big dog" prop, we need to introduce speed in the ruck, mongrel and wrestling in tackles and to add width to our play on both sides of the ruck.
@Mark from Brisbane, I am confident you will see another premiership, I sense that things are in play that will bear results in the seasons to come.
 

Pete W

Bencher
I think it just comes down to expectations.

Some on here happy for us to compete from time to time, whilst others have an ingrained expectation that Manly should always be contending to win the comp, as we forever have been since the 70s (barring the NE years).

Unfortunately I am of the latter, and can't seem to accept that Manly really isn't Manly any more. We're now just making up the numbers, and have been for almost a decade now.

I hate it when Seibold says we are a new team, at the 'beginning of our journey', or others saying this is re-building. I say bollocks. We have been treading water, serving up the same crap season after season (a couple of exceptions under Des 2.0, but even then, no one honestly considered us a threat to take out the premiership). A lot of our players have some seriously meek mentalities, and the western Sydney northern beaches mix unfortunately has not been conducive to a unified team dynamic. We most certainly lack identity and character - glaringly obvious when you look at the buy-in from a last minute put together team of 'working class' veterans and rookies up at Redcliffe.

It seems as though almost every decision made at Manly is inevitably the wrong one
 

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