Manly v Roosters Rd 9 (pre game discussion)

[HoldenV8]

Agree, I’ve always liked Frank in the second row. I don’t get why he is maligned, he was integral to our 2017 campaign and I rate him higher than Siro in his role, although Siro provides more in attack. Nothing wrong with a tackling machine second rower!

Frank often gets maligned because he seemingly doesn't do a lot because he doesn't make a lot of metres in attack. But the fact is that since Baz has been our coach, the back rowers have more been workhorses in defence and run a lot of decoys in attack.

Its the same thing with Thomson this year who coincidentally is on the same side of the field (left) that Winterstein played last year. Thomo is doing a fair amount of defensive work, but hasn't seen a lot of the ball in attack.

 

[Sue]

Frank is lazy . His metres are almost unbelieveable they are that bad.

The excuse trotted out is that they didn’t use him on the edges and he only ran a decoy. That’s fine if the whole game is played in the opponents red zone.Average teams like us with poor completion rates don’t actually spend much time there.

Forwards make the great majority of their metres coming out of their own red zone and the tough stuff in midfield.The playmakers aren’t running decoy plays in that part of the field.

In old fashioned terms it’s called sticking your hand up for a tough run.The game is still pretty simple. Run hard , tackle hard.The guy is a giant ffs.

The number of games I’ve seen him throw up 3 or 4 runs for 20 or 30 metres in the entire game is a joke.And all because of decoy runs lol.How hard is it to stick your hand up for a tough run off the dummy half when you are a monster like him.

If he’s the saviour god help us.Even the SuperCoach didn’t pick him until we are now decimated after he was dropped in Round 1 or 2.

 

[MissKate]

Frank is lazy . His metres are almost unbelieveable they are that bad.

The excuse trotted out is that they didn’t use him on the edges and he only ran a decoy. That’s fine if the whole game is played in the opponents red zone.Average teams like us with poor completion rates don’t actually spend much time there.

Forwards make the great majority of their metres coming out of their own red zone and the tough stuff in midfield.The playmakers aren’t running decoy plays in that part of the field.

In old fashioned terms it’s called sticking your hand up for a tough run.The game is still pretty simple. Run hard , tackle hard.The guy is a giant ffs.

The number of games I’ve seen him throw up 3 or 4 runs for 20 or 30 metres in the entire game is a joke.And all because of decoy runs lol.

If he’s the saviour god help us.Even the SuperCoach didn’t pick him until we are now decimated after he was dropped in Round 1 or 2.

I agree, Frank is one of the big disappointments, he has the physique of a SBWtype player - if only

Came out at the beginning of the season about being related to Cahill and Asked him for advice. Cahill said something along the lines of ' give it your everything on the field, don't leave anything to regret'. I am still waiting

 

[pjayz]

Sorry to depart from the Walker hysteria ... but I find it interesting that Lanky Lane has been named at 2nd row and Frankie on the bench. My initial thoughts are the reverse .... ?

PSS re Gojetski ... the kid has something .... but over 15 missed tackles in 3 games ... that is more than Frankie missed all last year ...

That concerned me also. Lane has been effective in the middle.

Possibly more a matter of starting as a reward for form? Regardless, he has been impressive for most of the year and I would hate for him to see minimal ball on the edge.

 

[MissKate]

I'm hoping to see more second phase play this weekend.

I always thought we did well if Marty started the game off with a couple of big runs followed by successful offloads.

Saw some big runs last weekend but not a lot of support and/or offload attempts.

I think the team were under instruction to stop the off loads last game. Players previously were pushing the off load with zero chance of success and it was killing us. Just seemed like they were instructed to just run the ball up.

A nice balance would be good.

Always reminds me of the advice crusher used to give to cuthbo (I think), about only off load if you have a high percentage of pulling it off

 

[Midnight Rambler]

Frank is a fringe 1st grader at best. The guy struggles to crack 100 mtrs.

 

[highlandeagle]

Frank often gets maligned because he seemingly doesn't do a lot because he doesn't make a lot of metres in attack. But the fact is that since Baz has been our coach, the back rowers have more been workhorses in defence and run a lot of decoys in attack.

Its the same thing with Thomson this year who coincidentally is on the same side of the field (left) that Winterstein played last year. Thomo is doing a fair amount of defensive work, but hasn't seen a lot of the ball in attack.

Another example of poor coaching from pretty boy. 2nd rowers that don't make metres and add nothing in attack.This due to poor service from our halves. Our left edge has been devoid of any creativity since Foran and Toovey left. All thanks to this dud L plater coach.

 

[Paw93]

And the one thing I like about Frank is he keeps the team well shaped in attack and defence ... something I think has gone backwards without him and Siro ...

Last week we made a gazillion metres in the forwards but didn't have the shape off the back of it to take advantage ....

He adds a lot as a decoy runner too. One of the better decoys in the game IMO. You'll always see him run right through the line and not stop half way like Thommo did in that Kelly no-try against the Eels.

 

[Sue]

Frank is a fringe 1st grader at best. The guy struggles to crack 100 mtrs.

I cannot remember him ever running for 100m. Maybe the roosters game late last year when he made that long line break that led to a try. 6ft 5 100+ kilos in a side that plays a lot in its own half so should be doing hard yards. Not 3 or 4 runs a game.

And if he’s this big strong monolith with pace ( as sevens requires) why don’t they give him the ball instead of being a decoy!!!!Not like we have a plethora of hole runners at our disposal . Maybe Sirronen but he rarely plays anyway.

I may be missing something but the fact is most teams have about 30 to 40 tackles or about 15 per cent of total time in the red zone. If we assume Frank was given the ball two things happen. Tackled= 0 metres probably as it’s a sweep play.
Scores then usually about 10 metres.
Makes little difference in terms of a whole match.

Good metre eaters like Burgess and Cordner accrue their metres all over the ground and go looking for the ball, not from the odd try off a decoy play. It’s called attitude. When Marty Tapau fires up THATS how you accrue metres. Get your hands on the ball and run.

 

[globaleagle]

Frank often gets maligned because he seemingly doesn't do a lot because he doesn't make a lot of metres in attack. But the fact is that since Baz has been our coach, the back rowers have more been workhorses in defence and run a lot of decoys in attack.

Its the same thing with Thomson this year who coincidentally is on the same side of the field (left) that Winterstein played last year. Thomo is doing a fair amount of defensive work, but hasn't seen a lot of the ball in attack.

You may have to mention that 500 more times to be equal with @Woodsie and even then be prepared for the very next post to read "he sucks, he makes no metres."

 

[HoldenV8]

Another example of poor coaching from pretty boy. 2nd rowers that don't make metres and add nothing in attack.This due to poor service from our halves. Our left edge has been devoid of any creativity since Foran and Toovey left. All thanks to this dud L plater coach.

2016, failed Walker experiment. I lost count of the amount of times I screamed at my telly for Walks to pass the ball off to Marty Taupau on his outside (this was when Kapow was in our back row).....yet it never happened. Classic example was the 16-12 loss to Souffs at Brookie (the night Api got MoM from Ch.9.....). About 3 or 4 times throughout that game, Marty was basically one on one with Luke Keary only about 10 or so metres out.....and Walks never once passed it to him, always running it or holding it up long enough for the other Souffs forwards to get over and help. It was like that just about every time, every game Walker was our 5/8.

Green wasn't as bad as that last year, but with the amount of times Frank saw the ball on the left it wasn't really enough and its led to a lot of criticism of his work rate in attack. And this year Thomson has rarely been sighted in attack because he's rarely seen the ball from Croker and he's been copping the same criticism that he's not doing enough.

With the level of defence having dropped in the NRL since a lot of the U/20 outside back graduates have come into first grade, there is a lot of metres to be made from the back rowers on the edge. Its something we don't do a lot of though.

 

[HappilyManly]

BREAKING: Moses Suli will make his @SeaEagles debut on Sunday against @sydneyroosters after the #NRL club agreed to upgrade his contract and make him a member of its top-30 squad.

 

[Fluffy]

And no one has mentioned Gosiewski has been straight up dropped.

Also go Sipley, Funa and TWright!!!

Not just him, Barrett has straight up dropped Tanginoa, Parker, Tafua, Crocker, Sironen and even Turbo a few weeks ago.

 

[Sue]

Good luck to Moses . Hopefully his NRL career is back on track and he starts with a much need win.Not sure about his fitness but he has plenty of talent and a lot of credit must also go to the guys at our club who have helped him turn his life around in such a short time.

 

[globaleagle]

Just watched Jake's interview about the upcoming game.

Media:
Jackson
Jackson
jackson
jackson

Hey you got sin binned was that your first time? Jake: Yes!
Ok
jackson
jackson
jackson
jackson
dylan
jackson.


fmd media, grow the hell up.

Also...Jake, answer a bit slower, you race through your words when answering questions you don't wanna and it sounds forced. #figjam

Anyway.....

jackson
jackson

 

[Woodsie]

@Sue .. like me, you may have to reassess your years of accumulated knowledge of rugby league .... in particular 2nd rowers ...

You criticise Frank for lack of metres but the following are the average metres per game this year by

Thompson ..83m
Siro ..70.5m
Gojetski ..57m

On those fiqures Frankie was a veritable running Forrest Gump.

A cursory glance at other teams clearly mirror the above fact that 2nd rowers are no longer big metre eaters ... very few are near 100m ... and yes .. there are glaring exceptions like Cordner and Hess, but they are the exceptions and used accordingly by their teams ....

With the fresh interchange came a change in forward dynamics ... with a constant stream of fresh props .. the onus on meterage fell squarely in their lap .... (note that all 5 of our props made well in excess of 100m each last week) ... along with the wingers and centres increasing their hit-ups ... has drastically reduced both the number of hit-ups available to the 2nd rowers but also the need for them.

The role of the 2nd rower has evolved .... they are judged on other scales than metres.

 

[anthonyb1965]

@Sue .. like me, you may have to reassess your years of accumulated knowledge of rugby league .... in particular 2nd rowers ...

You criticise Frank for lack of metres but the following are the average metres per game this year by

Thompson ..83m
Siro ..70.5m
Gojetski ..57m

On those fiqures Frankie was a veritable running Forrest Gump.

A cursory glance at other teams clearly mirror the above fact that 2nd rowers are no longer big metre eaters ... very few are near 100m ... and yes .. there are glaring exceptions like Cordner and Hess, but they are the exceptions and used accordingly by their teams ....

With the fresh interchange came a change in forward dynamics ... with a constant stream of fresh props .. the onus on meterage fell squarely in their lap .... (note that all 5 of our props made well in excess of 100m each last week) ... along with the wingers and centres increasing their hit-ups ... has drastically reduced both the number of hit-ups available to the 2nd rowers but also the need for them.

The role of the 2nd rower has evolved .... they are judged on other scales than metres.

Exactly right mate, have a look at the 2017 season averages below. Only Boyd Cordner shines in the metres gained per game all the rest are around 100 metres and below.

 

[BOZO]

“

I agree, Frank is one of the big disappointments, he has the physique of a SBWtype player - if only

Came out at the beginning of the season about being related to Cahill and Asked him for advice. Cahill said something along the lines of ' give it your everything on the field, don't leave anything to regret'. I am still waiting

Frank is a big fellow. The trouble is he has a body like Tarzan and plays like Jane .

 

[Sue]

@Sue .. like me, you may have to reassess your years of accumulated knowledge of rugby league .... in particular 2nd rowers ...

You criticise Frank for lack of metres but the following are the average metres per game this year by

Thompson ..83m
Siro ..70.5m
Gojetski ..57m

On those fiqures Frankie was a veritable running Forrest Gump.

A cursory glance at other teams clearly mirror the above fact that 2nd rowers are no longer big metre eaters ... very few are near 100m ... and yes .. there are glaring exceptions like Cordner and Hess, but they are the exceptions and used accordingly by their teams ....

With the fresh interchange came a change in forward dynamics ... with a constant stream of fresh props .. the onus on meterage fell squarely in their lap .... (note that all 5 of our props made well in excess of 100m each last week) ... along with the wingers and centres increasing their hit-ups ... has drastically reduced both the number of hit-ups available to the 2nd rowers but also the need for them.

The role of the 2nd rower has evolved .... they are judged on other scales than metres.

Hi Woodsie

Mate I don’t judge them on metres alone at all. I was just bringing it up because so many people excuse his lack of metres with this decoy stuff which is plain silly as you don’t accumulate metres in the red zone.

I judge it on overall nvolvement, attitude and effect on the game using my old peepers. I understand what you are getting at but a bloke with his physique who has 4 or 5 runs a game , rarely scores meat pies and whose defence is adequate( green, Kelly and Frank has some nightmares last year on the left) and biggest asset is running a decoy doesn’t do it for me as an NRL starter in the back row.

Maybe not metres but number of runs needs to be higher as we are often working out of our end due to mistakes. Those sort of runs come solely off the back of guts and determination. No coach tells a big second rower to stay out of it coming off your line with nothing other than metres and a kick being the goal for the set.Those runs aren’t part of a game plan It’s simply who wants to put their hand up.Particularly in our case where I find it hard to ever discern a game plan. We just seem to be an ad hoc second phase run and hope team with very few players supporting the ball cartier.

I reckon he needs to bring more to the table with his obvious assets of speed and size. Let’s agree to disagree and begin our prayer schedule for Sunday.

Btw you could say the same about a lot of our boys at the moment so Franky ain’t on his own.

 

[Woodsie]

Hi Woodsie

Mate I don’t judge them on metres alone at all. I was just bringing it up because so many people excuse his lack of metres with this decoy stuff which is plain silly as you don’t accumulate metres in the red zone.

I judge it on involvement, attitude and effect on the game using my old peepers. I understand what you are getting at but a bloke with his physique who has 4 or 5 runs a game , rarely scores meat pies and whose defence is adequate( green, Kelly and Frank has some nightmares last year on the left) and biggest asset is running a decoy doesn’t do it for me as an NRL starter in the back row. I reckon he needs to bring more to the table with his obvious assets of speed and size. We will agree to disagree and begin our prayer schedule for Sunday.

I agree that I would like to see him do a lot more .... I am often conflicted as to wether his apparent lack of involvement is the teams style of play and patterns, or he doesn't go looking enough ... both are true ...

As to his defence .... I mark his scorecard a bit higher than you .... he was the standout most effective 2nd row tackler last year with the lowest missed tackles rate of 1.3 per game ....(compare to 5 per game GoJetski) ... I think the problem on the left edge last year was more to do with Green and Kelly .... if you re-watch that Storm game where Cronk made a goose of us, twice Frank was moving up and can be seen pointing to the man he wanted Green to take, only to have Green go absent.

The one thing above others that I do credit him with his keeping a good link and shape to our line ... as I said earlier .. last week the props made all the metres any team will ever need ... we had no shape or cohesion off the back of it to capitalise ..

Our line ... in my opinion ... just looks better set when he is in it .... would I swap him for Hess or Cordner ... in a heartbeat ... see ya Frank .... but given the troops we have ... he is my best option...