omnipotent beings discussion

Kevinward777 said:
I’d love to know who these many people are who can


Check out how many non bible believing cultures there are who have a flood myth intrinsically woven into the fabric of their history. It really is amazing. The most similar accounts are typically from middle eastern cultures, but surprisingly similar legends are found in South America and the Pacific Islands and elsewhere. None of these stories contains the beauty, clarity, and believable detail given in the Bible, but each is meaningful to their own culture.

Anthropologists will tell you that a myth is often the faded memory of a real event. Details may have been added, lost, or obscured in the telling and retelling, but the kernel of truth remains. When two separate cultures have the same "myth" in their body of folklore, their ancestors must have either experienced the same event, or they both descended from a common ancestral source which itself experienced the event.
The only credible way to understand the widespread, similar flood legends is to recognize that all people living today, even though separated geographically, linguistically, and culturally, have descended from the few real people who survived a real global flood, on a real boat which eventually landed on a real mountain. Their descendants now fill the globe, never to forget the real event.

But, of course, this is not the view of most modern scholars. They prefer to believe that something in our commonly evolved psyche forces each culture to invent the same imaginary flood legend with no basis in real history. Instead of scholarship, this is "willful ignorance" of the fact that "the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished" (II Peter 3:5,6).

I don’t know the mind of God... no idea where you have arrived at such an illogical assumption. Are you making it up?
8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts
Click to expand...

There are a few arc stories. All the same story

www.icr.org

The Flood of Noah and the Flood of Gilgamesh

Background The Epic of Gilgamesh has been of interest to Christians ever since its discovery in the mid-nineteenth century in the ruins of the great library at Nineveh, with its account of a universal flood with significant parallels to the Flood of Noah's day.1, 2 The rest of the Epic, which...
www.icr.org www.icr.org
 
@manlyfan76 and @MuzztheEagle I invite you to please change my thinking on the below points so that I might discard my imaginary God.
1-The complexity of our planet clearly points to a deliberate DESIGNER who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.
2-The universe had a start-what caused it?
3-The universe CLEARLY operated by uniform laws of nature-why does it?
4-Complex DNA code informs, programs every single cell’s behaviour- how is this so?
Can’t wait...
 
Kevinward777 said:
@manlyfan76 and @MuzztheEagle I invite you to please change my thinking on the below points so that I might discard my imaginary God.
1-The complexity of our planet clearly points to a deliberate DESIGNER who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.
2-The universe had a start-what caused it?
3-The universe CLEARLY operated by uniform laws of nature-why does it?
4-Complex DNA code informs, programs every single cell’s behaviour- how is this so?
Can’t wait...
Click to expand...
You seem to be backpedaling 🙂
I thought you were going to tell me your beliefs. Why the cold feet?
How does not knowing any of the above lead you to whatever it is you believe?
 
MuzztheEagle said:
You seem to be backpedaling 🙂
I thought you were going to tell me your beliefs. Why the cold feet?
How does not knowing any of the above lead you to whatever it is you believe?
Click to expand...
Because you have to believe something mate... ok you don’t believe in God. Sweet... no problem. You believe there are other people who can explain the origin of the universe, but don’t know how to explain their findings. Mmmm okay...so you are taking it on faith that they are REALLY smart and are telling the rest of us dummies the truth. Then you revert to the safe practice of sticking your head in the sand. Perhaps evolution has some credibility after all... do you have a really long neck by any chance?

You expect clear concise answers to every single one of your enquires, but revert to Ostrich mode when I ask something of you. Come on man, you’re a science guy... what is your take on the intricate coding contained within DNA? Did it just happen by chance?

Also, what are your thoughts on the Dykes on bikes dressing as nuns? Is it inflammatory and disrespectful? (I couldn’t give a rats what they do myself, and personally think the Catholic Church is one of the most corrupt establishments on earth) I just find it hilarious that the word tolerance, respect etc gets bandied about by their community but they don’t seem to have to conduct themselves in kind.
 
Kevinward777 said:
@manlyfan76 and @MuzztheEagle I invite you to please change my thinking on the below points so that I might discard my imaginary God.
1-The complexity of our planet clearly points to a deliberate DESIGNER who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.
2-The universe had a start-what caused it?
3-The universe CLEARLY operated by uniform laws of nature-why does it?
4-Complex DNA code informs, programs every single cell’s behaviour- how is this so?
Can’t wait...
Click to expand...
Thanks KW,
Not really my area of expertise but ill take a stab. ( id much rather discuss the bible as im re-reading it currently)
1- you claim its complex, i claim it to be quite simple. Why would a designer create something to be complex? Why go to all the un-nessacary trouble of creating a massive universe, or unlimited univeres and only let people (made in your image) be able to survive in such a minuscule portion of it?
2- if you can prove that time exists then maybe it had to have a start and an end. Just because you can think within the context of start and end does not make things have an end. When you die your physical body will be transformed into ash and smoke or rot in the earth, passing from one thing to another. Pin point the start of your life for me. Many different opinions on when your life started conception, birth, 1st breath, brain development and on and on, maybe you dont have a beginning, you just part of something bigger.
3- again, from your point of view, from what you imagine there are clear laws. Maybe you only know what you can pick up with your senses, -sidenote- can the universe be complex and have clear uniform laws?
4- as observed by scientist looking for it. Im not that up on DNA but from what i understand about the vastness of space something that occurs on one tiny planet could be down to nothing more than random chance.
 
manlyfan76 said:
Yes ive read that too.

So if ive got the beginning right god says if you eat from that tree you will die! (control factor or just being bosy?)
They eat the apple, they dont die but then god says " hey Eve now you have disobey me im going to make pregnancy and childbirth (specifically) painfull or toil or sorrow.
Why would he do or say any of that?
Click to expand...
@Kevinward777
I look forward to reading your explantion tomorrow.
 
manlyfan76 said:
Thanks KW,
Not really my area of expertise but ill take a stab. ( id much rather discuss the bible as im re-reading it currently)
1- you claim its complex, i claim it to be quite simple. Why would a designer create something to be complex? Why go to all the un-nessacary trouble of creating a massive universe, or unlimited univeres and only let people (made in your image) be able to survive in such a minuscule portion of it?
2- if you can prove that time exists then maybe it had to have a start and an end. Just because you can think within the context of start and end does not make things have an end. When you die your physical body will be transformed into ash and smoke or rot in the earth, passing from one thing to another. Pin point the start of your life for me. Many different opinions on when your life started conception, birth, 1st breath, brain development and on and on, maybe you dont have a beginning, you just part of something bigger.
3- again, from your point of view, from what you imagine there are clear laws. Maybe you only know what you can pick up with your senses, -sidenote- can the universe be complex and have clear uniform laws?
4- as observed by scientist looking for it. Im not that up on DNA but from what i understand about the vastness of space something that occurs on one tiny planet could be down to nothing more than random chance.
Click to expand...
Random chance? Cool.
 
Kevinward777 said:
Pretty self explanatory mate... Design points to a designer?
Click to expand...
But you don't just believe in a designer. You believe in the Christian god. But you're unwilling to state exactly what it is you believe. I've offered you my beliefs on God, why can't you express yours? Whenever we get close to this answer, that you promised, do you deflect questions and change the topic back to science? Do you think they need to be protected? Why?

Go back to my previous post. I don't "have to believe something mate". I'm happy to admit when I don't know something - to do otherwise is just dishonest. 2000 years ago many people believed that disease was caused by curses, demons and sin. What sort of a world would we live in if all people continued to believe that and didn't look for an answer (when they were honest and admitted that they didn't know).
 
There is only one truth ...

One team is dedicated to finding it through science and observation ... adding a new piece to the puzzle every year ...

Another team say they already know the truth ... because a bunch of guys living in the middle east explained it in a book 2000 years ago ... no need to listen to anything new ....

So ... no brainer which team I support ....
 
Woodsie said:
There is only one truth ...

One team is dedicated to finding it through science and observation ... adding a new piece to the puzzle every year ...

Another team say they already know the truth ... because a bunch of guys living in the middle east explained it in a book 2000 years ago ... no need to listen to anything new ....

So ... no brainer which team I support ....
Click to expand...
I don't think all the Muslims, Hindus, Pastafarians etc. would play very well together if you lumped them all into a single team 😉
 
Dear @Kevinward777 .... At the end of the last ice age .... land bridges from Europe to Britain and from Alaska to Russian .. (and certainly low levels of the Arabian Gulf and the middle east) ... were inandated and flooded ...

That a major ... or many floods occurred is not even remotely contested by anyone ....

To claim they were caused by a revengeful all powerful , omnipotent diety .... is ... let say a convenient tall tale to impress and scare the simple minded amongst us ....
 
Kevinward777 said:
I will pose seven questions to you that completely disprove your random chance theory. You are literally hanging your hat on winning powerball everyday for the next year, but whatever mate. I’ll dig them up for you.
Click to expand...

If old mate Muzz did have a ticket in the lottery with a one in a billion chance of winning ....

What is certain ... is that there is a 100% certainty that somebody will win it ...

Understanding big numbers is difficult for some people ....
 
Woodsie said:
Dear @Kevinward777 .... At the end of the last ice age .... land bridges from Europe to Britain and from Alaska to Russian .. (and certainly low levels of the Arabian Gulf and the middle east) ... were inandated and flooded ...

That a major ... or many floods occurred is not even remotely contested by anyone ....

To claim they were caused by a revengeful all powerful , omnipotent diety .... is ... let say a convenient tall tale to impress and scare the simple minded amongst us ....
Click to expand...
Goes back to my maniac point doesn't it. If you choose to believe in the story of the flood, then what sort of god are you choosing to believe in? One that throws the pieces of the board when he is losing? Killing almost everyone on the planet and then sending them to eternal damnation in hell - even when most had never heard of him. Isn't he omnipotent and all knowing? Didn't he see that coming? Couldn't he have maybe made it a little clearer that he did exist and that his rules were important? Nah!
"I love them, but they don't love me back" says God "So I will punish them for all eternity!"
Sounds like an abusive relationship to me.
Oh, but Jesus saved us from all that (say's the true christian!). Saved us from who? Himself? His father? This just sounds like more abuse. "I know he's a bad guy, but I've saved you...that won't happen again". WTF? God is meant to be omnipotent. Why did he ever do it in the first place?
 
Woodsie said:
If old mate Muzz did have a ticket in the lottery with a one in a billion chance of winning ....

What is certain ... is that there is a 100% certainty that somebody will win it ...

Understanding big numbers is difficult for some people ....
Click to expand...
Woodsie, I KNOW what the winning numbers are for a draw at some point in the future. I will give you the numbers if you want....all you need to do is repeat what I tell you from today until you die 😉
 
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