omnipotent beings discussion

[MuzztheEagle]

@MuzztheEagle .. you need to sue your primary school, high school and university lectures for their failure to teach you even the most basic knowledge of the English language and the meaning of words ... if after all your years of education ... you are still unable to determine or conclude the meaning of a simple sentence in the scriptures without having an expert tell you the "real" meaning or current interpretation ... then you are a sad example of our education system ....

Damn it, you're right! I'm calling my lawyer as I write this!

I feel I am learning though, thanks in part to those caring, understanding and sharing Christians on this site
I'm learning to really listen to people....and God. When you learn to truly hear his voice then you simply cannot refute the evidence that he has given us. Then it is only a matter of giving in to faith

Take this as an example:

God is truly miraculous! So many people cured through his work and the faith that people have in it:

Testimonies - His Name Is Flowing Oil

Dalton, GA Radio Station Hope 93.3 WTTI airs healing testimonies every hour at 50 minutes after each hour. Click here to listen online to Hope 93.3.

hisnameisflowingoil.org

 

[Woodsie]

@MuzztheEagle .. just pondering .... you would think that there would be qazzillions to be made from a best selling "plain language" no intrepretation or right thinking explanation necessary ... 3rd millenia edition Bible ...

As, of course all Bible scholars would undoubtably reach the same conclusions as to the real message of the Gospels .. this should be easy to facilitate ... and concensus readily achieved ...

Personally I would like to read the contributions from the Westboro Baptist Church ... but that would just be for entertainment value .....

 

[MuzztheEagle]

@MuzztheEagle .. just pondering .... you would think that there would be qazzillions to be made from a best selling "plain language" no intrepretation or right thinking explanation necessary ... 3rd millenia edition Bible ...

As, of course all Bible scholars would undoubtably reach the same conclusions as to the real message of the Gospels .. this should be easy to facilitate ... and concensus readily achieved ...

Personally I would like to read the contributions from the Westboro Baptist Church ... but that would just be for entertainment value .....

Great idea!
I will start building the octagon....I mean ark
Two of each denomination enter.....only one denomination leaves with the beliefs they came in with

 

[Kevinward777]

Great idea!
I will start building the octagon....I mean ark
Two of each denomination enter.....only one denomination leaves with the beliefs they came in with
[/

 

[MuzztheEagle]

View attachment 13708

What's wrong Kev? Have you run out of cheeks?

 

[Kevinward777]

What's wrong Kev? Have you run out of cheeks?

The one thing that I have noticed with all of your huffing and puffing and I’m gonna blow your house down Muzz, is how you never actually clarify what it is you believe in. Sure, there’s been lots of wishy washy, I’m a man of logic jargon, but nothing pertaining to what you actually believe and why. I for one would love to hear it.

 

[MuzztheEagle]

The one thing that I have noticed with all of your huffing and puffing and I’m gonna blow your house down Muzz, is how you never actually clarify what it is you believe in. Sure, there’s been lots of wishy washy, I’m a man of logic jargon, but nothing pertaining to what you actually believe and why. I for one would love to hear it.

In terms of what? I outlined my religious beliefs for Moz a number of pages back after he asked. I will happily state it again now along with any other specific question you may have. I would point out though that you haven't been that brave. Other than stating that you believe in the word of JC you like to keep things as non specific as possible. The same goes for the majority of religious types here.
Personally, I would consider myself to be an agnostic atheist.
I do not believe that there is significant evidence to support the idea of a creator/god's existence and therefor I do not believe in one. I accept however that I cannot disprove the concept of a creator/god's existence so I do NOT believe that such an entity does NOT exist or you could say that I accept that there is a possibility that such an entity could exist.
In terms of specific religions; I do believe that those that I am familiar with are false (or follow insane and/or maniacal God). This includes all Christianity and Islam.

Edit: I'm pretty sure you asked my 20 questions previously on the topics of heaven, morality, the 10(/613) commandments that I answered as honestly as I could. And I have stated multiple times that people can ask for my belief on something and we can discus - and most importantly that I will change my mind if I'm shown to be wrong.

 

[Kevinward777]

In terms of what? I outlined my religious beliefs for Moz a number of pages back after he asked. I will happily state it again now along with any other specific question you may have. I would point out though that you haven't been that brave. Other than stating that you believe in the word of JC you like to keep things as non specific as possible. The same goes for the majority of religious types here.
Personally, I would consider myself to be an agnostic atheist.
I do not believe that there is significant evidence to support the idea of a creator/god's existence and therefor I do not believe in one. I accept however that I cannot disprove the concept of a creator/god's existence so I do NOT believe that such an entity does NOT exist or you could say that I accept that there is a possibility that such an entity could exist.
In terms of specific religions; I do believe that those that I am familiar with are false (or follow insane and/or maniacal God). This includes all Christianity and Islam.

Edit: I'm pretty sure you asked my 20 questions previously on the topics of heaven, morality, the 10(/613) commandments that I answered as honestly as I could. And I have stated multiple times that people can ask for my belief on something and we can discus - and most importantly that I will change my mind if I'm shown to be wrong.

Ask away in terms of my faith. I’ll answer anything you like, but I have stated this clearly already. How do you think the universe came into being? How do you explain the symbiotic relationships forming that are required for life to exist? Maniacal God... lol. Put down the Richard Dawkins literature man.

 

[MuzztheEagle]

Ask away in terms of my faith. I’ll answer anything you like, but I have stated this clearly already. How do you think the universe came into being? How do you explain the symbiotic relationships forming that are required for life to exist? Maniacal God... lol. Put down the Richard Dawkins literature man.

We've had this conversation already!
I don't know where the universe came from. I can't explain the foundations of (although there are many around who can without the need for fairytales). You seem to think that is better to have an answer than to accept that you don't/can't know something. And this is the main cause and fault of religion. It's how it preys on an exploits people's insecurity.
If I suggested to you that I believe that the Broncos will win this year's premiership, would you believe me? Would you stake all your savings on a 50:1 at sportsbet? Or would you ask why and decide if it was credible or not? If I instead said that I didn't know who would win, would I be less knowledgeable or more honest? Questions of god and religion are so much bigger than the NRL. You don't even know if there is a competition or what the rules yet you believe that you know the answers and commit your life to it?
People live their entire lives based on the teachings of one of the many available religious without ever questioning it. Why, we don't apply that idea of thinking to any other part of our lives and those that do are seen as either foolish or vulnerable.
As for your god being a maniac, I don't need Dawkins, it's all in the bible and I'm happy to point to it if you want to discuss.

 

[Kevinward777]

We've had this conversation already!
I don't know where the universe came from. I can't explain the foundations of (although there are many around who can without the need for fairytales). You seem to think that is better to have an answer than to accept that you don't/can't know something. And this is the main cause and fault of religion. It's how it preys on an exploits people's insecurity.
If I suggested to you that I believe that the Broncos will win this year's premiership, would you believe me? Would you stake all your savings on a 50:1 at sportsbet? Or would you ask why and decide if it was credible or not? If I instead said that I didn't know who would win, would I be less knowledgeable or more honest? Questions of god and religion are so much bigger than the NRL. You don't even know if there is a competition or what the rules yet you believe that you know the answers and commit your life to it?
People live their entire lives based on the teachings of one of the many available religious without ever questioning it. Why, we don't apply that idea of thinking to any other part of our lives and those that do are seen as either foolish or vulnerable.
As for your god being a maniac, I don't need Dawkins, it's all in the bible and I'm happy to point to it if you want to discuss.

You can’t explain the foundations of where the universe came from, however there are many who can? Who are they? What is their explanation? And why the hell aren’t you all over the answers they have provided? After all, it would be such a mighty big nail in the coffin of those imbecilic fools who believe in a creator God.

I have looked into the theories of many of these brilliant men and there is one recurrent theme which continually popped up. It’s called mathematical impossibility. I can list about twenty of them later if you like (there’s many more) but I’ll list the main ones which science conveniently overlooks in getting us to the starting point of evolution. But be warned, you will either roll about on the floor laughing hysterically at the lunacy of it all, or like another friend of mine did, babble incoherently and then storm out of the house.

Fire away with some bible verses and I’ll attempt to answer them for you. I’m going for a run now, so this will be later tonight.

 

[manlyfan76]

Hey @Kevinward777
Why did gawd decide to make women have painful pregnancy and births forever?
Seems like a real kant act to me.

 

[MuzztheEagle]

You can’t explain the foundations of where the universe came from, however there are many who can? Who are they? What is their explanation? And why the hell aren’t you all over the answers they have provided? After all, it would be such a mighty big nail in the coffin of those imbecilic fools who believe in a creator God.

I have looked into the theories of many of these brilliant men and there is one recurrent theme which continually popped up. It’s called mathematical impossibility. I can list about twenty of them later if you like (there’s many more) but I’ll list the main ones which science conveniently overlooks in getting us to the starting point of evolution. But be warned, you will either roll about on the floor laughing hysterically at the lunacy of it all, or like another friend of mine did, babble incoherently and then storm out of the house.

Fire away with some bible verses and I’ll attempt to answer them for you. I’m going for a run now, so this will be later tonight.

Sorry, I think a line of my response might have been missed (phones aren't made for typing or the latest version of silvertails imo). What I meant to say was :
I can't explain the foundations of the symbiotic relationships forming that are required for life to exist but there are many who can, at least the some of the mechanics involved or proposed.

And as mentioned in a previous post and with a link that I shared, there are many experiments currently happening which are improving our understanding and showing that many theories are indeed plausible. But then, I'm not a chemist or a molecular biologist, so really my best answer here is the one I gave....I don't know!

But, once again, it really doesn't matter. How does not knowing something make your belief more correct? How can you claim to know the truth? How can you possibly know the mind of some great creator who (in your mind) created things that we can never hope to understand?
Please give me your mathematical improbability theory and I doubt I will do anything that you mentioned. Hell, if it was so good then why did you wait until now to bring it up? I'm willing to suggest before I hear it that it is a perfect example of the Texas Sharpshooter fallacy.

In regard to bible verses, how about you give me some more context about what you believe. Else, it's pretty easy to say that's not what Jesus thought or that is out of context (in regards to my own belief), or my favorite: that's not what a true Christian thinks.
So let's start with the old testament. Is it still relevant to the teachings of Jesus? Is it just a book of moral fairytales not meant to be taken literally or did it really happen? Did god flood the whole world and leave only Noah and his family or is this just some sort of morality story? If it's just a story, then did god need us to hear it? Why?

Also, please give me your prefered bible version so I can use the correct quotes for you

 

[MuzztheEagle]

Hey @Kevinward777
Why did gawd decide to make women have painful pregnancy and births forever?
Seems like a real kant act to me.

Ohh, Ohh, I know I know!!!!!!!!
Can I answer or was this one only for Kev?

 

[Kevinward777]

Hey @Kevinward777
Why did gawd decide to make women have painful pregnancy and births forever?
Seems like a real kant act to me.

Good evening @manlyfan76... hope you are well.
There is a lot of debate about the Hebrew word in question here. So I wouldn't want to be too dogmatic about this. The word that is often interpreted as pain or sorrow is used 16 times in many versions such as the King James Version of the Bible. It is usually translated to mean 'labour, toil, work' except when in relation to childbirth, it is translated to mean 'pain, sorrow, anguish or pang'.

This can change one's understanding of the text. For example, the use of 'toil' instead might not insinuate God is making childbirth painful. Maybe bringing children into this life and raising them up will all be difficult compared to what it was like in Eden. It is just another example of all parts of life being harder because of the original sin.

Hope that helps.

 

[Kevinward777]

Ohh, Ohh, I know I know!!!!!!!!
Can I answer or was this one only for Kev?

My response is above... cheers buddy.

 

[manlyfan76]

Good evening @manlyfan76... hope you are well.
There is a lot of debate about the Hebrew word in question here. So I wouldn't want to be too dogmatic about this. The word that is often interpreted as pain or sorrow is used 16 times in many versions such as the King James Version of the Bible. It is usually translated to mean 'labour, toil, work' except when in relation to childbirth, it is translated to mean 'pain, sorrow, anguish or pang'.

This can change one's understanding of the text. For example, the use of 'toil' instead might not insinuate God is making childbirth painful. Maybe bringing children into this life and raising them up will all be difficult compared to what it was like in Eden. It is just another example of all parts of life being harder because of the original sin.

Hope that helps.

Yes ive read that too.

So if ive got the beginning right god says if you eat from that tree you will die! (control factor or just being bosy?)
They eat the apple, they dont die but then god says " hey Eve now you have disobey me im going to make pregnancy and childbirth (specifically) painfull or toil or sorrow.
Why would he do or say any of that?

 

[Kevinward777]

Ohh, Ohh, I know I know!!!!!!!!
Can I answer or was this one only for Kev?

I’d love to know who these many people are who can

Sorry, I think a line of my response might have been missed (phones aren't made for typing or the latest version of silvertails imo). What I meant to say was :
I can't explain the foundations of the symbiotic relationships forming that are required for life to exist but there are many who can, at least the some of the mechanics involved or proposed.

And as mentioned in a previous post and with a link that I shared, there are many experiments currently happening which are improving our understanding and showing that many theories are indeed plausible. But then, I'm not a chemist or a molecular biologist, so really my best answer here is the one I gave....I don't know!

But, once again, it really doesn't matter. How does not knowing something make your belief more correct? How can you claim to know the truth? How can you possibly know the mind of some great creator who (in your mind) created things that we can never hope to understand?
Please give me your mathematical improbability theory and I doubt I will do anything that you mentioned. Hell, if it was so good then why did you wait until now to bring it up? I'm willing to suggest before I hear it that it is a perfect example of the Texas Sharpshooter fallacy.

In regard to bible verses, how about you give me some more context about what you believe. Else, it's pretty easy to say that's not what Jesus thought or that is out of context (in regards to my own belief), or my favorite: that's not what a true Christian thinks.
So let's start with the old testament. Is it still relevant to the teachings of Jesus? Is it just a book of moral fairytales not meant to be taken literally or did it really happen? Did god flood the whole world and leave only Noah and his family or is this just some sort of morality story? If it's just a story, then did god need us to hear it? Why?

Also, please give me your prefered bible version so I can use the correct quotes for you

Check out how many non bible believing cultures there are who have a flood myth intrinsically woven into the fabric of their history. It really is amazing. The most similar accounts are typically from middle eastern cultures, but surprisingly similar legends are found in South America and the Pacific Islands and elsewhere. None of these stories contains the beauty, clarity, and believable detail given in the Bible, but each is meaningful to their own culture.

Anthropologists will tell you that a myth is often the faded memory of a real event. Details may have been added, lost, or obscured in the telling and retelling, but the kernel of truth remains. When two separate cultures have the same "myth" in their body of folklore, their ancestors must have either experienced the same event, or they both descended from a common ancestral source which itself experienced the event.
The only credible way to understand the widespread, similar flood legends is to recognize that all people living today, even though separated geographically, linguistically, and culturally, have descended from the few real people who survived a real global flood, on a real boat which eventually landed on a real mountain. Their descendants now fill the globe, never to forget the real event.

But, of course, this is not the view of most modern scholars. They prefer to believe that something in our commonly evolved psyche forces each culture to invent the same imaginary flood legend with no basis in real history. Instead of scholarship, this is "willful ignorance" of the fact that "the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished" (II Peter 3:5,6).

I don’t know the mind of God... no idea where you have arrived at such an illogical assumption. Are you making it up?
8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts

 

[Kevinward777]

Yes ive read that too.

So if ive got the beginning right god says if you eat from that tree you will die! (control factor or just being bosy?)
They eat the apple, they dont die but then god says " hey Eve now you have disobey me im going to make pregnancy and childbirth (specifically) painfull or toil or sorrow.
Why would he do or say any of that?

If a fly annoys you... would you swat it?

 

[manlyfan76]

If a fly annoys you... would you swat it?

Is that a psalm? Dont know that story, im only upto the old testament.

 

[MuzztheEagle]

I’d love to know who these many people are who can


Check out how many non bible believing cultures there are who have a flood myth intrinsically woven into the fabric of their history. It really is amazing. The most similar accounts are typically from middle eastern cultures, but surprisingly similar legends are found in South America and the Pacific Islands and elsewhere. None of these stories contains the beauty, clarity, and believable detail given in the Bible, but each is meaningful to their own culture.

Anthropologists will tell you that a myth is often the faded memory of a real event. Details may have been added, lost, or obscured in the telling and retelling, but the kernel of truth remains. When two separate cultures have the same "myth" in their body of folklore, their ancestors must have either experienced the same event, or they both descended from a common ancestral source which itself experienced the event.
The only credible way to understand the widespread, similar flood legends is to recognize that all people living today, even though separated geographically, linguistically, and culturally, have descended from the few real people who survived a real global flood, on a real boat which eventually landed on a real mountain. Their descendants now fill the globe, never to forget the real event.

But, of course, this is not the view of most modern scholars. They prefer to believe that something in our commonly evolved psyche forces each culture to invent the same imaginary flood legend with no basis in real history. Instead of scholarship, this is "willful ignorance" of the fact that "the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished" (II Peter 3:5,6).

I don’t know the mind of God... no idea where you have arrived at such an illogical assumption. Are you making it up?
8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts

So you believe that the old testament is a historical account? And that this is what Jesus came to preach?
Do you believe the world is around 6000 years old and the flood actually wiped out almost all of humanity? I'm mainly trying to get an idea of what you believe as I feel like I'm flying blind here. Straight answers would be great.