omnipotent beings discussion

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God doesn't obey the laws of physics.
I agree, because he doesn't exist.
However rather than go in circles, the task you were requested to perform was simply to describe your understanding of how He (or any spirit 'soul' or non-physical entity) can interact with the physical world without destroying basic causality? It's not a trick question!
 
Actually...something that has bothered me for a while...when Stephen Hawking announced that... "We have finally found something that doesn’t have a cause, because there was no time for a cause to exist in. For me this means that there is no possibility of a creator, because there is no time for a creator to have existed in".

So, if as Hawking says there was no time before the universe came into existence, wouldn't that mean there was no time or space for anything to have undergone a quantum fluctuation in, then there would have been no big bang, based on that cause.
 
You'll have to excuse me for not having read Hawking (or the bible for that matter) but isn't this more of a problem for creationists?
You are the ones postulating a time before creation!
 
I agree, because he doesn't exist.
However rather than go in circles, the task you were requested to perform was simply to describe your understanding of how He (or any spirit 'soul' or non-physical entity) can interact with the physical world without destroying basic causality? It's not a trick question!

God interacts with the world through the hearts of Godly people. Like the fireman that ran into the twin towers to save lives and lost their own...or do you think they were just thinking of their pay cheques?

God works through the hearts of people that go out of their way to help and comfort others...for no reward.
 
Please. So brave firemen are all Christian?
Sounds to me like your answer is paraphrasing 'God works in mysterious ways'
Which is fine, although I don't buy it, personally.
 
You'll have to excuse me for not having read Hawking (or the bible for that matter) but isn't this more of a problem for creationists?
You are the ones postulating a time before creation!

Oh...I'm a creationist now...on your say so. If I tell you why Jai Arrow left the Titans (the inside story) I'd have to be a titans fan...using your logic.
 
Lol what? OK I assumed you were a creationist, sorry.
Not sure about Jai Arrow but I have grave doubts about the existence of Sam Burgess's 'new' injury
 
Please. So brave firemen are all Christian?
Sounds to me like your answer is paraphrasing 'God works in mysterious ways'
Which is fine, although I don't buy it, personally.

But it's fine to hide behind...I haven't read the bible...or Hawking for that matter...but I'm certain I'm correct.

That's fine as well, but I'm not overly impressed with your chosen method.
 
OK I'll have to wrap this up in the next 15 or so, the year has begun and I'm already behind schedule.
Sorry for insulting your argument style, you provide some interesting tidbits at times.
Although I don't accept it is 'hiding' to say I haven't read that stuff. If it's that complex that we all have to read 1000s of pages then just own up that your argument comes down to 'you wouldn't understand, but take my word for it'
Unfortunately my old ma always taught me, 'never just accept whatever they tell you', and I've tended to be stuck with that scepticism.
 
OK I'll have to wrap this up in the next 15 or so, the year has begun and I'm already behind schedule.
Sorry for insulting your argument style, you provide some interesting tidbits at times.
Although I don't accept it is 'hiding' to say I haven't read that stuff. If it's that complex that we all have to read 1000s of pages then just own up that your argument comes down to 'you wouldn't understand, but take my word for it'
Unfortunately my old ma always taught me, 'never just accept whatever they tell you', and I've tended to be stuck with that scepticism.

That's what I was saying earlier about how many, many Christians don't simply believe, because the bible says so...they use various research methods before they commit.

Your Mum was a very wise woman!

I'm going to grab beer and jump in the pool...I've got a heap of prawns to get through later...I need to relax a bit.

Just like Jesus would do! LOL!
 
All I asked for was one simple miracle (and I don't count Scomo)
Not to worry, enjoy the pool beer and prawns
 
You are a proud atheist aren't you? You claim to be...you certainly detest religion and put the boot in regularly. I'm trying to figure out which kind of atheist you are. Are you the Sam Harris type? I hope not.

Guilty! My methods of inquiry were definitely underhanded lol.

So...to which branch of atheism do you belong and what happens to a person who can't back up their beliefs with enough evidence for your satisfaction? Do you write them off as ignorant...or simply dismiss them with disdain...like you did with Bozo?
I'm not sure I would describe myself as a "proud" atheist. I think to claim that would imply that I hold a superiority over those who hold a religious belief and I understand that there are reasons people both look to and become involved in religion and that these reasons are human traits that I to share and am susceptible to. It also implies that I believe something, when it is the opposite. One thing I am proud of is my willingness to admit when I don't know something and I wish more of us would be proud to do the same.

I'm also not sure what types of atheists there are. Is there a list I get to choose from? :p

As an atheist: I do not believe there is significant evidence to support the claim/s of god/s so I choose not to believe in one. For me, non belief is the default state and to change would require significant evidence.
I do not dispute the possibility that there could be a god (or many gods / creators, architects etc) as I cannot disprove anything that I cannot observe, test or research. If there was some creator which created the universe and set some grand plan into action but then did not intervene (in any way we can see) then sure I will accept this as a possibility. But I refer back to my earlier point - I don't know if that's the case and why should anyone else think differently to that?
I am willing to claim that some religions are built on lies (Mormons, Johos, Scientology) as there is plenty of evidence on their history.
There are plenty of flaws in the bible that I would dispute but I don't think there is enough evidence to disprove the overall concept of an abrahamic god (this doesn't make it true). But I would argue that if this god does exist; that they are one nasty piece of work that cares more about people doing what they are told and praying to him than their well being. They also think it's okay to spread their message and proof of their existence to only a select few of the people of earth. If I do end up meeting this god at some pearly gate he will need to do a lot of explaining for ME to want to enter.

I don't really mind what someone believes. I would consider it to be the same as my analogy involving Whisky. But when someone decides that others must share this truth or they use their beliefs to create real world consequences then I have a very big problem. It is this practice that I want to see stamped out. Imagine I started a campaign which prevented the sale of anything labeled as whiskEy or shamed the drinkers of Irish whiskey for not embracing the true whisky or did anything which reduced the availability and sale of whiskey. Would you stand up against this?
 
You might find the above article an interesting read Muzz... I have many others which are even more extensive about science and it’s role in producing, designing and enhancing weapons of mass destruction and death. Great read.
FYI, science does not have a mind of it's own - it doesn't have a mind, or intent and as I have stated numerous times it is not an alternative to God.
Science does not create weapons, nor does it create cures to diseases. People do, using science! If you believe that science is some evil force, then you should stop using the positive things which it helped create; medicine, sanitation, the internet and so on.
 
FYI, science does not have a mind of it's own - it doesn't have a mind, or intent and as I have stated numerous times it is not an alternative to God.
Science does not create weapons, nor does it create cures to diseases. People do, using science! If you believe that science is some evil force, then you should stop using the positive things which it helped create; medicine, sanitation, the internet and so on.
I actually love science... not all us religious types are the same. Much like scientists I’d imagine.
 
I actually love science... not all us religious types are the same. Much like scientists I’d imagine.
I'm unsure of your original point then. Why are you concerned (and think I should be the same) that science is helping people make weapons?
Obviously I'm concerned that people are making weapons to blow each other to kingdom come....but why is the science part relevant?

Edit: I would probably be concerned if people were using interpretive dance to make weapons....but not because I was worried about the weapons.
 
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