omnipotent beings discussion

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Kevinward777

First Grader
Again, you attack my character and mention nothing about the response that I gave to your question. Let's stick to the discussion (and the questions you asked of me) at hand and keep the personal attacks out of it. Why should I answer your questions if, when I give a response, you switch to a personal attack or change the subject?
Why shouldn't I just return to posting memes about the ridiculousness for Christianity?
Attack your character????? I’m asking those question because of your flaming hatred for the way in which the bible tells people how to live their lives. I was just asking whether you do the very same thing. But the fact you call it an insult shows me how very easily offended you are. I’m done discussing this stuff with you mate enjoy... all the best to you and yours.
 

MuzztheEagle

Bencher
Mutations are generally always a bad thing in living creatures... except in evolution and X-Men comic books. Entropy is in full swing throughout the universe... whereby everything degrades over time. Except in evolution.
So your argument is, that all mutations are bad therefor plants and insects could not have evolved from mutation?
 

Kevinward777

First Grader
Better than that - why don't I turn to the specific beliefs that you were so unwilling to state (I wonder why)? Believe me, I'm being pretty respectful here and I'm doing what I can to understand you and hear you out. But, I'm only in second gear! If you want me to start tearing apart your young earth ideas - that the majority of Christians in the world would disagree with you on, Then bring it on :)
I could care less... go slap yourself on the back and check your reflection in the mirror or something mate. Roll out the Christian hating memes till your heart is content. Have a wonderful day.
 

MuzztheEagle

Bencher
Attack your character????? I’m asking those question because of your flaming hatred for the way in which the bible tells people how to live their lives. I was just asking do you not do the very same thing. But the fact you call it an insult shows me how very easily offended you are. I’m done mate enjoy... all the best to you and yours.
How many times is this now Ken 7? 8?
Same old result, I don't know why you bother. I'm sure I will talk to you again soon and go around the same merry go round again. You get upset when something from the bible is taken out of context. You then provide no evidence or reasoning behind why it was taken out of context, other than that you know. I ask how you know and you reply because of my belief in Jesus. I explain to you why that isn't a valid argument. You then fly of the rails and attack science. I point out your flawed logic and answer any questions you have. You ignore my response and try to change the subject, often using a personal attack on my character. This doesn't work and you spit the dummy, only to return a couple of months later to demonstrate your bulletproof faith (but nothing that can be explained or demonstrated). See you soon :)
 

MuzztheEagle

Bencher
One of the best things about my way of thinking is that I am happy to admit that I don't know something. So it's pretty ironic @Kevinward777, that I seem to be willing to produce far more answers than you. I hope next time that you're back you bring something new :)
 

Woodsie

Feast yer eyes ..
Tipping Member
How did the trees receive carbon dioxide or the animals breathe. Small changes over million and billions of years hey?


Sorry to be picky again ... but all the elements on Earth are abundant throughout the Universe .. Carbon Dioxide and Oxygen are both naturally occuring and are present in both our atmosphere and in the oceans ..so it is no mystery that they would have formed a very big part of most life forms evolution ..

In fact certain bacteria produce oxygen ...

Mutations are generally always a bad thing in living creatures... except in evolution and X-Men comic books.


Not so ... a mutation is simply a word for the divergence from a norm ... and many are considered good ... in evolution they generally apply to a trait that gives the bearer an advantage in the environment in which they live .. and therfore more successful .. and therefore more attractive to potential mates ... resulting in more offspring that inherit the successful mutation ..

for example ... simply being taller, faster, bigger ... and depending on your environment and who you are competing with .. smaller as in the hummingbird .... the mutations that help you succeed in a particular niche ... are all good ...
 

MuzztheEagle

Bencher
Sorry to be picky again ... but all the elements on Earth are abundant throughout the Universe .. Carbon Dioxide and Oxygen are both naturally occuring and are present in both our atmosphere and in the oceans ..so it is no mystery that they would have formed a very big part of most life forms evolution ..

In fact certain bacteria produce oxygen ...
Thanks Woodsie, good points.
I will also mention that trees also use and need oxygen to live. It's why they can drown.
 

Kevinward777

First Grader
Sorry to be picky again ... but all the elements on Earth are abundant throughout the Universe .. Carbon Dioxide and Oxygen are both naturally occuring and are present in both our atmosphere and in the oceans ..so it is no mystery that they would have formed a very big part of most life forms evolution ..

In fact certain bacteria produce oxygen ...




Not so ... a mutation is simply a word for the divergence from a norm ... and many are considered good ... in evolution they generally apply to a trait that gives the bearer an advantage in the environment in which they live .. and therfore more successful .. and therefore more attractive to potential mates ... resulting in more offspring that inherit the successful mutation ..

for example ... simply being taller, faster, bigger ... and depending on your environment and who you are competing with .. smaller as in the hummingbird .... the mutations that help you succeed in a particular niche ... are all good ...
So in other words entropy, which affects LITERALLY EVERYTHING, suddenly gets put on pause for the sake of mutating bacteria. Hilarious and bat sh1t fecking crazing in equal measure.
 
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Kevinward777

First Grader
Sorry to be picky again ... but all the elements on Earth are abundant throughout the Universe .. Carbon Dioxide and Oxygen are both naturally occuring and are present in both our atmosphere and in the oceans ..so it is no mystery that they would have formed a very big part of most life forms evolution ..

In fact certain bacteria produce oxygen ...




Not so ... a mutation is simply a word for the divergence from a norm ... and many are considered good ... in evolution they generally apply to a trait that gives the bearer an advantage in the environment in which they live .. and therfore more successful .. and therefore more attractive to potential mates ... resulting in more offspring that inherit the successful mutation ..

for example ... simply being taller, faster, bigger ... and depending on your environment and who you are competing with .. smaller as in the hummingbird .... the mutations that help you succeed in a particular niche ... are all good ...
There is a factor called "entropy" in physics @Woodsie old mate, indicating that the whole universe of matter is running down, and ultimately will reduce itself to uniform chaos. This follows on from the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which seems about as basic and unquestionable to modern scientific minds as any truth can be. At the same time that this is happening on the physical level of existence, we are expected to believe (according to @MuzztheEagle and the great minds of pseudo science) that something completely different seems to be happening on the biological level: That structure and species are becoming more complex, more sophisticated, more organized, with higher degrees of performance and consciousness. Mmmmmmm..... okay.... aaaaah.... sure thing! Apparently this an example of sound logic and thinking for yourself, but to believe in God...
 
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Kevinward777

First Grader
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...cGwDgB42Jl4sRg88-X-r9H_WSuFG-c4cuKQE&usqp=CAU
1587465613693.png
 

Kevinward777

First Grader
How many times is this now Ken 7? 8?
Same old result, I don't know why you bother. I'm sure I will talk to you again soon and go around the same merry go round again. You get upset when something from the bible is taken out of context. You then provide no evidence or reasoning behind why it was taken out of context, other than that you know. I ask how you know and you reply because of my belief in Jesus. I explain to you why that isn't a valid argument. You then fly of the rails and attack science. I point out your flawed logic and answer any questions you have. You ignore my response and try to change the subject, often using a personal attack on my character. This doesn't work and you spit the dummy, only to return a couple of months later to demonstrate your bulletproof faith (but nothing that can be explained or demonstrated). See you soon :)
Ken lol.
 

MuzztheEagle

Bencher
There is a factor called "entropy" in physics @Woodsie old mate, indicating that the whole universe of matter is running down, and ultimately will reduce itself to uniform chaos. This follows on from the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which seems about as basic and unquestionable to modern scientific minds as any truth can be. At the same time that this is happening on the physical level of existence, we are expected to believe (according to @MuzztheEagle and the great minds of pseudo science) that something completely different seems to be happening on the biological level: That structure and species are becoming more complex, more sophisticated, more organized, with higher degrees of performance and consciousness. Mmmmmmm..... okay.... aaaaah.... sure thing! Apparently this an example of sound logic and thinking for yourself, but to believe in God...
I'd be interested to hear what you think entropy actually is, along with where you got this idea from.
There are multiple flaws to this argument/idea.
Firstly, you are conflating the two different definitions of the word. The physics term (that relates to the second law of thermodynamics) and the broader non scientific term of "lack of order or predictability; gradual decline into disorder". It's another equivocation error.
But we can go further of that as well. The second law of thermodynamic relates to isolated systems and the Earth is not an isolated system. We continue to receive energy from the Sun as Hydrogen is fused into Helium. This process will eventually run out of fuel and the Earth will be consumed by sun as it then uses heavier elements as fuel. This energy is what plants use for photosynthesis and prevents our balls from freezing off :)
Next, and even if you were to consider the broader definition of the word as an actual "law", then you would need to show that evolution and the mutations that @Woodsie and I were talking about was an ordered process. But that is the opposite to what we have claimed - it's random with useful mutations having an advantage to pass on that genetic material.
Overall the whole claim is a false analogy of a false analogy. It's just silly. But what's worse, would you apply the same rule to God?
"The second law of thermodynamics argument is one of the hoariest, silliest claims in the creationist collection. It's self-refuting. Point to the creationist: ask whether he was a baby once. Has he grown? Has he become larger and more complex? Isn't he standing there in violation of the second law himself? Demand that he immediately regress to a slimy puddle of mingled menses and semen." PZ Meyers
!!! Queue special pleading :)

But let's go back to the same old point. Even if we granted your argument and admitted that there was evidence of some intelligent designer, how does that help your claim of the Abrahamic / Christian God? Every other religion on the planet would point to the same claim that it was their god that did it.

Honestly, I think you should put your energy into actually providing evidence into why your God exists rather than throwing up flimsy arguments about concepts that you don't understand. Tell us why we should take your God seriously, tell us why he does such good for us (and no evil) and how we can actually know what it is that he wants us to do.
 
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Kevinward777

First Grader
I'd be interested to hear what you think entropy actually is, along with where you got this idea from.
There are multiple flaws to this argument/idea.
Firstly, you are conflating the two different definitions of the word. The physics term (that relates to the second law of thermodynamics) and the broader non scientific term of "lack of order or predictability; gradual decline into disorder". It's another equivocation error.
But we can go further of that as well. The second law of thermodynamic relates to isolated systems and the Earth is not an isolated system. We continue to receive energy from the Sun as Hydrogen is fused into Helium. This process will eventually run out of fuel and the Earth will be consumed by sun as it then uses heavier elements as fuel. This energy is what plants use for photosynthesis and prevents our balls from freezing off :)
Next, and even if you were to consider the broader definition of the word as an actual "law", then you would need to show that evolution and the mutations that @Woodsie and I were talking about was an ordered process. But that is the opposite to what we have claimed - it's random with useful mutations having an advantage to pass on that genetic material.
Overall the whole claim is a false analogy of a false analogy. It's just silly. But what's worse, would you apply the same rule to God?
"The second law of thermodynamics argument is one of the hoariest, silliest claims in the creationist collection. It's self-refuting. Point to the creationist: ask whether he was a baby once. Has he grown? Has he become larger and more complex? Isn't he standing there in violation of the second law himself? Demand that he immediately regress to a slimy puddle of mingled menses and semen." PZ Meyers
!!! Queue special pleading :)

But let's go back to the same old point. Even if we granted your argument and admitted that there was evidence of some intelligent designer, how does that help your claim of the Abrahamic / Christian God? Every other religion on the planet would point to the same claim that it was their god that did it.

Honestly, I think you should put your energy into actually providing evidence into why your God exists rather than throwing up flimsy arguments about concepts that you don't understand. Tell us why we should take your God seriously, tell us why he does such good for us (and no evil) and how we can actually know what it is that he wants us to do.
Hey @MuzztheEagle hope you’re having a good day. Sometimes in life timing is a peculiar thing. A great friend of mine called in on his way out to Bathurst this morning. He and his wife are part of the academic crowd, my mate has his doctorate in both Biology and Philosophy, but funnily enough is a staunch believer in a creator God.

We got to talking on the subject of evolution and this thread filtered into our conversation. I showed him some of the scientific inspired posts on here which support the theory of evolution and deny a creator God. He directed me to the following for your perusal.

EVOLUTION IS BIOLOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE!
Charles Darwin was daydreaming when he wrote that he could visualize "in some warm little pond," with all sorts of salts and electricity, the spontaneous generation of the first living cell.1Darwin's dream of the magical powers of salts and electricity may have come from his grandfather. Mary Shelley wrote of him in 1831 in her introduction to Frankenstein. "They talked of the experiments of Dr. Darwin . . . who preserved a piece of vermicelli in a glass case, till by some extraordinary means it began to move with voluntary motion." She goes on to speculate that galvanism (electricity) was the extraordinary means.2All theories need testing, so I bought some vermicelli pasta, kept it in salt water in a test tube for a month, and never saw any motion, voluntary or otherwise. I also used a tesla coil to conduct "galvanism" through it to a fluorescent bulb. The bulb lit and the vermicelli eventually began to cook, but never came to life.

"Darwin's bulldog," Thomas Huxley, had a vision of himself on the early earth as "a witness of the evolution of living protoplasm from non-living matter."3 In Huxley's day, the cell was blissfully considered simply a blob of protoplasm. Huxley also may have read Mary Shelley's subtitle to Frankenstein, "The Modern Prometheus."2Prometheus was the Greek mythical Titan, who formed a man of clay, then animated it. This myth may be the earliest reference to abiogenesis, the animation of inorganic materials. In order not to leave that possibility untried, I fashioned a clay man and directed the tesla-coil spark over it to light the bulb. The clay man was not animated.

Evolutionists currently invoke the "primeval soup" to expand the "warm little pond" into a larger venue, the oceans. They aim to spontaneously generate the first cell so they must thicken the salt water with (take a breath) polysaccharides, lipids, amino acids, alpha helixes, polypeptide chains, assembled quaternary protein subunits, and nucleotides, all poised to self-combine into functional cellular structures, energy systems, long-chain proteins and nucleic acids.4Then during an electrical storm, just the right mix of DNA, mRNA, ribosomes, cell membranes and enzymes are envisioned in the right place at the right time and the first cell is thunderbolted together and springs to life.5 That marvelous first cell, the story goes, filled the oceans with progeny competing in incredible polysaccharide, lipid, amino acid, nucleotide, and cannibalistic feasts. The predators thereby thinned the soup to the watery oceans we have today while the prey escaped by mystically transmuting themselves into the current complex animals and plants, or perhaps vice versa because no one was there to record it. We are assured by the disciples of Darwin and Huxley that the "once upon a pond" story to obtain a blob of protoplasm is still sufficient for the spontaneous generation of the cell as we know it today. All demur when asked for evidence. All balk when asked to reverse-engineer a cell in the laboratory in spite of the fact that laboratories rival nature and reverse engineering is orders of magnitude easier than engineering an original design. One wonders why they balk if cell stuff is so easily self-generated and carbon molecules seem to have such an innate tendency to self-combine.

To test simply the alleged self-combining tendency of carbon, I placed one microliter of India (lampblack) ink in 27 ml. of distilled water. The ink streaked for the bottom of the test tube where it formed a dark haze which completely diffused to an even shade of gray in 14 hours. The carbon stayed diffused, not aggregated as when dropped on paper. At this simple level, there is no evidence that the "primeval soup" is anything but fanciful imagination.

In science, the burden of evidence is on the proposer of the theory. So although the evolutionists have the burden of providing evidence for their fanciful tales, they take no responsibility for a detailed account or for any evidence demonstrating feasibility. Contrarily, they go so far as to imply that anyone holding them to the normal requirements of science is feebleminded, deranged, or evil. For example, Professor Richard Dawkins has been quoted as saying, "It is absolutely safe to say that, if you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is ignorant, stupid, or insane (or wicked, but I'd rather not consider that)."6 Instead of taking proper responsibility for the burden of evidence, the evolutionist propagandizes by the intimidation of name calling.

To set a better example, let us take up the evolutionist's burden of evidence to see where it leads. Our first observation is that apparently all functions in a living organism are based largely upon the structures of its proteins. The trail of the first cell therefore leads us to the microbiological geometry of amino acids and a search for the probability of creating a protein by mindless chance as specified by evolution. Hubert Yockey published a monograph on the microbiology, information theory, and mathematics necessary to accomplish that feat. Accordingly, the probability of evolving one molecule of iso-1-cytochrome c, a small protein common in plants and animals, is an astounding one chance in 2.3 times ten billion vigintillion. The magnitude of this impossibility may be appreciated by realizing that ten billion vigintillion is one followed by 75 zeros. Or to put it in evolutionary terms, if a random mutation is provided every second from the alleged birth of the universe, then to date that protein molecule would be only 43% of the way to completion. Yockey concluded, "The origin of life by chance in a primeval soup is impossible in probability in the same way that a perpetual motion machine is impossible in probability."7

Richard Dawkins implicitly agreed with Yockey by stating, "Suppose we want to suggest, for instance, that life began when both DNA and its protein-based replication machinery spontaneously chanced to come into existence. We can allow ourselves the luxury of such an extravagant theory, provided that the odds against this coincidence occurring on a planet do not exceed 100 billion billion to one."8The 100 billion billion is 1020. So Dawkins' own criterion for impossible in probability, one chance in more than 1020, has been exceeded by 50 orders of magnitude for only one molecule of one small protein. Now that Professor Dawkins has joined the ranks of non-believers in evolution, politesse forbids inquiring whether he considers himself "ignorant, stupid, insane, or wicked."

Let us proceed to criteria more stringent. For example, Borel stated that phenomena with very small probabilities do not occur. He settled arbitrarily on the probability of one chance in 1050 as that small probability. Again according to this more stringent criterion, we see that evolving one molecule of one protein would not occur by a wide margin, this time 25 orders of magnitude.9

Let us go further. According to Dembski, Borel did not adequately distinguish those highly improbable events properly attributed to chance from those properly attributed to something else and Borel did not clarify what concrete numerical values correspond to small probabilities. So Dembski repaired those deficiencies and formulated a criterion so stringent that it jolts the mind. He estimated 1080elementary particles in the universe and asked how many times per second an event could occur. He found 1045. He then calculated the number of seconds from the beginning of the universe to the present and for good measure multiplied by one billion for 1025 seconds in all. He thereby obtained 1080 x 1045 x 1025 = 10150 for his Law of Small Probability.9

I have not been able to find a criterion more stringent than Dembski's one chance in 10150. Anything as rare as that probability had absolutely no possibility of happening by chance at any time by any conceivable specifying agent by any conceivable process throughout all of cosmic history. And if the specified event is not a regularity, as the origin of life is not, and if it is not chance, as Dembski's criterion and Yockey's probability may prove it is not, then it must have happened by design, the only remaining possibility.

Now to return to the probability of evolving one molecule of one protein as one chance in 1075, we see that it does not satisfy Dembski's criterion of one chance in 10150. The simultaneous availability of two molecules of one protein may satisfy the criterion, but they would be far from the necessary complement to create a living cell. For a minimal cell, 60,000 proteins of 100 different configurations would be needed.5,10 If these raw materials could be evolved at the same time, and if they were not more complex on average to evolve than the iso-1-cytochrome c molecule, and if these proteins were stacked at the cell's construction site, then we may make a gross underestimation of what the chances would be to evolve that first cell. That probability is one chance in more than 104,478,296, a number that numbs the mind because it has 4,478,296 zeros. If we consider one chance in 10150 as the standard for impossible, then the evolution of the first cell is more than 104,478,146 times more impossible in probability than that standard.

Reproduction may be called a regularity because billions of people have witnessed billions of new individuals arising that way, and in no other way, for thousands of years. The origin of life was a unique event and certainly not a regularity. Therefore, according to mathematical logicians, the only possibilities left are that life either was generated by chance or by deliberate design. The standard for impossible events eliminated evolution so the only remaining possibility is that life was designed into existence. The probability of the correctness of this conclusion is the inverse of the probability that eliminated evolution, that is, 104,478,296chances to one.

Although the certainty of design has been demonstrated beyond doubt, science cannot identify the designer. Given a designer with the intelligence to construct a cell and all life forms, it is not logical that he would construct only one cell and leave the rest to chance. The only logical possibility is that the designer would design and build the entire structure, the entire biosphere, to specified perfection. That seems to be as far as science can go.

Life was designed. It did not evolve. The certainty of these conclusions is 104,478,296 (1 followed by 4,478,296 zeros) to one. This evidence suggests a Designer who designed and built the entire biosphere and, for it to function, the entire universe. Primary and secondary sources from history properly provide additional information on the Designer because the biological sciences are not equal to that task.
 

Woodsie

Feast yer eyes ..
Tipping Member
Hey @MuzztheEagle hope you’re having a good day. Sometimes in life timing is a peculiar thing. A great friend of mine called in on his way out to Bathurst this morning. He and his wife are part of the academic crowd, my mate has his doctorate in both Biology and Philosophy, but funnily enough is a staunch believer in a creator God.

We got to talking on the subject of evolution and this thread filtered into our conversation. I showed him some of the scientific inspired posts on here which support the theory of evolution and deny a creator God. He directed me to the following for your perusal.

EVOLUTION IS BIOLOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE!
Charles Darwin was daydreaming when he wrote that he could visualize "in some warm little pond," with all sorts of salts and electricity, the spontaneous generation of the first living cell.1Darwin's dream of the magical powers of salts and electricity may have come from his grandfather. Mary Shelley wrote of him in 1831 in her introduction to Frankenstein. "They talked of the experiments of Dr. Darwin . . . who preserved a piece of vermicelli in a glass case, till by some extraordinary means it began to move with voluntary motion." She goes on to speculate that galvanism (electricity) was the extraordinary means.2All theories need testing, so I bought some vermicelli pasta, kept it in salt water in a test tube for a month, and never saw any motion, voluntary or otherwise. I also used a tesla coil to conduct "galvanism" through it to a fluorescent bulb. The bulb lit and the vermicelli eventually began to cook, but never came to life.

"Darwin's bulldog," Thomas Huxley, had a vision of himself on the early earth as "a witness of the evolution of living protoplasm from non-living matter."3 In Huxley's day, the cell was blissfully considered simply a blob of protoplasm. Huxley also may have read Mary Shelley's subtitle to Frankenstein, "The Modern Prometheus."2Prometheus was the Greek mythical Titan, who formed a man of clay, then animated it. This myth may be the earliest reference to abiogenesis, the animation of inorganic materials. In order not to leave that possibility untried, I fashioned a clay man and directed the tesla-coil spark over it to light the bulb. The clay man was not animated.

Evolutionists currently invoke the "primeval soup" to expand the "warm little pond" into a larger venue, the oceans. They aim to spontaneously generate the first cell so they must thicken the salt water with (take a breath) polysaccharides, lipids, amino acids, alpha helixes, polypeptide chains, assembled quaternary protein subunits, and nucleotides, all poised to self-combine into functional cellular structures, energy systems, long-chain proteins and nucleic acids.4Then during an electrical storm, just the right mix of DNA, mRNA, ribosomes, cell membranes and enzymes are envisioned in the right place at the right time and the first cell is thunderbolted together and springs to life.5 That marvelous first cell, the story goes, filled the oceans with progeny competing in incredible polysaccharide, lipid, amino acid, nucleotide, and cannibalistic feasts. The predators thereby thinned the soup to the watery oceans we have today while the prey escaped by mystically transmuting themselves into the current complex animals and plants, or perhaps vice versa because no one was there to record it. We are assured by the disciples of Darwin and Huxley that the "once upon a pond" story to obtain a blob of protoplasm is still sufficient for the spontaneous generation of the cell as we know it today. All demur when asked for evidence. All balk when asked to reverse-engineer a cell in the laboratory in spite of the fact that laboratories rival nature and reverse engineering is orders of magnitude easier than engineering an original design. One wonders why they balk if cell stuff is so easily self-generated and carbon molecules seem to have such an innate tendency to self-combine.

To test simply the alleged self-combining tendency of carbon, I placed one microliter of India (lampblack) ink in 27 ml. of distilled water. The ink streaked for the bottom of the test tube where it formed a dark haze which completely diffused to an even shade of gray in 14 hours. The carbon stayed diffused, not aggregated as when dropped on paper. At this simple level, there is no evidence that the "primeval soup" is anything but fanciful imagination.

In science, the burden of evidence is on the proposer of the theory. So although the evolutionists have the burden of providing evidence for their fanciful tales, they take no responsibility for a detailed account or for any evidence demonstrating feasibility. Contrarily, they go so far as to imply that anyone holding them to the normal requirements of science is feebleminded, deranged, or evil. For example, Professor Richard Dawkins has been quoted as saying, "It is absolutely safe to say that, if you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is ignorant, stupid, or insane (or wicked, but I'd rather not consider that)."6 Instead of taking proper responsibility for the burden of evidence, the evolutionist propagandizes by the intimidation of name calling.

To set a better example, let us take up the evolutionist's burden of evidence to see where it leads. Our first observation is that apparently all functions in a living organism are based largely upon the structures of its proteins. The trail of the first cell therefore leads us to the microbiological geometry of amino acids and a search for the probability of creating a protein by mindless chance as specified by evolution. Hubert Yockey published a monograph on the microbiology, information theory, and mathematics necessary to accomplish that feat. Accordingly, the probability of evolving one molecule of iso-1-cytochrome c, a small protein common in plants and animals, is an astounding one chance in 2.3 times ten billion vigintillion. The magnitude of this impossibility may be appreciated by realizing that ten billion vigintillion is one followed by 75 zeros. Or to put it in evolutionary terms, if a random mutation is provided every second from the alleged birth of the universe, then to date that protein molecule would be only 43% of the way to completion. Yockey concluded, "The origin of life by chance in a primeval soup is impossible in probability in the same way that a perpetual motion machine is impossible in probability."7

Richard Dawkins implicitly agreed with Yockey by stating, "Suppose we want to suggest, for instance, that life began when both DNA and its protein-based replication machinery spontaneously chanced to come into existence. We can allow ourselves the luxury of such an extravagant theory, provided that the odds against this coincidence occurring on a planet do not exceed 100 billion billion to one."8The 100 billion billion is 1020. So Dawkins' own criterion for impossible in probability, one chance in more than 1020, has been exceeded by 50 orders of magnitude for only one molecule of one small protein. Now that Professor Dawkins has joined the ranks of non-believers in evolution, politesse forbids inquiring whether he considers himself "ignorant, stupid, insane, or wicked."

Let us proceed to criteria more stringent. For example, Borel stated that phenomena with very small probabilities do not occur. He settled arbitrarily on the probability of one chance in 1050 as that small probability. Again according to this more stringent criterion, we see that evolving one molecule of one protein would not occur by a wide margin, this time 25 orders of magnitude.9

Let us go further. According to Dembski, Borel did not adequately distinguish those highly improbable events properly attributed to chance from those properly attributed to something else and Borel did not clarify what concrete numerical values correspond to small probabilities. So Dembski repaired those deficiencies and formulated a criterion so stringent that it jolts the mind. He estimated 1080elementary particles in the universe and asked how many times per second an event could occur. He found 1045. He then calculated the number of seconds from the beginning of the universe to the present and for good measure multiplied by one billion for 1025 seconds in all. He thereby obtained 1080 x 1045 x 1025 = 10150 for his Law of Small Probability.9

I have not been able to find a criterion more stringent than Dembski's one chance in 10150. Anything as rare as that probability had absolutely no possibility of happening by chance at any time by any conceivable specifying agent by any conceivable process throughout all of cosmic history. And if the specified event is not a regularity, as the origin of life is not, and if it is not chance, as Dembski's criterion and Yockey's probability may prove it is not, then it must have happened by design, the only remaining possibility.

Now to return to the probability of evolving one molecule of one protein as one chance in 1075, we see that it does not satisfy Dembski's criterion of one chance in 10150. The simultaneous availability of two molecules of one protein may satisfy the criterion, but they would be far from the necessary complement to create a living cell. For a minimal cell, 60,000 proteins of 100 different configurations would be needed.5,10 If these raw materials could be evolved at the same time, and if they were not more complex on average to evolve than the iso-1-cytochrome c molecule, and if these proteins were stacked at the cell's construction site, then we may make a gross underestimation of what the chances would be to evolve that first cell. That probability is one chance in more than 104,478,296, a number that numbs the mind because it has 4,478,296 zeros. If we consider one chance in 10150 as the standard for impossible, then the evolution of the first cell is more than 104,478,146 times more impossible in probability than that standard.

Reproduction may be called a regularity because billions of people have witnessed billions of new individuals arising that way, and in no other way, for thousands of years. The origin of life was a unique event and certainly not a regularity. Therefore, according to mathematical logicians, the only possibilities left are that life either was generated by chance or by deliberate design. The standard for impossible events eliminated evolution so the only remaining possibility is that life was designed into existence. The probability of the correctness of this conclusion is the inverse of the probability that eliminated evolution, that is, 104,478,296chances to one.

Although the certainty of design has been demonstrated beyond doubt, science cannot identify the designer. Given a designer with the intelligence to construct a cell and all life forms, it is not logical that he would construct only one cell and leave the rest to chance. The only logical possibility is that the designer would design and build the entire structure, the entire biosphere, to specified perfection. That seems to be as far as science can go.

Life was designed. It did not evolve. The certainty of these conclusions is 104,478,296 (1 followed by 4,478,296 zeros) to one. This evidence suggests a Designer who designed and built the entire biosphere and, for it to function, the entire universe. Primary and secondary sources from history properly provide additional information on the Designer because the biological sciences are not equal to that task.

That is the most self serving sack of misinformation I have ever read ...
 

Kevinward777

First Grader
That is the most self serving sack of misinformation I have ever read ...
What self service or gain does anyone garner from sharing it? Your post already affirms the part where it states that insults and ridicule are the first port of call to those who aren’t “smart” enough to understand evolution.
 

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