Kevinward777
First Grader
Thanks for taking the time to watch the first two. The Hebrew word for circle in Isaiah is best translated as spherical in structure, and Isaiah was born in the 8th century BC.
omnipotent beings discussion
- Thread starter mozgrame
- Start date
MuzztheEagle
Bencher
I'm not going to assess all off them (or lazily post a link) just give me your best 1-3.
Kevinward777
First Grader
Kevinward777
First Grader
This small article is a good read. If you don’t believe then the last paragraph should not cause an offence.The Bible begins with these words. "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." There are many people in the world who do not believe that statement. Some say God does not exist, and therefore, the Bible cannot be His Word. Sometimes we are led to believe that all true scientists do not believe in God, or the Bible. However, this is not correct. True science is not opposed to the Bible. In fact, science, properly applied and understood, proves the Bible to be inspired. The Bible is not a science book. However, whenever it makes a statement relating to a scientific principle or fact, it is completely accurate.
Let us notice some examples of the harmony between science and the Bible. "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" (Genesis. 1:1) This was written by Moses through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit about 1500 B.C. In 1820 A.D. a man named Hubert Spencer gave the world five scientific principles by which man may study the unknown. They are time, force, energy, space, and matter. However, Moses, by inspiration, gave us those scientific principles in Genesis 1:1.
All of Spencer's scientific principles are right there in Genesis 1:1.
For many years man has estimated the number of stars in the heavens, and he has increased the estimate many times. Finally, in the 1900's, man determined that the stars could not be counted. God's book has always told us this fact. Notice Genesis 15:5. "Then He brought him outside and said, Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them. And He said to him, So shall your descendants be."
God was telling Abraham that just as the stars in the heavens cannot be numbered, Abraham's descendants would be more than could be numbered. If man had paid attention to this verse, he would never have tried to count the stars! Another example of how science and the Bible agree relates to the blood in our bodies. Man now knows that blood is necessary for survival. If our bodies lose too much blood, we will die. However, man did not discover this principle until the 19th century. Before that time, blood-letting was practiced, and many died because draining blood from their bodies drained the very source of life. George Washington, the first President of the United States, is said to have died in this way.
Moses, again writing by inspiration hundreds of years ago, told us something man did not know until much later. "For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul"(Leviticus 17:11). How could Moses have known about the life-giving qualities of blood unless God had revealed it to him?
In the book of Job, the inspired writer in one verse reveals two scientific principles not known to man until much later. "He stretches out the north over empty space; He hangs the earth on nothing" (Job. 26:7). There is a place in the North where no stars exist , which cannot be seen with the naked eye. How did the writer of Job know this? Also, the same verse declares that God hangs the earth on nothing. We know this is true, but we have only known it for about 350 years. God's inspired writer told us over 3000 years ago that the earth is held in place by gravitational forces!
When we come to the psalms, we find an interesting statement in Psalm 8:8. The passage mentions "The birds of the air, And the fish of the sea that pass through the paths of the seas." The phrase, "the paths of the seas"caused a man named Matthew Fontaine Maury to begin a search which led to the discovery of ocean currents, the natural "paths of the seas" created by God. Maury concluded that if God's Book said they were there, they must be there! He was right.
The Bible is not a geography book or an archaeology book. However, whenever the Bible makes a statement relating to these sciences, it is completely accurate. Notice the Lord's statement for example, in Luke 10:30. Then Jesus answered and said: "A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, who stripped him of his clothing, wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead." Now, Jericho is Northeast of Jerusalem, and normally we do not speak of going down when we refer to going North. We generally speak of going down South and up North, don't we? Why did the Lord say the man went down from Jerusalem? It is because Jerusalem is some 2500 feet above sea level. When one leaves Jerusalem in Palestine he goes down to go anywhere in the area. Therefore, our Lord's statement is completely accurate, and is recorded accurately by inspiration. No, the Bible is not a geography book, but it is geographically accurate in every instance.
Many archaeologists have explored the land of Palestine. Has any one of those scientists ever discovered anything which disproves the Bible? No. Many archaeological discoveries have confirmed the Biblical record. However, none has ever contradicted the Word of God. This ought to be very reassuring to those of us who believe the Bible to be the inspired Word of God. At the same time, it ought to convince the skeptic, the agnostic, and the atheist, that this Book is God's Book. Therefore, not only does God exist, but He has revealed His Will to man.
Many other examples of the harmony between science and the Bible could be given. However, the ones we have examined are sufficient to show that the Bible is God's Book. As the apostle Paul declared, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work" (2 Timothy 3:16-17).
The Bible is accurate in matters of science, and it is accurate in the matter of salvation. The Bible tells us that to be saved we must believe in Jesus Christ. "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." However, the same Lord said, "I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish" (Luke 13:3). Jesus also spoke of confessing Him before men. "Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 10:32-33). And Jesus declared, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned" (Mark 16:16). It is then that the Lord Himself adds us to the church of the New Testament, the one body of believers. If the Bible is accurate in matters of science, it is accurate in the matter of salvation.
Will you respond to the inspired Word?
Let us notice some examples of the harmony between science and the Bible. "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" (Genesis. 1:1) This was written by Moses through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit about 1500 B.C. In 1820 A.D. a man named Hubert Spencer gave the world five scientific principles by which man may study the unknown. They are time, force, energy, space, and matter. However, Moses, by inspiration, gave us those scientific principles in Genesis 1:1.
- "In the beginning" --time;
- "God"-- force;
- "created" -- energy;
- "the heavens" --space;
- "and the earth" -- matter.
All of Spencer's scientific principles are right there in Genesis 1:1.
For many years man has estimated the number of stars in the heavens, and he has increased the estimate many times. Finally, in the 1900's, man determined that the stars could not be counted. God's book has always told us this fact. Notice Genesis 15:5. "Then He brought him outside and said, Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them. And He said to him, So shall your descendants be."
God was telling Abraham that just as the stars in the heavens cannot be numbered, Abraham's descendants would be more than could be numbered. If man had paid attention to this verse, he would never have tried to count the stars! Another example of how science and the Bible agree relates to the blood in our bodies. Man now knows that blood is necessary for survival. If our bodies lose too much blood, we will die. However, man did not discover this principle until the 19th century. Before that time, blood-letting was practiced, and many died because draining blood from their bodies drained the very source of life. George Washington, the first President of the United States, is said to have died in this way.
Moses, again writing by inspiration hundreds of years ago, told us something man did not know until much later. "For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul"(Leviticus 17:11). How could Moses have known about the life-giving qualities of blood unless God had revealed it to him?
In the book of Job, the inspired writer in one verse reveals two scientific principles not known to man until much later. "He stretches out the north over empty space; He hangs the earth on nothing" (Job. 26:7). There is a place in the North where no stars exist , which cannot be seen with the naked eye. How did the writer of Job know this? Also, the same verse declares that God hangs the earth on nothing. We know this is true, but we have only known it for about 350 years. God's inspired writer told us over 3000 years ago that the earth is held in place by gravitational forces!
When we come to the psalms, we find an interesting statement in Psalm 8:8. The passage mentions "The birds of the air, And the fish of the sea that pass through the paths of the seas." The phrase, "the paths of the seas"caused a man named Matthew Fontaine Maury to begin a search which led to the discovery of ocean currents, the natural "paths of the seas" created by God. Maury concluded that if God's Book said they were there, they must be there! He was right.
The Bible is not a geography book or an archaeology book. However, whenever the Bible makes a statement relating to these sciences, it is completely accurate. Notice the Lord's statement for example, in Luke 10:30. Then Jesus answered and said: "A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, who stripped him of his clothing, wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead." Now, Jericho is Northeast of Jerusalem, and normally we do not speak of going down when we refer to going North. We generally speak of going down South and up North, don't we? Why did the Lord say the man went down from Jerusalem? It is because Jerusalem is some 2500 feet above sea level. When one leaves Jerusalem in Palestine he goes down to go anywhere in the area. Therefore, our Lord's statement is completely accurate, and is recorded accurately by inspiration. No, the Bible is not a geography book, but it is geographically accurate in every instance.
Many archaeologists have explored the land of Palestine. Has any one of those scientists ever discovered anything which disproves the Bible? No. Many archaeological discoveries have confirmed the Biblical record. However, none has ever contradicted the Word of God. This ought to be very reassuring to those of us who believe the Bible to be the inspired Word of God. At the same time, it ought to convince the skeptic, the agnostic, and the atheist, that this Book is God's Book. Therefore, not only does God exist, but He has revealed His Will to man.
Many other examples of the harmony between science and the Bible could be given. However, the ones we have examined are sufficient to show that the Bible is God's Book. As the apostle Paul declared, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work" (2 Timothy 3:16-17).
The Bible is accurate in matters of science, and it is accurate in the matter of salvation. The Bible tells us that to be saved we must believe in Jesus Christ. "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." However, the same Lord said, "I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish" (Luke 13:3). Jesus also spoke of confessing Him before men. "Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 10:32-33). And Jesus declared, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned" (Mark 16:16). It is then that the Lord Himself adds us to the church of the New Testament, the one body of believers. If the Bible is accurate in matters of science, it is accurate in the matter of salvation.
Will you respond to the inspired Word?
Muzz pickd in one ... it's all in the translation ... what a convienient debatig tool ...
Kevinward777
First Grader
Anyway... I’m off for my jog... have a great day!
Kevinward777
First Grader
So, in the beginning nothing created everything. We must be stardust. God or stardust? Mmm that’s a hard one.... he’s one of the learned men is Neil.
Kevinward777
First Grader
Then there’s this genius (another learned dude) who admits a creator (in his roundabout Uppity way) feckin hilarious. Anyway I’m off, going to enjoy creation, the fresh air, abundant plant life and the beautiful waterfalls God has provided us with. God bless you @MuzztheEagle and @Woodsie
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WoW ... one think God's cheer squad can do is stretch a long bow ...
Just a couple .... since the first cavemen sat at night and pondered the heavens .. it was observable that there was innumerable stars ... to claim that by stating that in the scriptures is somehow confirmation of some greater scientific knowledge is laughable ... ask tour 7 year old to count them ... she may be a genious and say they are unable to be counted ...
For 10.000's of years men had waged war and seen men die from blood loss ... in fact many sacrifices both animal and human relied on cutting an artery and the victim bleeding to death ... the need of blood for living was not unknown for thousands of years ... to claim that splashing some on an alter as life giving .. and stating that is proof of scientific knowledge is also ridiculous ... also the mistreatment of patients by letting blood was in fact an acknowledgement of the importance of blood ... NOT as you propose an ignorance to it's importance ... the object was by removing some blood the body would stimulated into producing more freash untainted blood ....
can't read any more ... my brain hurts ..
MuzztheEagle
Bencher
So the suggested alternative at the time (1500 BC) to the earth resting in space would be that the Earth rested on some great animal. It's pretty easy to dismiss and would be something a 5 year old would probably do within minutes.
"Well what does the turtle rest on?"
"......another turtle....?"
"Then what about that turtle?"
".....It's turtles all the way down!"
ACTUALLY, this is all total BS from Ray comfort who lazily grabbed an idea from Hindus (except for the bit about the 5 year old that I'm confident in). The 1500 BC date is also exaggerated and most scholars put Job between the 7th and 5th Centuries BC.
There were plenty of myths around at the time like this though, but also Scientists who were intent on discovering the truths of the Earth through observation. Including the observation of the movements of sun, moon and starts in and over the nights sky. The theory was most likely well established already, in fact Greek philosophers were discussing the possibility of a spherical earth by at least the 6th Century BCE.
But let's just let Job do the talking:
38:4 (NIV) “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
6 On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
The whole idea is also guilty of double standard and cherry picking. Some interpretations are useful if the can prove a point while others are irrelevant or incorrect when they show something to be incompatible. I'm happy to argue that there are far more definitive scientific inaccuracies in the bible than possible truths. So let's try an experiment, you give me the standard by which you assess phrases and interpretations and I will then apply it across the bible to see just how accurate it is.
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Kevinward777
First Grader
But you listen to the two fools who I posted in the very short, but completely ridiculous videos above. I don’t imagine you or @Woodsie will comment on what they say. About as credible as this guy.
An interesting aside ... when the notion that the Earth and planets orbit the Sun ... rather than visa versa was first tabled .... many learned people diagreed, on good grounds, because the observations weren't conclusive .... it was not until the idea of eclipital orbits was muted that the observations became predictable and observable with confidence ..
MuzztheEagle
Bencher
@Kevinward777 you seem intent to drag this back to your (previously failed) attempts to discredit science and those who practice it.
So I will go back to my point from earlier today. That's fine - I think it is good to be skeptical and your free not to believe or follow it. Science is not a religion to me and I don't believe in Science. I do believe that science is the best tool that we have to interpret and understand the world that we live in. I've answered countless questions on multiple fields of scientific study so isn't it time for you to reciprocate? After all, it is the word and work of God - so what do you have to fear.
So let's apply (together) some skepticism to your beliefs:
How did Australian animals make it to, or evolve in Australia after the great flood?
So I will go back to my point from earlier today. That's fine - I think it is good to be skeptical and your free not to believe or follow it. Science is not a religion to me and I don't believe in Science. I do believe that science is the best tool that we have to interpret and understand the world that we live in. I've answered countless questions on multiple fields of scientific study so isn't it time for you to reciprocate? After all, it is the word and work of God - so what do you have to fear.
So let's apply (together) some skepticism to your beliefs:
How did Australian animals make it to, or evolve in Australia after the great flood?
MuzztheEagle
Bencher
Actually, I will just answer that for you. God did it blah blah blah....mysterious ways, omnipotent etc.
Cool, OK well I guess I can't argue with that!
Except, if you believe that the scripture is literal and God is as powerful as claimed, this is what God has done (knowing full well what would happen - infinite knowledge);
Now I'm guessing that infinite knowledge is better than mine, but that all seems pretty ordinary IMHO. I wouldn't want him running the NRL 😉
You are willing to believe all this. But if some Muslim decides to start blowing people up then they are a madman for believing a literal interpretation of something within in a book.
I don't understand you say? Well you don't understand Mohammad and his 2000 virgins, so don't criticize anyone the next time a bus blows up. I guess you wouldn't anyway, as it's all part of God's plan to deceive and divide us.
Now, you will tell that I'm being silly and that there is no comparison to make. But consider this:
So what is someone to do, according to your advice? Start listening to the next religious person that comes along who claims to have God in their heart?
It is downright reckless. With your guidance just think where people could end up.
Cool, OK well I guess I can't argue with that!
Except, if you believe that the scripture is literal and God is as powerful as claimed, this is what God has done (knowing full well what would happen - infinite knowledge);
- Puts his child in a garden and tells him not to do something - duh
- Then creates an evil and stupid woman who manipulates Adam to do what was forbidden.
- Kicks them out to punish them for what happened, along with painful childbirth and eternal hell just for good measure.
- They learn nothing and the world soon goes bad. Sorry, what was the lesson? Don't learn and question stuff. Hard to image how that went wrong 🙂
- God gets angry and wipes almost everything out. Damning those that didn't get on the boat to eternal hell (even if they hadn't heard of him)
- Noah and co repopulate the Earth....but it all goes bad again. But this time God forgives us.....hang on what did we do...oh, because we're flawed....wait wasn't that god.....no original sin....but didn't God know that was going to happen, essentially making him responsible? Oh well looks like we're good no so never mind.
- Also God has a lot of fun testing people's devotion by having them murder innocents for him. Sometimes he will stop you sometimes not. It's good to keep you on your toes.
- So Jesus comes down and gives the ultimate sacrifice....except then come back from the dead and goes back to being God / with God. So did anything really bad actually happen to him? Is he now in hell in place of us? No! That's still there for us, bugger.
- Jesus and his disciples tell a select few people while obscuring the truth from others and flat out ignoring the majority of the Earth so that they can be cast into hell for their ignorance. Wait, weren't we meant to be ignorant?
- Thousands of years pass and Christianity (along with many other religions) rises in popularity to take over the world. Fracturing into multiple sects of un"True" Christians who use the word of god to control, torture and kill each other.
- Eventually people get sick of God and his BS and decide to educate themselves. But God in his infinite wisdom (mainly just his supporters though) declares it the end of times and punishes the those in the world who will not worship him or were deceived by his own plan to deceive people. Genius.
Now I'm guessing that infinite knowledge is better than mine, but that all seems pretty ordinary IMHO. I wouldn't want him running the NRL 😉
You are willing to believe all this. But if some Muslim decides to start blowing people up then they are a madman for believing a literal interpretation of something within in a book.
I don't understand you say? Well you don't understand Mohammad and his 2000 virgins, so don't criticize anyone the next time a bus blows up. I guess you wouldn't anyway, as it's all part of God's plan to deceive and divide us.
Now, you will tell that I'm being silly and that there is no comparison to make. But consider this:
- You are advocating for people to find God
- You will not make an statement on what that God actually is
- You cannot explain to anyone how it is that you find God, other than to open your heart and mind to him
- You have declared that God saves only the most in need of saving (i.e. those with likely disorders and serious problems).
- You cannot judge or state who is right or wrong in the mind of God or who will be rewarded at the end of it all.
- You proclaim that the end times are near (better get moving/believin')
- You encourage the idea that science and people who use it are here to deceive us. Does this include medicine? Would you discourage people from using medicine or psychology in favour of religion?
- You claim to know the correct interpretations of the bible yet also claim that know one can truly hear the word of God (e.g. me). And that the actual word is designed to deceive.
- You have said to seek out those who know more about the true meanings of the bible for interpretation but are opposed to the corruption that organized religion brings.
- You claim not to judge but believe in the literal word of a book that is full of judgments and instructions on how to carry them out.
- You meet criticism of ideas with personal attacks on those making them and ignore anything that is too hard too discuss or too far from your own truth. YOUR God knows better.
- You believe religion is so sacred that it must never be criticized or mocked.
So what is someone to do, according to your advice? Start listening to the next religious person that comes along who claims to have God in their heart?
It is downright reckless. With your guidance just think where people could end up.
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Kevinward777
First Grader
I tip my hat to you @MuzztheEagle, you make some very reasonable assertions as to why it is so hard for you to trust in a Holy, righteous, all powerful creator God. I asked many of those same questions for a long time. It was hard for me to accept that I needed saving, I might have been a ratbag, but I was surrounded by other ratbags and for the most part accepted the lifestyle I had embraced.
Like I said, I came to faith alone in a house, without a bible, while my ex fiancée was off paying a visit to her brother who was serving a life sentence in jail. There was no tv going, no radio on, just me and an awareness that my life was going down the ****ter. I actually raged at God that afternoon, then something unthinkably amazing occurred and things have never been the same. The experiential (supernatural) aspect of knowing Jesus and the Holy Spirit is what makes my belief in the bible unbreakable. It wasn’t until later that I began reading the scriptures.
I don’t think that I am superior to you, and apologise for engaging in intellectual debates which culminated in me taking the Mickey out of certain ideas you believe in.
The following article is by no means why I believe in God, it is however a sound summation of certain aspects that you may (or may not) find interesting. Believe it or not, I appreciate reading your posts, even though I am not in agreement with all of the content.
History of the Bible - Who wrote the Bible?
The Bible was written over a span of 1500 years, by 40 writers. Unlike other religious writings, the Bible reads as a factual news account of real events, places, people, and dialogue. Historians and archaeologists have repeatedly confirmed its authenticity.
Using the writers' own writing styles and personalities, God shows us who he is and what it's like to know him.
There is one central message consistently carried by all 40 writers of the Bible: God, who created us all, desires a relationship with us. He calls us to know him and trust him.
The Bible not only inspires us, it explains life and God to us. It does not answer all the questions we might have, but enough of them. It shows us how to live with purpose and compassion. How to relate to others. It encourages us to rely on God for strength, direction, and enjoy his love for us. The Bible also tells us how we can have eternal life.
Multiple categories of evidence support the historical accuracy of the Bible as well as its claim to divine authorship. Here are a few reasons you can trust the Bible.
Archaeology confirms the Bible’s historical accuracy.
The Bible has a tremendous amount of historical detail, so not everything mentioned in it has yet been found through archaeology. However, not one archaeological find has conflicted with what the Bible records.2
In contrast, news reporter Lee Strobel comments about the Book of Mormon: "Archaeology has repeatedly failed to substantiate its claims about events that supposedly occurred long ago in the Americas. I remember writing to the Smithsonian Institute to inquire about whether there was any evidence supporting the claims of Mormonism, only to be told in unequivocal terms that its archaeologists see 'no direct connection between the archaeology of the New World and the subject matter of the book.'" Archaeologists have never located cities, persons, names, or places mentioned in the Book of Mormon.3
Many of the ancient locations mentioned by Luke, in the Book of Acts in the New Testament, have been identified through archaeology. "In all, Luke names thirty-two countries, fifty-four cities and nine islands without an error."4
Archaeology has also refuted many ill-founded theories about the Bible. For example, a theory still taught in some colleges today asserts that Moses could not have written the Pentateuch (the first five books of the Bible), because writing had not been invented in his day. Then archaeologists discovered the Black Stele. "It had wedge-shaped characters on it and contained the detailed laws of Hammurabi. Was it post-Moses? No! It was pre-Mosaic; not only that, but it was pre-Abraham (2,000 B.C.). It preceded Moses' writings by at least three centuries."5
Archaeology consistently confirms the historical accuracy of the Bible.
Click here to see a chart listing some of the major archaeological finds.
The Bible today is the same as what was originally written.
The accuracy of today’s Old Testament was confirmed in 1947 when archaeologists found “The Dead Sea Scrolls” along today's West Bank in Israel. "The Dead Sea Scrolls" contained Old Testament scripture dating 1,000 years older than any manuscripts we had. When comparing the manuscripts at hand with these, from 1,000 years earlier, we find agreement 99.5% of the time. And the .5% differences are minor spelling variances and sentence structure that doesn't change the meaning of the sentence.
Regarding the New Testament, it is humanity's most reliable ancient document.
All ancient manuscripts were written on papyrus, which didn’t have much of a shelf life. So people hand copied originals, to maintain the message and circulate it to others.
Few people doubt Plato’s writing of “The Republic.” It’s a classic, written by Plato around 380 B.C. The earliest copies we have of it are dated 900 A.D., which is a 1,300 year time lag from when he wrote it. There are only seven copies in existence.
Caesar’s “Gallic Wars” were written around 100-44 B.C. The copies we have today are dated 1,000 years after he wrote it. We have ten copies.
When it comes to the New Testament, written between 50-100 A.D, there are more than 5,000 copies. All are within 50-225 years of their original writing. Further, when it came to Scripture, scribes (monks) were meticulous in their copying of original manuscripts. They checked and rechecked their work, to make sure it perfectly matched. What the New Testament writers originally wrote is preserved better than any other ancient manuscript. We can be more certain of what we read about Jesus’ life and words, than we are certain of the writings of Caesar, Plato, Artistotle and Homer.
For a comparison of the New Testament to other ancient writings, click here.
More reasons to trust the gospel accounts of Jesus.
Here's how this works. Imagine you are collecting biographies of President John F. Kennedy. You find many biographies describing his family, his presidency, his goal of putting a man on the moon, and his handling of the Cuban Missile Crisis. Regarding Jesus, do we find multiple biographies reporting similar facts about his life? Yes. Here is a sampling of facts about Jesus, and where you would find that fact reported in each of their biographies.
| Matthew | Mark | Luke | John |
Jesus was born of a virgin | 1:18-25 | - | 1:27, 34 | - |
He was born in Bethlehem | 2:1 | - | 2:4 | - |
He lived in Nazareth | 2:23 | 1:9, 24 | 2:51, 4:16 | 1:45, 46 |
Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist | 3:1-15 | 1:4-9 | 3:1-22 | - |
He performed miracles of healing | 4:24, etc. | 1:34, etc. | 4:40, etc. | 9:7 |
He walked on water | 14:25 | 6:48 | - | 6:19 |
He fed five thousand people with five loaves and two fish | 14:7 | 6:38 | 9:13 | 6:9 |
Jesus taught the common people | 5:1 | 4:25, 7:28 | 9:11 | 18:20 |
He spent time with social outcasts | 9:10, 21:31 | 2:15, 16 | 5:29, 7:29 | 8:3 |
He argued with the religious elite | 15:7 | 7:6 | 12:56 | 8:1-58 |
The religious elite plotted to kill him | 12:14 | 3:6 | 19:47 | 11:45-57 |
They handed Jesus over to the Romans | 27:1, 2 | 15:1 | 23:1 | 18:28 |
Jesus was flogged | 27:26 | 15:15 | - | 19:1 |
He was crucified | 27:26-50 | 15:22-37 | 23:33-46 | 19:16-30 |
He was buried in a tomb | 27:57-61 | 15:43-47 | 23:50-55 | 19:38-42 |
Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to his followers | 28:1-20 | 16:1-20 | 24:1-53 | 20:1-31 |
So the early church readily accepted the four gospels because they agreed with what was already common knowledge about Jesus' life.
Each of the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, read like news reports, a factual accounting of the days events, each from their own perspective. The descriptions are unique to each writer, but the facts are in agreement.
For a sample from one of the Gospels, click here.
Here’s why the gospels were written.
However, when news of Jesus spread beyond Jerusalem, and the eyewitnesses were no longer readily accessible, there was a need for written accounts to educate others about Jesus' life and ministry.
If you would like to know more about Jesus, this article will give you a good summary of his life: Beyond Blind Faith.
How the books of the New Testament were determined.
The other New Testament writers had immediate access to Jesus as well: James and Jude were half-brothers of Jesus who initially did not believe in him. Peter was one of the 12 apostles. Paul started out as a violent opponent of Christianity and a member of the religious ruling class, but he became an ardent follower of Jesus, convinced that Jesus rose from the dead.
The reports in the New Testament books lined up with what thousands of eyewitnesses had seen for themselves.
When other books were written hundreds of years later, it wasn't difficult for the church to spot them as forgeries. For example, the Gospel of Judas was written by the Gnostic sect, around 130-170 A.D., long after Judas' death. The Gospel of Thomas, written around 140 A.D., is another example of a counterfeit writing erroneously bearing an apostles' name. These and other Gnostic gospels conflicted with the known teachings of Jesus and the Old Testament, and often contained numerous historical and geographical errors.7
In A.D. 367, Athanasius formally listed the 27 New Testament books (the same list that we have today). Soon after, Jerome and Augustine circulated this same list. These lists, however, were not necessary for the majority of Christians. By and large the whole church had recognized and used the same list of books since the first century after Christ.
As the church grew beyond the Greek-speaking lands and needed to translate the Scriptures, and as splinter sects continued to pop up with their own competing holy books, it became more important to have a definitive list.
Historians confirm what the Bible says about Jesus.
The gospels report that Jesus of Nazareth performed many miracles, was executed by the Romans, and rose from the dead. Numerous ancient historians back the Bible's account of the life of Jesus and his followers:
Cornelius Tacitus (A.D. 55-120), an historian of first-century Rome, is considered one of the most accurate historians of the ancient world.8 An excerpt from Tacitus tells us that the Roman emperor Nero "inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class...called Christians. ...Christus [Christ], from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus...."9
Flavius Josephus, a Jewish historian (A.D. 38-100), wrote about Jesus in his Jewish Antiquities. From Josephus, "we learn that Jesus was a wise man who did surprising feats, taught many, won over followers from among Jews and Greeks, was believed to be the Messiah, was accused by the Jewish leaders, was condemned to be crucified by Pilate, and was considered to be resurrected."10
Suetonius, Pliny the Younger, and Thallus also wrote about Christian worship and persecution that is consistent with New Testament accounts.
Even the Jewish Talmud, certainly not biased toward Jesus, concurs about the major events of his life. From the Talmud, "we learn that Jesus was conceived out of wedlock, gathered disciples, made blasphemous claims about himself, and worked miracles, but these miracles are attributed to sorcery and not to God."11
This is remarkable information considering that most ancient historians focused on political and military leaders, not on obscure rabbis from distant provinces of the Roman Empire. Yet ancient historians (Jews, Greeks and Romans) confirm the major events that are presented in the New Testament, even though they were not believers themselves.
Does it matter if Jesus really did and said what is in the Gospels?
Is the New Testament an accurate, reliable presentation of Jesus? Yes. We can trust the New Testament because there is enormous factual support for it. This article touched on the following points: historians concur, archaeology concurs, the four Gospel biographies are in agreement, the preservation of document copies is remarkable, there is superior accuracy in the translations. All of this gives a solid foundation for believing that what we read today is what the original writers wrote and experienced in real life, in real places.
John, one of the writers sums it up well, "Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name."12
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Yes ... but apparently he is busy covering up the anal prober enthusiasts amongst them .... God was last heard muttering "I thought the bloody Catholics were enough of a problem with that bum stuff carry on " .....
Thanks. Agree, anal probing is always disturbing. Not sure why Aliens are so into it?
Considering the number of probers amongst God's flock ... I am starting to suspect he has a soft spot for them .... you know ...the old it's terrible ... (wink, wink) .....
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