omnipotent beings discussion

[MuzztheEagle]

Muzz, given your Satan promo tape .... and the above Folau Christian promo ....

I am starting to think the decision is being clearer....

 

[Eagle thru 'n' thru]

View attachment 11719

Cool Alice Cooper got some great tunes. Born of a preacher man, and he himself is a born again christian......but I don't think he'll be releasing any worship albumns in the near future.

 

[MuzztheEagle]

Cool Alice Cooper got some great tunes. Born of a preacher man, and he himself is a born again christian......but I don't think he'll be releasing any worship albumns in the near future.

 

[Captain Moondog]

There's no omnipotent being out there, if there is he should send us all back to Neanderthal, clean slate, we've ****ed up........we've got leaders with confidence and ego and no ****ing idea. The future is the past, groundhog day is here and it'll be here tomorrow.....

 

[manlyfan76]

Cool Alice Cooper got some great tunes. Born of a preacher man, and he himself is a born again christian......but I don't think he'll be releasing any worship albumns in the near future.

My mate is friends with Alice. They always catch up if Alice is in Aus. He says that Alice is very smart.

 

[Woodsie]

There's no omnipotent being out there, if there is he should send us all back to Neanderthal, clean slate, we've ****ed up........we've got leaders with confidence and ego and no ****ing idea. The future is the past, groundhog day is here and it'll be here tomorrow.....

You run out of moonshine again ??

 

[Captain Moondog]

You run out of moonshine again ??

Yeah, well Homo Stupidus was an alternate title for us Neanderthals.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

he seven fundamental tenets.

• One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.

So, vegetarian then?

 

[MuzztheEagle]

So, vegetarian then?

I think that would up to the individual to decide what that means to them. In the same manner that the ideals of other religions should be used for self reflection, discussion and civil debate. It's when this idea falls apart that individuals and organisations are able to impose and promote strict rules on how to live your life based on what they believe. And that is often when religion does the most harm.

 

[MuzztheEagle]

Here's a ripper! Daniel writes 500 years BC about this great empire that dominates the world and then is suddenly cut off. It's then divided into 4 empires...then those 4 become 2 empires....then those 2 become 1. Sound familiar?? It should if you know your history lol.....

In 300BC, Alexander the Great ruled it all...then he was killed at the age of 32. (suddenly cut off!) His empire was divided amongst his 4 generals (4 empires). Those 4 empires became 2 empires....the Selucid and the Ptolemaic. Those 2 empires combined and formed the Roman Empire. Then Jesus arrived. Historians are baffled and amazed at the accuracy of Daniels prophecy....500 years before Jesus was born. (And the bible is full of these prophecies...please don't take my word for that....check it out yourselves! It's easy!).

Hey @mozgrame, was this you?

@Kevinward777, here is one example of you ignoring facts, logic and reality in favour of interpretations and beliefs that fit your own. You went out of your way to thank Moz for his invaluable research while choosing to ignore any critique on the post.

 

[Woodsie]

There's no omnipotent being out there, if there is he should send us all back to Neanderthal, clean slate, we've ****ed up........we've got leaders with confidence and ego and no ****ing idea. The future is the past, groundhog day is here and it'll be here tomorrow.....

I've got a hug with your name on it old mate if you need it ......

 

[Woodsie]

One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason."

So, vegetarian then?

NO ..... it clearly states .. with reason ...

 

[MuzztheEagle]

@Kevinward777, you asked for some details on Big Bang Theory:
I'm not entirely sure why you think this will help you produce evidence to support your chosen religion but hey, why not?
Firstly, the big bang theory is exactly that, a scientific theory. It is not a belief that physicists (and atheists) blindly believe in to solve the mysteries of the universe. It is a model, based on our best understanding of related observable behaviours - e.g. Gravity. In order to meet the requirements to be considered as a true scientific theory and model it must have expected outcomes that can be tested. Next, the experiments performed to test a model are not designed to prove it but to disprove it. And finally, scientists are always looking to find and test a better model or theory to explain the behaviour of things (one example being the search to find an answer that can bring together both General Relativity and Quantum Field Theory). With that in mind here are some examples of experiments and observations (that I have done as an undergrad) which support the big bang theory. Sadly, I never got to play on the LHC at Cern so I wont bore you with anything on the Higgs Boson 🙂
Please supply me with some experiments that I can do that will do the same for your chosen god.
1. If the universe started from a singularity then it would remain in a state of flux. That is it would not become or remain stationary at any point.
You can test this, with big enough telescopes (and yes I have used them) by observing the shifts in wavelength of radiation from distant objects (similar to the doppler effect). Across the universe there is a significant "red shift" which disproves the idea that the universe is in a steady state.
2. The immense heat an energy created by such an event would still be detectable today and across all the universe, not such from sources that emit radiation. If you look at the spaces in between stars it looks like there is nothing there, but use a radio telescope and you can pick up radiation in even the darkest regions of space.

Now none of this proves or disproves god (and I'm sure you want to ask - well what was there before the big bang if it happened?) but that's not the point and that's not how Science works. 2000 years ago someone probably would have smeared cow dung on you to cure your leprosy but thanks to scientific methods (theories, investigation, experiments, evidence) we can now cure it.
Your religion on the other hand can never progress as it cannot be investigated and it can't be improved.

I have no problem with people choosing to believe something - as long as it does not impact on others. And preaching 2000 year old ideals in the name of God, without the ability to critique or question them, most definitely does.

 

[Kevinward777]

@Kevinward777, you asked for some details on Big Bang Theory:
I'm not entirely sure why you think this will help you produce evidence to support your chosen religion but hey, why not?
Firstly, the big bang theory is exactly that, a scientific theory. It is not a belief that physicists (and atheists) blindly believe in to solve the mysteries of the universe. It is a model, based on our best understanding of related observable behaviours - e.g. Gravity. In order to meet the requirements to be considered as a true scientific theory and model it must have expected outcomes that can be tested. Next, the experiments performed to test a model are not designed to prove it but to disprove it. And finally, scientists are always looking to find and test a better model or theory to explain the behaviour of things (one example being the search to find an answer that can bring together both General Relativity and Quantum Field Theory). With that in mind here are some examples of experiments and observations (that I have done as an undergrad) which support the big bang theory. Sadly, I never got to play on the LHC at Cern so I wont bore you with anything on the Higgs Boson 🙂
Please supply me with some experiments that I can do that will do the same for your chosen god.
1. If the universe started from a singularity then it would remain in a state of flux. That is it would not become or remain stationary at any point.
You can test this, with big enough telescopes (and yes I have used them) by observing the shifts in wavelength of radiation from distant objects (similar to the doppler effect). Across the universe there is a significant "red shift" which disproves the idea that the universe is in a steady state.
2. The immense heat an energy created by such an event would still be detectable today and across all the universe, not such from sources that emit radiation. If you look at the spaces in between stars it looks like there is nothing there, but use a radio telescope and you can pick up radiation in even the darkest regions of space.

Now none of this proves or disproves god (and I'm sure you want to ask - well what was there before the big bang if it happened?) but that's not the point and that's not how Science works. 2000 years ago someone probably would have smeared cow dung on you to cure your leprosy but thanks to scientific methods (theories, investigation, experiments, evidence) we can now cure it.
Your religion on the other hand can never progress as it cannot be investigated and it can't be improved.

I have no problem with people choosing to believe something - as long as it does not impact on others. And preaching 2000 year old ideals in the name of God, without the ability to critique or question them, most definitely does.

Dear @MuzztheEagle... I began formulating a counter response to your post, and it suddenly became abundantly clear that nothing I could write was going to make one iota of difference to how you view things.

I will continue to believe in the two thousand year old accounts of the man named Jesus, and you can continue pursuing theories about a supposed event which occurred 13.8 billion years ago.

You’re probably very fortunate you didn’t get to play around with the Hadron Collider though mate, because there seems to be a feck load of strange ceremonial occurrences taking place over there which have SFA to do with science.

 

[MuzztheEagle]

Dear @MuzztheEagle... I began formulating a counter response to your post, and it suddenly became abundantly clear that nothing I could write was going to make one iota of difference to how you view things.

I will continue to believe in the two thousand year old accounts of the man named Jesus, and you can continue pursuing theories about a supposed event which occurred 13.8 billion years ago.

You’re probably very fortunate you didn’t get to play around with the Hadron Collider though mate, because there seems to be a feck load of strange ceremonial occurrences taking place over there which have SFA to do with science.

As long as you don't use your medieval beliefs to harm and discriminate others (and then claim religious freedom as your right to do so) we probably won't have a problem. Unless you get confused about the difference between opinions and claims to actual facts 😉
Also, to be clear; I don't use science as an alternative to religion. Like I said, I'm happy to say I don't know the answer to the universe's big mysteries but there is nothing in any religion or holy (holey) text that can provide any evidence to support their knowledge of the unknown. So if you really need to believe in something to fill that void, how do you choose? If it was me I'd just pick the one that sounded the most fun!

 

[manlyfan76]

Why do religious believers get stuck on the old there must be a god because what was before the big bang? You can't create something out of nothing arguments to justify the existence of a god?

To me it is a very flawed way to think.
If you say that god had to exist before the big bang because you can't create something out of nothing, than what god created your god, then what god created the god that created your god and so on forever.

Why does creation need an external element?

 

[manlyfan76]

There's no omnipotent being out there, if there is he should send us all back to Neanderthal, clean slate, we've ****ed up........we've got leaders with confidence and ego and no ****ing idea. The future is the past, groundhog day is here and it'll be here tomorrow.....

So this reminds me of an interesting discussion I've had in the past.
Are there neanderthals in heaven?
They had intelligence to use tools, had at least basic ceremonies, lived in groups and as a species lived over a long, long time. They were a 99.7% match to homo sapian. Now the Catholic church said those who had not heard the word of Jesus but still lived a good life will go to heaven.
Does that include the neanderthals?

No soul, no heaven I hear you say? God only gave humans a soul? OK what about the offspring of a human and neanderthal?

What about someone who is only 18% neanderthal?
What about modern Europeans that have a percentage of neanderthal DNA in them. If you said no to the first question is love to hear your explanation.

 

[Chip and Chase]

I don't think the Neanderthals got baptised in Izzy's backyard pool - ergo they aren't going to heaven

 

[Captain Moondog]

So this reminds me of an interesting discussion I've had in the past.
Are there neanderthals in heaven?
They had intelligence to use tools, had at least basic ceremonies, lived in groups and as a species lived over a long, long time. They were a 99.7% match to homo sapian. Now the Catholic church said those who had not heard the word of Jesus but still lived a good life will go to heaven.
Does that include the neanderthals?

No soul, no heaven I hear you say? God only gave humans a soul? OK what about the offspring of a human and neanderthal?

What about someone who is only 18% neanderthal?
What about modern Europeans that have a percentage of neanderthal DNA in them. If you said no to the first question is love to hear your explanation.

There's a theory that interbreeding between Neanderthals and early Homo Sapiens resulted in a great leap forward in intelligence due to hybrid vigour, the phenomenon occurs when you cross breeds of animals, people included and create a hybrid resulting in increased intelligence and vigour in the offspring. Denisovans were probably in the mix too, at least in Asia.

 

[manlyfan76]

There's a theory that interbreeding between Neanderthals and early Homo Sapiens resulted in a great leap forward in intelligence due to hybrid vigour, the phenomenon occurs when you cross breeds of animals, people included and create a hybrid resulting in increased intelligence and vigour in the offspring. Denisovans were probably in the mix too, at least in Asia.

Which is why i find it funny that the church, whose members mostly have some Neanderthal dna say that the neanderthals were animals and not human with a soul and cant go to heaven.