Pre-Game Manly v Tigers [Round 19, 2021]

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GAME ON! Head over to the Game Thread!

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44 24
Suncorp Stadium
24 Jul 2021 05:30 PM

Team Lists


The big issue, as Bozo reminds us often, is speed. That and creativity have been missing for much of the past number of years especially when Turbo has been absent. It was all left to DCE to create making him the targeted player. The forwards have been OK most of the time though a couple we now have, have upped the standard. But it was the backs region that was letting us down. Having Foran and Schuster has created more space for the centres and Turbo, taken the pressure off DCE, and now because we have two speedy wingmen, attacking movements have produced. Speed and creativity. This side smells like a premiership side soon to blossom within the next one to two years, unless injuries haunt us yet again

Also want to give a special mention from that Balmain - Manly clash. Mal Cochrane was a pleasure to watch. Fast, creative, good defender. After Krillich he was my No 2 hooker at Manly, even ahead of Jones and Ballin. Very under rated
 
Gee I hope the players aren't as cocky as some of us on here because in this competition you can loose to any side. We lost to the Canberra reserve grade team a few weeks ago when everybody though we'd give them a touch up. I know we have all hands on deck this week but the players will need to remain ready for a arm wrestle and respect the football and the opposition. Go Manly!
 
Gee I hope the players aren't as cocky as some of us on here because in this competition you can loose to any side. We lost to the Canberra reserve grade team a few weeks ago when everybody though we'd give them a touch up. I know we have all hands on deck this week but the players will need to remain ready for a arm wrestle and respect the football and the opposition. Go Manly!


Yep. That's certainly an important ingredient. Its a Grand Prix wining car, but did we forget the petrol.
 
Agree. It was also reported that Olakau-atu wasn't at his best at training in the pre season so fair reason not to pick him straight away. Like you say they need to earn their spot. That same loyalty that everyone complains about back then is the same loyalty shown to Harper etc and its why guys like Suli can't get a run and Walker on the bench.
Haumole looks leaner to me this year, like he's lost a bit of puppy fat.

Schuster also had an injury he picked up in his only game in first grade last year so would have been lacking in match fitness, so I assume Des' original intention was to bring him back via the bench like he did with Haumole (but even then that was accelerated due to injuries to Jetski & Sirro).
 
The tigers are there for the taking but we still need to respect the ball.

If we just turn up thinking we have this game already won with turbo and co back then we could give the tigers a leg up.

We cant show them any mercy and not give them a sniff.

If we play to our potential we could win by 40 but could be a lot closer if we are not switched on.

Manly 32-10 is my prediction.
 
Yep. That's certainly an important ingredient. Its a Grand Prix wining car, but did we forget the petrol.
Nope, tanks full, just got to go out their and drive the balls off it, it’s a race winning car that has way to much horsepower for the opposition to catch, just needs to be well driven all the way to the finish line.
 
This theory has been done to death so I may as well have a go too. To take someone's spot in first grade you should earn it by performances in reserve grade. How did the new young guys go in reserve grade? Oh that's right, there wasn't any! The development players were very hard hit by the effect of the pandemic.

Schu and Haumole were always going to be brought through this year, but to start with the incumbents sends two messages to the squad - loyalty to incumbents by giving them a chance to prove their worth, and young contenders know they have to earn a shot by performances, they won't just be gifted an opportunity 'just to see' whether they are up to it.

As it happens long term injuries to Siro, Davey Jetski Boyle Suli meant their were opportunities, well taken by Schu, Haumole, Harper & Sipley. None of which proves Des has no idea and was 'saved by injuries'. In my humble opinion!
Yes move on - Des is a high quality coach and knows far far more than us nufties. Amazing how injuries supposedly saved him and he has no idea on talent. We are all sitting here today amazed at the roster we have and have available and how strong we look and how fabulous we are playing. Surely even the death riders can begrudgingly admit that Mr Hasler has played some tiny tiny part in the development of the roster, the development of the players and how we are playing now. Surely this being the best side we have picked in a few years gets Des some accolades.
 
Yes move on - Des is a high quality coach and knows far far more than us nufties. Amazing how injuries supposedly saved him and he has no idea on talent. We are all sitting here today amazed at the roster we have and have available and how strong we look and how fabulous we are playing. Surely even the death riders can begrudgingly admit that Mr Hasler has played some tiny tiny part in the development of the roster, the development of the players and how we are playing now. Surely this being the best side we have picked in a few years gets Des some accolades.
You would think.
 
Agree. It was also reported that Olakau-atu wasn't at his best at training in the pre season so fair reason not to pick him straight away. Like you say they need to earn their spot. That same loyalty that everyone complains about back then is the same loyalty shown to Harper etc and its why guys like Suli can't get a run and Walker on the bench.
Olakau'atu had a injury pre season right?

Didnt play the trial and he played ressies round 1.

No big conspiracy.

Anyway a coversation that is done and done
 
Interesting article.
This theory has been done to death so I may as well have a go too. To take someone's spot in first grade you should earn it by performances in reserve grade. How did the new young guys go in reserve grade? Oh that's right, there wasn't any! The development players were very hard hit by the effect of the pandemic.

Schu and Haumole were always going to be brought through this year, but to start with the incumbents sends two messages to the squad - loyalty to incumbents by giving them a chance to prove their worth, and young contenders know they have to earn a shot by performances, they won't just be gifted an opportunity 'just to see' whether they are up to it.

As it happens long term injuries to Siro, Davey Jetski Boyle Suli meant their were opportunities, well taken by Schu, Haumole, Harper & Sipley. None of which proves Des has no idea and was 'saved by injuries'. In my humble opinion!
There was reserve grade at the start of the year; that’s where Olakau’atu got injured. Unless you are talking about last year, in which case there is merit in than line of argument.

I found this article interesting. It suggests some of us know-nothing nufties were not the only ones frustrated with the lack of specific young players not being selected up front.


Paul Kent: Bob Fulton’s Manly legacy driving the next golden generation at the Sea Eagles​

The late Bob Fulton loved proving people wrong, and PAUL KENT reveals just how deep the Immortal’s influence on this Manly roster goes.

It surprises nobody that Bob Fulton, who created a bigger shadow in the game than anybody else that ever scuffed his knees, is still wielding influence at Manly.
He had a way of understanding the game that was often sought and rarely found, the ability to take the complex and make it simple.

He liked his players fast and big. He wanted a style that exaggerated that advantage.
But it wasn’t working out that way earlier this season, when the cancer had him and he was unaware of the fatal hold it would have on him, and he watched the Sea Eagles be something south of awful through the first four rounds.

They conceded 156 points in those first four games, and so Fulton responded the only way he knew how, which was to pester coach Des Hasler on the phone and urge changes to style and roster that he was sure would improve them.
There was plenty of frustration in him at the time. He drove Hasler crazy.

The one thing he could barely stand was Manly performing poorly. It irritated him.

What he saw in this Manly team was a team failing to make good on six years of work that began after Manly failed to make the finals, after a decade of success, and Geoff Toovey was ousted as coach and Trent Barrett hired.

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It was no quick fix back then, he realised, and so Fulton did what he always did and broke everything up and recreated it in his own style.

He recognised the traditional way of developing players through the junior system was archaic and left clubs vulnerable. The Manly junior league, which some clubs still hold on to, no longer produced enough quality players to be relied upon to feed players.

So he turned to who he could trust, which was family, and didn’t that make some noisy.

The Sea Eagles have identified talented juniors like Josh Schuster at a young age. Picture: Chris Hyde/Getty Images
Son Brett looked at the way English clubs developed players, creating elite pathways that worked beyond simple talent.

Players needed to be coached like elite senior players the moment they entered the system.

Players were signed as young as 14 and developed, from the moment they signed, to play the way Manly wanted to play football.

Not even men, barely teenagers, they were assisted not just with football but through schooling and whatever personal issues they had, an all-stop shop at the Sea Eagles.

Daughter Kristie was brought in to run it. Son Scott was hired to recruit.

The noise grew. Fulton was creating jobs for his family. His critics thought they had found an edge.

I never saw anybody that laughed off being hated so much. He understood it from the moment he signed at Manly and they began booing the Sea Eagles across Sydney every time they ran oil to an away ground.

It meant he was winning, understanding that hatred was often driven by bitter jealousy.

The Sea Eagles linked with Blacktown, as their NSW Cup team, which further outraged locals in the Manly area.

Young players like Sean Keppie have allowed Manly to rise this season. Picture: Chris Hyde/Getty Images
Now they were shipping players in from out of the junior league, like this would ever work.

Emails even started landing my way condemning Fulton, daring me to write it, unaware of what he was building at the club or that, eventually, what would happen is what is happening now.

He laughed them off.

Later, Barrett quit and Hasler returned and he brought Noel Cleal back with him.

Cleal and Scott have worked closely since.

The elite pathways continued being driven, even through the occasional managerial hiccup in head office, with a clarity of purpose.

What was not being recognised at Manly was that inner sense Fulton had.

Wayne Bennett was an early rival, even enemy of Fulton, but later said how he had known only three great talent scouts in his time in the game, those being the great Broncos scout Cyril Connell, former Raiders and Kangaroos coach Don Furner, and Fulton.

His eye for talent was pitch perfect.

Now look at where the Sea Eagles are, the rewards for those early years, when they resisted the noise and believed in what they were doing.

Haumole Olakau'ata has been a revelation this season, and the Sea Eagles have locked him down until at least the end of the 2024 season. Picture: Matt King/Getty Images
With Manly’s Origin stars rested or injured, 13 of the Manly 17 in last Friday’s win over St George Illawarra were signed by Scott.

They include the potential superstars like Josh Schuster and rising stars like Haumole Olakau’atu, Toafofoa Sipley and Sean Keppie. The youth that has helped Manly rise this season.

Fulton’s influence was there in Marty Taupau and Dylan Walker, both of whom he signed.

Sidelined were several significant others he contracted, mainly Tom and Jake Trbojevic, Curtis Sironen and captain Daly Cherry-Evans.

“We are in a situation where we’re reaping the benefits of those juniors who have come through,” Hasler said Tuesday.

“You talk to Scott and Brett, they’ve developed these guys.

“Schuster was a Parramatta junior but he wasn’t rated, so it’s not always the pick of the crop.”

 
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I am truly excited at the prospect of seeing our full strength team.

BUT

I’m also worried about the team just thinking they’ve got the game sown up already.

They need to be hungry , not complacent!!
 
I found this article interesting. It suggests some of us no-nothing nufties we’re not the only ones frustrated with the lack of specific young players not being selected up front.
First, no need to insult fellow Silvertailers by calling them 'no-nothing nufties'!
Second, which specific young players are you referring to? The article didn't name any.

And yes I know there was reserve grade at the start of this year, I was referring to the lack of the lower tier comps last year.

As we know, Haumole played only one reserve game in which he was injured, and was brought into NRL as soon as he recovered. Schu also had only one reserve game before being used in NRL. As I recall, the specific players getting disparaged by your no-nothing nufties in the early rounds included the likes of Parker, Croker and Garrick, each are now mainstays. (are you sure you don't mean 'know-nothing nufties'?)

I've no doubt Bozo was aghast at our opening months of results, as we all were. But Harper wasn't exactly setting the reserves on fire. Or are you suggesting Bozo wanted Suli sacked? Maybe he did. But then why does Kent make a point of mentioning how Bozo preferred players fast and big? as opposed to nippy players who rush up in defence?

Anyway all good, the only one who really knows what was in Des's head back then is the man himself, and maybe he doesn't even know, or remember, if the dementia theories are correct. I am pleased that you find some solace in a Paul Kent article, and while I don't doubt he has some solid sources in the game, its bit of a stretch to think he got this stuff direct from 'the other side'. So I take it as Kent recounting someone else's second hand version. Not to say its wrong, more that it doesn't really throw much light on anything, so far as I can see. All our views as fans are valid and none of them ever really influence what happens, but I'm still comfortable with my theory despite Kent's article :)

edit - I only just saw the full article in the other thread, was just going by the part you initially posted above
 
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First, no need to insult fellow Silvertailers by calling them 'no-nothing nufties'!
Second, which specific young players are you referring to? The article didn't name any.

And yes I know there was reserve grade at the start of this year, I was referring to the lack of the lower tier comps last year.

As we know, Haumole played only one reserve game in which he was injured, and was brought into NRL as soon as he recovered. Schu also had only one reserve game before being used in NRL. As I recall, the specific players getting disparaged by your no-nothing nufties in the early rounds included the likes of Parker, Croker and Garrick, each are now mainstays. (are you sure you don't mean 'know-nothing nufties'?)

I've no doubt Bozo was aghast at our opening months of results, as we all were. But Harper wasn't exactly setting the reserves on fire. Or are you suggesting Bozo wanted Suli sacked? Maybe he did. But then why does Kent make a point of mentioning how Bozo preferred players fast and big? as opposed to nippy players who rush up in defence?

Anyway all good, the only one who really knows what was in Des's head back then is the man himself, and maybe he doesn't even know, or remember, if the dementia theories are correct. I am pleased that you find some solace in a Paul Kent article, and while I don't doubt he has some solid sources in the game, its bit of a stretch to think he got this stuff direct from 'the other side'. So I take it as Kent recounting someone else's second hand version. Not to say its wrong, more that it doesn't really throw much light on anything, so far as I can see. All our views as fans are valid and none of them ever really influence what happens, but I'm still comfortable with my theory despite Kent's article :)
A product of typing quickly on the iphone with fat fingers and predictive text, hence the immediate edits before your post.

As for know-nothing nufties, this certainly wasn't my inference, merely a relatively accurate summation of the various comments and lols to a number of posters who advocated for youth in one way, shape or form.

While you seem to be interested in the context of there being no reserve grade last year - which I agree is a valid point - you seem to neglect the context of our performances last year, both collectively and individually. Certain players who hadn't earned the right of automatic selection based on last year's performances and had a lack of historically solid performances over the years unlike DCE, Tom Jake etc, should have their position in the team questioned and should not be met with scoffing at the suggestion that Schuster, Olakau'atu, Harper, Keppie, Sipley and even Koula be given a crack earlier than what they have (or will in Koula's case).

As for Harper, he was initially being called by many to play fullback in Tom's absence as he did in the trial, from there he would have the opportunity to impress and find his way into the team; at centre as it turns out.

In terms of specific players not being mentioned, it is quite clear that at the very least Schu, Ola and Keppie are being inferred.

It was, and continues to be, an argument: "what would the youth advocators know, when Des is an experienced premiership-winning coach?" Well, I'd suggest Bob has a greater resume of experience and knowledge.

Now, as for taking solace in a Paul Kent article, it would seem you are mistaking some blind faith in an angry media-man for my acknowledging that Paul Kent, was in fact, a very close friend of Bob Fulton's and would absolutely know enough of the details of the situation to report it with accuracy.

You appear to have no problem engaging in the debate, lol'ing (is that a word?) or putting a cheeky boot into people's views from time to time. Surely, when further evidence comes to light that some of the youth advocators may not have been as far off the mark as some suggest; it can be taken with a degree of humility?

BTW, this is all said in fun and with respect.
 
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