omnipotent beings discussion

[Chip and Chase]

What do all the Izzy apologists think about his cousin getting flicked from his job because of his religious intolerance ?? Not much hand wringing and mock indignation going on about that is there ??

 

[Kevinward777]

Why do religious believers get stuck on the old there must be a god because what was before the big bang? You can't create something out of nothing arguments to justify the existence of a god?

To me it is a very flawed way to think.
If you say that god had to exist before the big bang because you can't create something out of nothing, than what god created your god, then what god created the god that created your god and so on forever.
This is the thread that keeps on giving.

Why does creation need an external element?

Well it seems a lot more plausible than believing we evolved from inter galactic soup... or survival of the fittest and all that jazz. We supposedly came from monkeys, but a whole heap of them just decided to stay as apes... which is somewhat understandable after all, because a tail would come in super farking handy at times. But no, all we have is a “cough cough” tail bone.

How do you explain all of the symbiotic relationships which are an absolute necessity for the existence of life. Did we develop from micro organisms at the same rate as the trees? When considering the fact we need the oxygen they produce and plants depend upon the carbon dioxide we breathe out. Don’t even get me started on the chicken and the egg. Then there’s the scientific proof that the coded DNA of each species defies many of the theories put forward by Darwinism, and the embryo charts which all appeared so similar during biology class at high school were compiled by a complete fraud.

Do you ever question how NASA can possibly see anything that they claim is “only” twenty light years away (considering that light is meant to travel at 300 000km per second) but can’t provide any pictures of the US flag on the moon because it’s really far away? They need to use one of the really big telescopes @MuzztheEagle had access to perhaps. The list just goes on and on and on.

Why is the temperature colder under the light of the moon than it is in the darkness? (You can test that one out yourself very easily... don’t you just love empirical evidence.) Because we are all taught that the moon receives its light from the sun, and the sun is extremely farking toasty, is it not?

Then there’s entropy @MuzztheEagle can fill you in on the finer details I’m sure, but basically, everything in the world is in a state of decline, there is absolutely no evidence of anything in the natural world improving over time. Science has spent inordinate sums of taxpayers cash for the past eighty odd years trying to evolve fruit flies without success.

Meanwhile, millions die every year due to starvation related illness. Oh, and it’s apparently cool to get rid of an inconvenient baby up to 30 weeks in some countries now as well. But don’t whatever you do, mention gays and the bible, that is considered an absolute abomination.

Science Fiction as they say. Or as the Chilli Peppers sing...“Space may be the final frontier but it’s made in a Hollywood basement.”

 

[manlyfan76]

Well it seems a lot more plausible than believing we evolved from inter galactic soup... or survival of the fittest and all that jazz. We supposedly came from monkeys, but a whole heap of them just decided to stay as apes... which is somewhat understandable after all, because a tail would come in super farking handy at times. But no, all we have is a “cough cough” tail bone.

How do you explain all of the symbiotic relationships which are an absolute necessity for the existence of life. Did we develop from micro organisms at the same rate as the trees? When considering the fact we need the oxygen they produce and plants depend upon the carbon dioxide we breathe out. Don’t even get me started on the chicken and the egg. Then there’s the scientific proof that the coded DNA of each species defies many of the theories put forward by Darwinism, and the embryo charts which all appeared so similar during biology class at high school were compiled by a complete fraud.

Do you ever question how NASA can possibly see anything that they claim is “only” twenty light years away (considering that light is meant to travel at 300 000km per second) but can’t provide any pictures of the US flag on the moon because it’s really far away? They need to use one of the really big telescopes @MuzztheEagle had access to perhaps. The list just goes on and on and on.

Why is the temperature colder under the light of the moon than it is in the darkness? (You can test that one out yourself very easily... don’t you just love empirical evidence.) Because we are all taught that the moon receives its light from the sun, and the sun is extremely farking toasty, is it not?

Then there’s entropy @MuzztheEagle can fill you in on the finer details I’m sure, but basically, everything in the world is in a state of decline, there is absolutely no evidence of anything in the natural world improving over time. Science has spent inordinate sums of taxpayers cash for the past eighty odd years trying to evolve fruit flies without success.

Meanwhile, millions die every year due to starvation related illness. Oh, and it’s apparently cool to get rid of an inconvenient baby up to 30 weeks in some countries now as well. But don’t whatever you do, mention gays and the bible, that is considered an absolute abomination.

Science Fiction as they say. Or as the Chilli Peppers sing...“Space may be the final frontier but it’s made in a Hollywood basement.”

So through all that are you saying you can or cannot create something out of nothing?

 

[MuzztheEagle]

Well it seems a lot more plausible than believing we evolved from inter galactic soup... or survival of the fittest and all that jazz. We supposedly came from monkeys, but a whole heap of them just decided to stay as apes... which is somewhat understandable after all, because a tail would come in super farking handy at times. But no, all we have is a “cough cough” tail bone.

How do you explain all of the symbiotic relationships which are an absolute necessity for the existence of life. Did we develop from micro organisms at the same rate as the trees? When considering the fact we need the oxygen they produce and plants depend upon the carbon dioxide we breathe out. Don’t even get me started on the chicken and the egg. Then there’s the scientific proof that the coded DNA of each species defies many of the theories put forward by Darwinism, and the embryo charts which all appeared so similar during biology class at high school were compiled by a complete fraud.

Do you ever question how NASA can possibly see anything that they claim is “only” twenty light years away (considering that light is meant to travel at 300 000km per second) but can’t provide any pictures of the US flag on the moon because it’s really far away? They need to use one of the really big telescopes @MuzztheEagle had access to perhaps. The list just goes on and on and on.

Why is the temperature colder under the light of the moon than it is in the darkness? (You can test that one out yourself very easily... don’t you just love empirical evidence.) Because we are all taught that the moon receives its light from the sun, and the sun is extremely farking toasty, is it not?

Then there’s entropy @MuzztheEagle can fill you in on the finer details I’m sure, but basically, everything in the world is in a state of decline, there is absolutely no evidence of anything in the natural world improving over time. Science has spent inordinate sums of taxpayers cash for the past eighty odd years trying to evolve fruit flies without success.

Meanwhile, millions die every year due to starvation related illness. Oh, and it’s apparently cool to get rid of an inconvenient baby up to 30 weeks in some countries now as well. But don’t whatever you do, mention gays and the bible, that is considered an absolute abomination.

Science Fiction as they say. Or as the Chilli Peppers sing...“Space may be the final frontier but it’s made in a Hollywood basement.”

Again, you demand the enth degree of evidence for ideas that do not fit your own beliefs or a simply to difficult for you to comprehend but you fail to apply one percent of that scepticism when it comes to your own beliefs. Again I will ask you: What makes your religion right and others wrong?
Science does not claim to be right (and all knowing), it aims to produce models and understanding based on the evidence available. If you truly believe that science is the great evil that you are preaching it to be then please - do away with all it has given you (clean water, sanitation, medicine, the internet, football on the TV etc, etc, etc) and then pray to god that you don't have to live the way the majority of people did 2000 years ago.
Also I am happy to answer many of the questions you raised - but first answer my question - why is your religion right and others wrong? You said you were happy to leave thing but here you are again attempting to destroy the monster that is science without any ability to justify your own beliefs.

 

[MuzztheEagle]

So through all that are you saying you can or cannot create something out of nothing?

@Kevinward777
Who created God?
And why did he/she/it/they create us and for what purpose?
And how were we ever meant to figure that out?
And how do we know which religion is the true religion?
And why did he put the bones of animals that never existed in the ground?

 

[manlyfan76]

@Kevinward777
Who created God?

And who created that who created god?

 

[MuzztheEagle]

And who created that who created god?

 

[Kevinward777]

[

Again, you demand the enth degree of evidence for ideas that do not fit your own beliefs or a simply to difficult for you to comprehend but you fail to apply one percent of that scepticism when it comes to your own beliefs. Again I will ask you: What makes your religion right and others wrong?
Science does not claim to be right (and all knowing), it aims to produce models and understanding based on the evidence available. If you truly believe that science is the great evil that you are preaching it to be then please - do away with all it has given you (clean water, sanitation, medicine, the internet, football on the TV etc, etc, etc) and then pray to god that you don't have to live the way the majority of people did 2000 years ago.
Also I am happy to answer many of the questions you raised - but first answer my question - why is your religion right and others wrong? You said you were happy to leave thing but here you are again attempting to destroy the monster that is science without any ability to justify your own beliefs.

Real science is wonderful... In fact, real science supports a creator God, because the design is all around us, in us, and above us. The probability of life (and the earth) just coming into existence by chance is the greatest mathematical impossibility of all time. Again, you can research this fact easily enough if you so wish, and being a guy who enjoys testable evidence, I don’t see any reason why you would not.

So, what you’re saying, is that if it can’t be proven that a creator existed before the world, then it is more plausible for one to believe we came into being by complete randomness. Whereby a process unfolded and a whole bunch of mathematical impossibilities occurred one on top of the other, until man in all his glory appeared.

Do you realise that the bible is the most historically accurate book in existence, and continues to be the first reference point for most historians around the world? Why would they choose to use such an inaccurate compilation of fairy tales?

And @MuzztheEagle... I am still waiting for you to even acknowledge the poverty and starvation that is so prevalent in many parts of the world today. Which is kinda strange from someone who claims to be so passionate about human rights.

 

[Woodsie]

**** it! ..... I am going demand my Uni fees back .... every Science book is obviously wrong!

But some random thoughts ... every molocule and atom in our bodise is found elsewhere throughout the Universe in quantities ... what has not yet been found is a similar set of climatic and atmospheric conditions to earth that would possibly initiate "life" .... but considering we have only explored one billion, billion billionth of the known Universe ... that is not surprising ..

.. as far as symbiotic relationships go .... if we had no Moon or tides .... then it would simply mean that those species in the tidal zone would have evolved differently ... life as we know it evolved to the conditions that were prevalent ... if we had different conditions then life would simply have different features to those we now recognise ....

Unlike what was first thought ... Evolution is not just a process of gradual change of a species ... but in fact mostly spurred by quantum leaps as the result of "mutations" ... those mutations that are less suited to their environment die off ... those that gain an advantage in either life or breeding status flourish ... and branch off .... and as far as Apes and tails go .... there are many species of primates with and without tails ... as man is different to Apes.. so are many other "apes" different to apes

Life is believed to have started in the water where there is an abundance of oxygen .... carbon dioxide is formed naturally by the earth and would also be in abundance ... both plants and biorganisms both which had developed before oxygen breathers left the oceans for land ...

The moon doesn't emit any heat ... it is simply reflected light ....

Any DNA or fossil gaps are well documented by science ... but are few and still being explored ...

I believe the light emitted by a star 20 light years away is slightly bigger than a flag ... but go figure ... and why someone would want to take a photo of it anyway is beyonf me ....

I believe JFK shot first .... . and I am starting to bore myself ..

 

[Woodsie]

@MuzztheEagle ... I was in Baton Rouge, Louisiana in the early 90's when a few of the local Ironstines were calling on school kids to bring their biology and science books to a book burning rally ... you think the middle east has some nutters ..... go for a beer in Alabama and sprout that science nonsense there ....

 

[Kevinward777]

**** it! ..... I am going demand my Uni fees back .... every Science book is obviously wrong!

But some random thoughts ... every molocule and atom in our bodise is found elsewhere throughout the Universe in quantities ... what has not yet been found is a similar set of climatic and atmospheric conditions to earth that would possibly initiate "life" .... but considering we have only explored one billion, billion billionth of the known Universe ... that is not surprising ..

.. as far as symbiotic relationships go .... if we had no Moon or tides .... then it would simply mean that those species in the tidal zone would have evolved differently ... life as we know it evolved to the conditions that were prevalent ... if we had different conditions then life would simply have different features to those we now recognise ....

Unlike what was first thought ... Evolution is not just a process of gradual change of a species ... but in fact mostly spurred by quantum leaps as the result of "mutations" ... those mutations that are less suited to their environment die off ... those that gain an advantage in either life or breeding status flourish ... and branch off .... and as far as Apes and tails go .... there are many species of primates with and without tails ... as man is different to Apes.. so are many other "apes" different to apes

Life is believed to have started in the water where there is an abundance of oxygen .... carbon dioxide is formed naturally by the earth and would also be in abundance ... both plants and biorganisms both which had developed before oxygen breathers left the oceans for land ...

The moon doesn't emit any heat ... it is simply reflected light ....

Any DNA or fossil gaps are well documented by science ... but are few and still being explored ...

I believe the light emitted by a star 20 light years away is slightly bigger than a flag ... but go figure ... and why someone would want to take a photo of it anyway is beyonf me ....

I believe JFK shot first .... . and I am starting to bore myself ..

No not every science book is wrong... but carry on.

 

[MuzztheEagle]

[

Real science is wonderful... In fact, real science supports a creator God, because the design is all around us, in us, and above us. The probability of life (and the earth) just coming into existence by chance is the greatest mathematical impossibility of all time. Again, you can research this fact easily enough if you so wish, and being a guy who enjoys testable evidence, I don’t see any reason why you would not.

So, what you’re saying, is that if it can’t be proven that a creator existed before the world, then it is more plausible for one to believe we came into being by complete randomness. Whereby a process unfolded and a whole bunch of mathematical impossibilities occurred one on top of the other, until man in all his glory appeared.

Do you realise that the bible is the most historically accurate book in existence, and continues to be the first reference point for most historians around the world? Why would they choose to use such an inaccurate compilation of fairy tales?

And @MuzztheEagle... I am still waiting for you to even acknowledge the poverty and starvation that is so prevalent in many parts of the world today. Which is kinda strange from someone who claims to be so passionate about human rights.

I fail to see what poverty and starvation has to do with science - but I would have thought that someone in your position would be using it as evidence (one of the hundreds of) that the Christian religion is the correct one. Is that your answer to the question I keep asking you?
If not, then I guess there is no point in praying for them?

 

[MuzztheEagle]

@MuzztheEagle ... I was in Baton Rouge, Louisiana in the early 90's when a few of the local Ironstines were calling on school kids to bring their biology and science books to a book burning rally ... you think the middle east has some nutters ..... go for a beer in Alabama and sprout that science nonsense there ....

I have
And it scares me more everyday that people in Australia want to believe (and push unto others) the nonsense spouted by movements founded by snake oil salesmen and worse.

 

[Kevinward777]

Christianity...

I have
And it scares me more everyday that people in Australia want to believe (and push unto others) the nonsense spouted by movements founded by snake oil salesmen and worse.

Haeckels embryo charts on the other hand... hilarious.

 

[Kevinward777]

I have
And it scares me more everyday that people in Australia want to believe (and push unto others) the nonsense spouted by movements founded by snake oil salesmen and worse.

What is so scary? You’re a human rights advocate... does starvation get you fired up Muzz? Or more just the nasty Jesus pushers who are all supposedly in opposition to gay people? How is some idiot demanding people burn a bunch of science books scary? Harden up mate FMD.

 

[MuzztheEagle]

Christianity...

Haeckels embryo charts on the other hand... hilarious.

So what? It doesn't encourage the concept that some are greater than others - leading to violence, slavery, oppression etc.
I fail to see what any of this has to do with science (or why you are so opposed to it). Despite what you think Science and Religion are not competing ideas and attempting to rubbish Science does not make your concept of sky fairies any more credible.

 

[Kevinward777]

I have
And it scares me more everyday that people in Australia want to believe (and push unto others) the nonsense spouted by movements founded by snake oil salesmen and worse.

Scares you???? Still shaking my head.

 

[MuzztheEagle]

What is so scary? You’re a human rights crusader... does starvation get you fired up Muzz? Or more just the nasty Jesus pushers?

How would you feel if Australia introduced laws allowing their husbands to beat their wives, based on the concept of freedom of speech? I'm guessing you would be opposed because it's the wrong religion/god.
But it's fine for people for your religion to claim homosexuals are lesser based on an interpretation of holy scripture, despite the damage it will cause and that right needs to be protected?
The idea of religious protection is a terrible one - we aren't talking about morality or human rights but rather interpretation of 2000 year old scripture that was written to suit someone's agenda at the time.
Again, how do you know which religion/s are right and which are wrong?

 

[MuzztheEagle]

Scares you???? Still shaking my head.

What about the fact that people are willing to believe in what they are told without proof? This is something you seem passionate in - when it fits your beliefs.
What about the damage that causes to believers who think that god will answer their prayers to cure their cancer or a child's illness a to find them that new job or to end the drought.
What about the damage that religions such as Scientology & Joho's that take money and rights from their believers - would you deny this happens. What of those other crazy religions who beat their wives and what about those in Catholic churches who were told to keep quite or risk offending God?
And what separates your religion from those religions? It's not differences in 2000 year old scripture, yet that is what you place your belief in.

 

[Kevinward777]

How would you feel if Australia introduced laws allowing their husbands to beat their wives, based on the concept of freedom of speech? I'm guessing you would be opposed because it's the wrong religion/god.
But it's fine for people for your religion to claim homosexuals are lesser based on an interpretation of holy scripture, despite the damage it will cause and that right needs to be protected?
The idea of religious protection is a terrible one - we aren't talking about morality or human rights but rather interpretation of 2000 year old scripture that was written to suit someone's agenda at the time.

I’ve never claimed anyone is lesser... I’ve never advocated oppression, discrimination or profiting through a religion. I take offence when you make generalised assumptions and lump me in with your preconceived ideals of what a Christian is. You have even taken the liberty of telling me and my wife how we should be socialising based upon one sentence i wrote in a post.

I keep referring to starvation because it kills millions every single year, and it’s not even on your gay/feminist left wing radar.