omnipotent beings discussion

[Kevinward777]

So (putting your own beliefs aside for the minute), do you think that there is reason for concern over the fact that Manase attends the Mormon church? Do you think he is at risk of exploitation and/or dangerous ideas through that organisation and others who associate themselves with that organisation?
If there are organisations out there who are using the concept Jesus to exploit and discriminate against others are they not as guilty as I am in potentially damaging the ideas of religion?

Anything which exploits a person is damaging, be it religion, people, prejudiced beliefs, government, corporations, etc the list goes on and on.

Look around mate, this world is a broken place... there’s millions dying each year of starvation, while the US alone throws out enough food to feed them three times over. Children and women are being sold into sex slavery. Two media corporations basically control the entirety of the global news. Millions die in wars fought over oil and natural resources, the jails are overflowing, respect for others is a thing of the past, waterways are being polluted, and people walk around like zombies with their heads stuck in their smart phone.

Whatever Manase believes is ultimately up to him...

 

[MuzztheEagle]

Anything which exploits a person is damaging, be it religion, people, prejudiced beliefs, government, corporations, etc the list goes on and on.

It still feels like you are dodging the question. Do you think that the Mormon church does damage to individuals and does it go against what you believe to be the teachings of Jesus
or is it justified in its teachings and requirements?

 

[Kevinward777]

No, at least not right now. I'm not interested in returning to a debate on the evidence of the existence of a God. It's unproductive.
I'm interested in your views on the Mormon church - refer to my previous post

Okay, but perhaps you should take a peek at it, as it only goes for a few minutes, and as a scientist it might be advantageous to know what you are leaning on in terms of life appearing from a protein cell. Mathematical impossibility upon mathematical impossibility to the power of impossibility. It may be something which you are interested in, not to prove God as such, but it exposes what is widely accepted by most (as fact) to be completely ludicrous.

 

[MuzztheEagle]

Okay, but perhaps you should take a peek at it, as it only goes for a few minutes, and as a scientist it might be advantageous to know what you are leaning on in terms of life appearing from a protein cell. Mathematical impossibility upon mathematical impossibility to the power of impossibility. It may be something which you are interested in, not to prove God as such, but it exposes what is widely accepted by most (as fact) to be completely ludicrous.

I would rather discuss organised religion than the concept of God. We have had discussions/arguments over God before and it has gone nowhere. I think we both have common ground when it comes to the subject of religion and think we can probably learn something from each other by discussing this as an alternative.
Mormon church?

 

[MuzztheEagle]

Okay, but perhaps you should take a peek at it, as it only goes for a few minutes, and as a scientist it might be advantageous to know what you are leaning on in terms of life appearing from a protein cell. Mathematical impossibility upon mathematical impossibility to the power of impossibility. It may be something which you are interested in, not to prove God as such, but it exposes what is widely accepted by most (as fact) to be completely ludicrous.

Ok, if you think it's required for the discussion then sure.
I have a few arguments with the items raised but overall it raises some bigger questions.
How does any of this connect with man's concept of God? At least one that we can understand or attempt to understand the motives of any such entity?
How do you draw a line between this concept (to which I would reply: "I don't know and I couldn't possibly begin to comprehend") to your own beliefs that are far more specific?

 

[Kevinward777]

It still feels like you are dodging the question. Do you think that the Mormon church does damage to individuals and does it go against what you believe to be the teachings of Jesus
or is it justified in its teachings and requirements?

It doesn’t really rate as a critical issue in my life mate. Mormons make up less than 0.004 percent of the entire population of earth. Do I support Mormonism? No, there are way more important issues than a small sect who have less than 15 million practicing members on the earth to get fired up about IMO. Am I going to laugh at them or abuse them because of their teaching? No I’m not. There has been much more damage done to women, children, men and families through corrupt governments and corporate greed. That fires me up a lot more.

 

[MuzztheEagle]

It doesn’t really rate as a critical issue in my life mate. Mormons make up less than 0.004 percent of the entire population of earth. Do I support Mormonism? No, there are way more important issues than a small sect who have less than 15 million practicing members on the earth to get fired up about IMO. Am I going to laugh at them or abuse them because of their teaching? No I’m not. There has been much more damage done to women, children, men and families through corrupt governments and corporate greed. That fires me up a lot more.

I brought up the issue because it is relative to Fainu's case, especially as someone questioned whether he should have been at the church. Maybe this is a relevant point and it is worth discussing, maybe the church isn't doing all the good it claims to. Maybe there a organisation which would do more good to be affiliated to, especially one which wasn't associated with some of the ideals the the Mormon church holds up to be true.
Anyway, happy to move on. See my previous post.

 

[Kevinward777]

Ok, if you think it's required for the discussion then sure.
I have a few arguments with the items raised but overall it raises some bigger questions.
How does any of this connect with man's concept of God? At least one that we can understand or attempt to understand the motives of any such entity?
How do you draw a line between this concept (to which I would reply: "I don't know and I couldn't possibly begin to comprehend") to your own beliefs that are far more specific?

I believe in a creator as opposed to a mathematical impossibility that we somehow just came into being. There have been several occurrences within my life which support my belief. I should be dead ten times over, and I don’t make such a claim lightly. This fact alone was enough to cause my parents (both of whom are successful business people of sound mind who didn’t believe in a God) to consider the possibility of God’s existence. One will do that when somebody is standing in front of you who you know beyond a doubt should already be in the ground. My dear parents travel the world all the time, and recently decided to go to Jerusalem. It changed their lives forever, and they have never been more at peace in their lives.

So whether or not you believe, or say it can’t be proven has no effect upon my own faith. As I have stated on multiple occasions in this thread, there is a strong experiential element to faith that can only be explained by the experience itself.

People say, “Well if God is real, tell him to reveal himself then I’ll believe.” But the religious leaders said that when Jesus was dangling on a cross. It’s only when people realise that they are need of salvation whereby God will make himself known in their lives. Hope that helps.

 

[MuzztheEagle]

I believe in a creator as opposed to a mathematical impossibility that we somehow just came into being. There have been several occurrences within my life which support my belief. I should be dead ten times over, and I don’t make such a claim lightly. This fact alone was enough to cause my parents (both of whom are successful business people of sound mind who didn’t believe in a God) to consider the possibility of God’s existence. One will do that when somebody is standing in front of you who you know beyond a doubt should already be in the ground. My dear parents travel the world all the time, and recently decided to go to Jerusalem. It changed their lives forever, and they have never been more at peace in their lives.

So whether or not you believe, or say it can’t be proven has no effect upon my own faith. As I have stated on multiple occasions in this thread, there is a strong experiential element to faith that can only be explained by the experience itself.

People say, “Well if God is real, tell him to reveal himself then I’ll believe.” But the religious leaders said that when Jesus was dangling on a cross. It’s only when people realise that they are need of salvation whereby God will make himself known in their lives. Hope that helps.

Ok, so correct me if this is off; You start out with a general feeling that there is something bigger than you in this world and this then leads you to a more specific belief system.
So what did that step look like for you? How did you come to choose a Christian/Abahamic religion?

 

[Kevinward777]

I brought up the issue because it is relative to Fainu's case, especially as someone questioned whether he should have been at the church. Maybe this is a relevant point and it is worth discussing, maybe the church isn't doing all the good it claims to. Maybe there a organisation which would do more good to be affiliated to, especially one which wasn't associated with some of the ideals the the Mormon church holds up to be true.
Anyway, happy to move on. See my previous post.

Sorry mate... I just think that a kid can get into trouble anywhere these days... and even though I don’t support the Mormon church, the same thing could happen at a pub/club etc... and they do have a right to go out. I also appreciate your passion for people as a whole man... and can understand why the organised church turns your stomach on various issues.

 

[Bring back the.... Biff?]

It still feels like you are dodging the question. Do you think that the Mormon church does damage to individuals and does it go against what you believe to be the teachings of Jesus
or is it justified in its teachings and requirements?

Mormonism is a cult muzzthefleagle

 

[MuzztheEagle]

Mormonism is a cult muzzthefleagle

So do you think it would be a good thing if Manase left that particular church?

 

[Bring back the.... Biff?]

Whatever does it for you Biff... But Jesus never called out the bigots brother, he only ever called out the religious hypocrites and the Pharisees. He also preached that anyone who tried to follow him would be laughed at, scorned, mocked and hated... and that our calling is not to judge anyone but ourselves. Admittedly, we sometimes get it right, while other days... not so much.

I understand how some of the disrespectful comments might get under your skin, and it’s hard not to respond to hatred with hatred, and to scorn with scorn, but if you truly know him as your Lord and Saviour... then rejoice.

Blah blah blah good luck to these bigots im sick of it i come here to talk about manly and bam there it is and its increasing unfortunately.... Don't bother with that muzzthefleagle he is nobody just trolling. The dark side is strong with that one

 

[MuzztheEagle]

Blah blah blah good luck to these bigots im sick of it i come here to talk about manly and bam there it is and its increasing unfortunately.... Don't bother with that muzzthefleagle he is nobody just trolling. The dark side is strong with that one

Happy to have an honest and thoughtful discussion with you 🙂
If you want to shout insults and attempt to troll me then we can do that to 😉

 

[Woodsie]

Don’t worry he’s only referring to me!

Nah .... I think I might get a jersey as well .....

However, I might change sides .... it must be very reassuring to simply adopt the moral high ground in any discussion .... or simply dismiss 2000 years of historical atrocities by the church as .... every organisation has some bad apples ......

 

[Woodsie]

Look around mate, this world is a broken place... there’s millions dying each year of starvation, while the US alone throws out enough food to feed them three times over. Children and women are being sold into sex slavery. Two media corporations basically control the entirety of the global news. Millions die in wars fought over oil and natural resources, the jails are overflowing, respect for others is a thing of the past, waterways are being polluted, and people walk around like zombies with their heads stuck in their smart phone.

From that depressing summation of the state of the world .... can I conclude that you believe that after 2000 years of Jesus's mission on Earth .... it has been a total and resounding failure ..??

Perhaps it is time for God to call it a loss .... start over and have another shot ..... maybe find another married Virgin ... and go for Jesus Mark 11 .... the new and improved version .....

 

[manly al]

Guess that many people see the Light only through their own perspective and irrespective of the type of society they reside in . Problems seem inevitable when someone or groups think or believe that their light is brighter then others and should always take precedence .

 

[mozgrame]

This thread is too funny to let it become dormant. While drifting through the pages...it becomes very apparent that those attacking the bible have never read it. And some people attacking Christians can't differentiate between Christian denominational...non denominational...religious crackpots and religious extremists...so they lump them all together.
That's probably why there are so many untruths trotted out...and believed as undeniable facts. Things written by blokes like Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens are taken as well researched and thoroughly correct. Sprinkle in some memes from Ricky Gervais (Interesting side note...I read in Psychology Today a while back that there seems to be a flaw in peoples thinking...or ability to think for themselves when it comes to celebrities. It's almost to the stage of a cumulative mental disorder. Most people will follow the thoughts or musings of a celebrity rather than investigate the findings of researchers on pretty much any given subject. Intellectual laziness bordering on lunacy??) and you have your answer in a neat little parcel. Or do you?

So...I thought I might address some issues and bring to your attention some things you've probably read on here and taken to be true and open your eyes to some things that may surprise you. Just because Christians don't often argue the point...that doesn't mean they concede. That is what makes them easy targets for atheists and aggressive agnostics (a term given to people that don't have the balls to take the step into atheism...they are generally disliked by atheists for their unwillingness to "fall in line" with them.

Alrighty...let's get the ball rolling!

Religion has historically been the number one cause of tremendous bloodshed and needless loss of life through wars, inquisitions and crusades. Religion should be abolished on these grounds alone. True or false? Well...why don't we look for ourselves? Come on!

First up...The Spanish Inquisition.

Millions died in this inquisition, right? What do you know about this nightmarish period in history where millions died? If you look...you may be very surprised!

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the water...

 

[mozgrame]

Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the water...

Hahaha! I thought you were looking for me?

Just when you thought people might want to pull their heads out of the sand...

Would you agree that you can't truly understand the SI if you don't understand the significance of the 771 year struggle for the Spanish peninsula between the Muslims and the Christians?