Pre-Game Manly v Tigers [Round 19, 2021]

[Mark from Brisbane]

I’m most definitely a “ know nothing nuftie” ( just check out my position on the footy tipping to confirm ).

Seriously though , it’s all just opinions and like arseholes everyone has one!!

If you don’t agree just scroll on.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

A product of typing quickly on the iphone with fat fingers and predictive text, hence the immediate edits before your post.

Don't worry i know!

I'll read the article again, but I didn't notice it specifying which players Bozo wanted out or in.
And I posted before the season began that I didn't expect Schu to necessarily make the round 1 team. Look back and not even only at Manly, the best youngsters are often brought into first grade part way through a year, not from the get-go, and there's various reasons for that.
Anyway you are right in that I am in the camp of those who don't think we should rush the young guys. Clearly Schu, Ola, Harper, Keppie, Sipley are all ready now and deserve their spots.
I do think experience is underrated at times,as I like to point out, the reps sides generally only have one or two youngsters at most, because the best players are mainly very mature and experienced.

 

[pjayz]

Don't worry i know!

I'll read the article again, but I didn't notice it specifying which players Bozo wanted out or in.
And I posted before the season began that I didn't expect Schu to necessarily make the round 1 team. Look back and not even only at Manly, the best youngsters are often brought into first grade part way through a year, not from the get-go, and there's various reasons for that.
Anyway you are right in that I am in the camp of those who don't think we should rush the young guys. Clearly Schu, Ola, Harper, Keppie, Sipley are all ready now and deserve their spots.
I do think experience is underrated at times,as I like to point out, the reps sides generally only have one or two youngsters at most, because the best players are mainly very mature and experienced.

Yes, no doubt rep teams typically have experience over youth; however, they have proven to be the cream of the crop. Des does advocate general experience over positional experience in the lower grades, hence Walker at fullback and halfback, Garrick at fullback, Parker on the wing at times etc. I tend to think it isn't so black and white and is more a sliding scale that must consider a number of factors; especially when you have players like Koula and Tuipulotu, who I would argue, are ready for a crack, or Cust who is a more natural seven than Walker.

As for the players specified by Bozo, you are correct, the article doesn't come out and say it directly but the young players who have come in are really the only options. I am also combining what I have heard from someone I know that used to coach at the club and is very familiar with the young guys now in the team.

Anyway, as usual, your input always makes for informative reading.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

It's very tough for Koula and Tuipulotu without any games, but they still might get a debut in the next month or so, especially if someone has a niggle.
I agree Cust is a more accomplished halfback than Walker is ever likely to be, but I assumed Des simply wanted Walker to get plenty of game time and plenty of time with the ball.

 

[KaZa]

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle...Des is no idiot but he can be conservative...
At the end of the day, he is still the one coaching the fresh faces that have come in and invigorated the side so he deserves credit for that regardless.
it works both ways too...there was a call to put Schu at 6 and keep Foran away from the side and what do you know? Foran has been fantastic, lead the side admirably, taken pressure of Daly and allowed Schu to play with less pressure and expectation on an edge. There are times where the conservative approach is warranted. Well done Dessie!

Definitely the truth may be somewhere in the middle. Des is definitely conservative especially with debuting younger players. Surely we have seen enough him over the last 10 years to know that.

There may be a case for one or two players but not all of them ones mentioned.

Harper looked good last season and deserved a spot. Even trialled him at fullback and went with Walker which was not a great decision.

People say these kids have to earn their spots. How ? If they weren't given a chance? They got a chance eventually and look at them go. What about the players that they had to earn the positions from?

Jetski Boyle etc. They were part of a side that was awful to end the season. Why did they keep their spots?? From what I saw they were not good enough. Why start them for four games again into the new season... Who unfortunately showed they were not good enough yet again.

Injuries led to the opportunities. If they didn't happen.. who knows how long does would have persisted.

We can argue to the cows come home. This isn't an attack on Des. I actually still like Des. But that first four rounds his selections were frustrating. Awful awful performances that kept getting rewarded for far too long.

He's got it right now and I give him credit for it. Keep it going now Des. Don't bring the likes of Siro Jetski back in unless there's injuries. Current side doing very well

 

[Bearfax]

We were blessed as a club when Arthurson signed Fulton. Arthurson and Fulton are the two primary reasons Manly have been so successful and I've said before I've been most impressed by the Fulton family recruitment process in lower grades. Glad we have them.

 

[The Wheel]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1417685958586032135

 

[Snake]

We were blessed as a club when Arthurson signed Fulton. Arthurson and Fulton are the two primary reasons Manly have been so successful and I've said before I've been most impressed by the Fulton family recruitment process in lower grades. Glad we have them.

the unwillingness to accept mediocrity and the fact that we've let very few outsiders into the organisation over the years (yes, we've had some CEOs but as far as coaches and football managers go, it's largely been in-house) has been a great strength of this club...largely brought about by the two you've mentioned.

When you look across the code, so many clubs have been brought undone by tearing everything down, to start again, and it doesn't work. The best recent example I can think of is Brisbane. They tore the joint down to bring in Seibold and now they're screwed. The Dragons do it a fair bit. The Titans have done it many times. The Dogs have done it recently. We've been fortunate to have constants like the Fulton family that have meant the fabric of this great club has remained throughout our various guises. I'm grateful for that.

 

[Shoe1]

Keep your eyes on the Cliffy Lyons with and without the ball from 15m 55s to 16m 37s. Garry Jack... What a legend Cliffy was!!!

Nice head high from Des on Pearce at 5 min 30 or so.

 

[BOZO]

We were blessed as a club when Arthurson signed Fulton. Arthurson and Fulton are the two primary reasons Manly have been so successful and I've said before I've been most impressed by the Fulton family recruitment process in lower grades. Glad we have them.

Great people are a clubs greatest investment that money cannot buy

Look at how the wealthy Broncos are going run by coconuts on high salaries and with little return for their one state club . What a disgrace

The Trent Barret NRL performance ladder

Pos	Team	Pos		Played	Points	Wins	Drawn	Lost	Byes	For	Against	Diff.	Home	Away	Form	Next
1		1	Storm	17	32	15	0	2	1	632	198	434	9 - 0	6 - 2	4 - 0	Cowboys	$2.50
2		2	Panthers	17	32	15	0	2	1	499	173	326	9 - 0	6 - 2	3 - 1	Broncos	$3.50
3		3	Rabbitohs	17	30	14	0	3	1	503	346	157	7 - 2	7 - 1	5 - 0	Warriors	$6.50
4		4	Eels	17	28	13	0	4	1	474	255	219	6 - 2	7 - 2	3 - 1	Raiders	$11.00
5		5	Roosters	17	24	11	0	6	1	447	349	98	6 - 2	5 - 4	3 - 2	Knights	$23.00
6		6	Sea Eagles	17	22	10	0	7	1	485	354	131	5 - 3	5 - 4	4 - 1	Wests Tigers	$13.00
7		7	Dragons	17	18	8	0	9	1	358	382	-24	4 - 3	4 - 6	2 - 2	Titans	$151.00
8		8	Sharks	17	16	7	0	10	1	334	394	-60	5 - 3	2 - 7	3 - 2	Bulldogs	$101.00
9		9	Raiders	17	16	7	0	10	1	347	421	-74	3 - 6	4 - 4	3 - 2	Eels	$67.00
10		10	Knights	17	16	7	0	10	1	283	420	-137	5 - 4	2 - 6	2 - 2	Roosters	$81.00
11		11	Titans	17	14	6	0	11	1	394	468	-74	3 - 6	3 - 5	1 - 3	Dragons	$151.00
12		12	Wests Tigers	17	14	6	0	11	1	372	502	-130	3 - 6	3 - 5	1 - 3	Sea Eagles	$251.00
13		13	Cowboys	17	14	6	0	11	1	324	527	-203	5 - 4	1 - 7	0 - 5	Storm	$251.00
14		14	Warriors	17	12	5	0	12	1	333	426	-93	3 - 6	2 - 6	0 - 5	Rabbitohs	$301.00
15		15	Broncos	17	10	4	0	13	1	282	542	-260	3 - 5	1 - 8	1 - 3	Panthers	$501.00
16		16	Bulldogs	17	6	2	0	15	1	212	522	-310	1 - 7	1 - 8	1 - 4	Sharks

 

[40 years an eagle]

Wests Tigers have won five of their past seven games against the Sea Eagles.

Don't take them lightly...again.

 

[Dee Why Eagle]

Definitely the truth may be somewhere in the middle. Des is definitely conservative especially with debuting younger players. Surely we have seen enough him over the last 10 years to know that.

There may be a case for one or two players but not all of them ones mentioned.

Harper looked good last season and deserved a spot. Even trialled him at fullback and went with Walker which was not a great decision.

People say these kids have to earn their spots. How ? If they weren't given a chance? They got a chance eventually and look at them go. What about the players that they had to earn the positions from?

Jetski Boyle etc. They were part of a side that was awful to end the season. Why did they keep their spots?? From what I saw they were not good enough. Why start them for four games again into the new season... Who unfortunately showed they were not good enough yet again.

Injuries led to the opportunities. If they didn't happen.. who knows how long does would have persisted.

We can argue to the cows come home. This isn't an attack on Des. I actually still like Des. But that first four rounds his selections were frustrating. Awful awful performances that kept getting rewarded for far too long.

He's got it right now and I give him credit for it. Keep it going now Des. Don't bring the likes of Siro Jetski back in unless there's injuries. Current side doing very well

For what its worth, this seems to echo the frustration of a lot of complaints on the kennel re Des's selections.

 

[davohan123]

Wests Tigers have won five of their past seven games against the Sea Eagles.

Don't take them lightly...again.

Specially that game at brookvale oval a few years ago where were leading with 12 or so minutes to go by 14 and got run down.Was one of the toughest defeats to be at live .

 

[StuBoot]

This theory has been done to death so I may as well have a go too. To take someone's spot in first grade you should earn it by performances in reserve grade. How did the new young guys go in reserve grade? Oh that's right, there wasn't any! The development players were very hard hit by the effect of the pandemic.

Schu and Haumole were always going to be brought through this year, but to start with the incumbents sends two messages to the squad - loyalty to incumbents by giving them a chance to prove their worth, and young contenders know they have to earn a shot by performances, they won't just be gifted an opportunity 'just to see' whether they are up to it.

As it happens long term injuries to Siro, Davey Jetski Boyle Suli meant their were opportunities, well taken by Schu, Haumole, Harper & Sipley. None of which proves Des has no idea and was 'saved by injuries'. In my humble opinion!

Yep, 15 of that Rd 1 squad (of 21) are in this weeks top 17, go figure.

 

[eaglebuzz]

Yep, 15 of that Rd 1 squad (of 21) are in this weeks top 17, go figure.

That's misleading. How many of the starting 17 are in this week's starting 17?

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

This theory has been done to death so I may as well have a go too. To take someone's spot in first grade you should earn it by performances in reserve grade. How did the new young guys go in reserve grade? Oh that's right, there wasn't any! The development players were very hard hit by the effect of the pandemic.

Schu and Haumole were always going to be brought through this year, but to start with the incumbents sends two messages to the squad - loyalty to incumbents by giving them a chance to prove their worth, and young contenders know they have to earn a shot by performances, they won't just be gifted an opportunity 'just to see' whether they are up to it.

As it happens long term injuries to Siro, Davey Jetski Boyle Suli meant their were opportunities, well taken by Schu, Haumole, Harper & Sipley. None of which proves Des has no idea and was 'saved by injuries'. In my humble opinion!

Great post. 👍

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

And watch out for Hamilton who'll bump you off the track.

Its funny isnt it. When Hamilton came into F1 in an championship winning car he was a prat. Didnt like him at all. A few lean years later and a **** car made him grow up fast. Then of course hes been given the 'Melbourne storm' car when everyone else was driving a newtown jets 3 wheeler.
Fast forwad to now and Max Verpantieshead is a total spoilt prat in a very fast car. Bump away Hamilton bump away.

 

[Kevinward777]

Yep, 15 of that Rd 1 squad (of 21) are in this weeks top 17, go figure.

You can lead a horse to water...

 

[Shnorky]

This theory has been done to death so I may as well have a go too. To take someone's spot in first grade you should earn it by performances in reserve grade. How did the new young guys go in reserve grade? Oh that's right, there wasn't any! The development players were very hard hit by the effect of the pandemic.

Schu and Haumole were always going to be brought through this year, but to start with the incumbents sends two messages to the squad - loyalty to incumbents by giving them a chance to prove their worth, and young contenders know they have to earn a shot by performances, they won't just be gifted an opportunity 'just to see' whether they are up to it.

As it happens long term injuries to Siro, Davey Jetski Boyle Suli meant their were opportunities, well taken by Schu, Haumole, Harper & Sipley. None of which proves Des has no idea and was 'saved by injuries'. In my humble opinion!

How do you explain Groca playing one game last year and getting man of the match and schuster playing one game and benji calling it the best debut he has ever seen. Both looked like they belonged in 1st grad yet they couldn't get a start 6 months later, and since have been killing it, in fact both look ins for SOS

 

[pjayz]

You can lead a horse to water...

Now now, only eleven who actually played in round one are in the seventeen. Six positions have changed which is around the number of changes people were calling for at the time. Not all the same changes to be fair, but numbers only tell some of the story and are easily manipulated, which you well know. That spoon just keeps a stirring...;-)